Imperial Red recipe

I am designing an all-grain beer kit to give my brother-in-law for Christmas. I am thinking an Imperial Red Ale will be good and so I have pulled together the following as a potential recipe. Before I start grinding grains I thought I would get whatever input I can from all of you.

The name of the beer in the Irish name for the original Irish Republican Army, IRA, Imperial Red Ale.

[size=+2]O'glaigh na hE'ireann (Imperial Red Ale)[/size]
[size=+1]14-C Imperial IPA[/size]



Size: 10.0 gal
Efficiency: 78.0%
Attenuation: 78.0%
Calories: 301.28 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.090 (1.070 - 1.090)
|========================#=======|
Terminal Gravity: 1.020 (1.010 - 1.020)
|=======================#========|
Color: 20.77 (8.0 - 15.0)
|================================|
Alcohol: 9.31% (7.5% - 10.0%)
|===================#============|
Bitterness: 96.2 (60.0 - 120.0)
|=================#==============|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
25.0 lb Standard 2-Row
3.0 lb White Table Sugar (Sucrose)
8.0 oz Crystal 45
8.0 oz Crystal 120
12.0 oz Pale Chocolate
8.0 oz Carafa Special® TYPE II
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 40.0 min
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 20.0 min
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
50.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - steeped after boil
3.0 ea WYeast 1056 American Ale

[size=+1]Schedule:[/size]
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 1524 m

00:03:00 Mash In - Liquor: 8.52 gal; Strike: 163.05 °F; Target: 148.0 °F
00:48:00 Saccrification Rest - Rest: 45.0 min; Final: 148.0 °F
01:28:00 Fly Sparge - Sparge Volume: 13.62 gal; Sparge Temperature: 168.0 °F; Runoff: 13.67 gal

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.1[/size]

Is it really that bad, or is everyone just speechless at its awesomeness?!!

I've never done all-grain, but it sure sounds delicious! I'm curious which grains give the deep red color to red ales?

Apparently we're all speechless. Maybe it's because you've decided to step out of the realm of RISs. This kinda looks like a super big version of Smithwick's, complete with extra hoppy goodness (yum). It could be good, but it also looks like it might be a bit dry for how big it is. I might be in the minority, but when I get a hankering for a red ale, it's usually for a mildly hopped, malt forward beer. Were I brewing it, I might replace half that sugar, and maybe a bit of the base malt, with some vienna and extra crystal, especially considering how hoppy it will be.

Now, if what you're looking for is more like a red tinged IIPA, with a bit of extra crystal sweetness, you're probably doing well. The good part is, it gets you a simpler grainbill as is, and it's not as expensive to put together. The color could be good, or it could be a bit dark, depending upon length and intensity of boil. I usually find a 16-17 on the software scale gets a good redish color. Your friend's boil may differ, though. Good luck!

the chocolate and the carafa, small amounts of roast grain can give nice ruby tones.

Thanks for the thought. I am going for the slightly sweeter Red IIPA. I think they are calling them San Diego Reds. I make my IIPAs really dry, expecting the sweetness coming from the alcohol to balance some of that dryness out. I was wondering about the color. I don't know what Nick's Keggle will do. This would definitely be too dark in my kettle. So maybe the thing to do is back off a few degrees and let it go at that. I had toyed with raising the mash temp up a few degrees, but there again I do not know how close my brother-in-law will come to the temperature and I want him to get in the "low" range.

If you do indeed want it a bit sweeter, I'd change things up a smidge. I've gone as high as 1.5lbs crystal in a 5 gallon, 1050 OG batch and not had it come out too sweet. Sweetness and body, yes, balanced by .6 IBU:GU for a medium malty-sweet taste. You have much more base malt, yes, but also more hops, too. Here's what I'd suggest, though I'm hardly the expert:

-Up the c45 to 1lb
-Drop the Pale chocolate to .5lb, or maybe less, to compensate and color correct.
-Add maybe 3lbs of Vienna or Munich, subbing for some sugar and some general base malt.
-Raise mash temp to 150, unless you think your friend is really going to overshoot by a lot. It may also be safer during a 45 minute mash, especially if a starch conversion test is not done.
-Dry yeast may make for an easier-to-gift present. Nothing to be refrigerated. Plus, US-05 is cheaper, so, why not?

I like the Vienna idea for sweetness and color. I plan on letting him worry about the yeast. Last time I did this he didn't brew the beer for a few months and the yeast ended up being a waste of money.

Here is an adapted recipe. I have dropped the sugar in exchange for the Vienna malt and kept the mash temp where it was. I have increased the mash to 60 minutes (were it should have been already). I also dropped the Pale Chocolate just a bit. I didn't change the crystals, but expect to get some additional character from the Vienna.

[size=+2]O'glaigh na hE'ireann (Imperial Red Ale)[/size]
[size=+1]14-C Imperial IPA[/size]



Size: 10.0 gal
Efficiency: 78.0%
Attenuation: 78.0%
Calories: 298.58 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.089 (1.070 - 1.090)
|=======================#========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.020 (1.010 - 1.020)
|=======================#========|
Color: 20.01 (8.0 - 15.0)
|================================|
Alcohol: 9.23% (7.5% - 10.0%)
|===================#============|
Bitterness: 96.2 (60.0 - 120.0)
|=================#==============|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
25.0 lb Standard 2-Row
5.0 lb German Vienna
8.0 oz Crystal 45
8.0 oz Crystal 120
8.0 oz Pale Chocolate
8.0 oz Carafa Special® TYPE II
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 40.0 min
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 20.0 min
35.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
50.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - steeped after boil
3.0 ea WYeast 1056 American Ale

[size=+1]Schedule:[/size]
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 1524 m

00:03:00 Mash In - Liquor: 10.0 gal; Strike: 163.05 °F; Target: 148.0 °F
01:03:00 Saccrification Rest - Rest: 60.0 min; Final: 148.0 °F
01:43:00 Fly Sparge - Sparge Volume: 16.0 gal; Sparge Temperature: 168.0 °F; Runoff: 16.06 gal

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.1[/size]

That looks like a great recipe! One minor question though: does your BIL also get 78% efficiency? I'm sure you can, but if you're worried about him hitting proper mash temps, maybe his conversion will be just average as well? I just didn't want you to overlook it.

Whoa. That's serious stuff. I would have kept the sugar to help with attenuation (I think Arrogant Bastard when I think of this style too- San Diego Red Ale indeed, and I always admire it's drinkability), but as you're the RIS guru, you know these big beers better than I do. What about dry hopping, especially as this thing might lose some hop aroma during it's lengthier conditioning period? Even just an ounce or so would help give it that freshness.

If I were to go so far as to suggest a dry hop, Tomahawk might be good.

Seriously, this looks delicious.

Edit: OK, now I'm wondering about the pale chocolate. Might swapping it out for more of your crystal 45 help get that caramel/toffee/crystal malt presence more firmly in the beer? That's something I look for in a red ale, but it's your recipe. Just saw that GoldTuborg said the same thing, so +1 to him.

OK, so add the sugar back in, bump up the crystal and assume lower efficiency. I want the pale chocolate for some toast tones to balance the sweeter caramel notes. My big concern is the balance between the alcohol sweetness and the crystal so it doesn't get too sweet. The Tomahawk character might not help this either, but they are what I have on hand at the moment. I thought of dry hopping, and I will have to see how much I have left-over.

Try number 3:

[size=+2]O'glaigh na hE'ireann (Imperial Red Ale)[/size]
[size=+1]14-C Imperial IPA[/size]



Size: 10.0 gal
Efficiency: 73.0%
Attenuation: 78.0%
Calories: 284.9 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.085 (1.070 - 1.090)
|====================#===========|
Terminal Gravity: 1.019 (1.010 - 1.020)
|======================#=========|
Color: 20.26 (8.0 - 15.0)
|================================|
Alcohol: 8.8% (7.5% - 10.0%)
|================#===============|
Bitterness: 90.7 (60.0 - 120.0)
|================#===============|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
20.0 lb Standard 2-Row
5.0 lb German Vienna
3.0 lb White Table Sugar (Sucrose)
16.0 oz Crystal 45
8.0 oz Crystal 120
8.0 oz Pale Chocolate
8.0 oz Carafa Special® TYPE II
33.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
33.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 40.0 min
33.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 20.0 min
33.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
50.0 g Tomahawk Hop (15.0%) - steeped after boil
3.0 ea WYeast 1056 American Ale

[size=+1]Schedule:[/size]
Ambient Air: 70.0 °F
Source Water: 60.0 °F
Elevation: 1524 m

00:03:00 Mash In - Liquor: 8.59 gal; Strike: 163.05 °F; Target: 148.0 °F
01:03:00 Saccrification Rest - Rest: 60.0 min; Final: 148.0 °F
01:43:00 Fly Sparge - Sparge Volume: 13.75 gal; Sparge Temperature: 168.0 °F; Runoff: 13.8 gal

[size=-1]Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.1[/size]

Brewpastor said:

OK, so add the sugar back in, bump up the crystal and assume lower efficiency. I want the pale chocolate for some toast tones to balance the sweeter caramel notes. My big concern is the balance between the alcohol sweetness and the crystal so it doesn't get too sweet. The Tomahawk character might not help this either, but they are what I have on hand at the moment. I thought of dry hopping, and I will have to see how much I have left-over.

Click to expand...

That all makes sense. Pale chocolate is tasty stuff. The sugar should take a little of the malt sweetness out, too, but certainly the roastiness will a) be delicious and b) help balance out what will still be a fairly sweet beer.

If I understand the process correctly, I believe if you keep the simple sugars to 8-10 percent and mash around 148-149 for 60 to 75 minuntes you will get a nice dry beer with the balanced sweetness as mashing lower temp give you a more fermentable beer that will attenuate out to 1.010 - 1.012. That's what I do for my IIPA recipe and it works out well. The Imperial red recipe looks nice, I am a big fan of Tomahawk hops!! Thanks for sharing.

Eastside

elkdog said:

That all makes sense. Pale chocolate is tasty stuff. The sugar should take a little of the malt sweetness out, too, but certainly the roastiness will a) be delicious and b) help balance out what will still be a fairly sweet beer.

Click to expand...

Thats my story and I am sticking to it! :cross:

At least that is what I am aiming for...

Eastside Brewer said:

If I understand the process correctly, I believe if you keep the simple sugars to 8-10 percent and mash around 148-149 for 60 to 75 minuntes you will get a nice dry beer with the balanced sweetness as mashing lower temp give you a more fermentable beer that will attenuate out to 1.010 - 1.012. That's what I do for my IIPA recipe and it works out well. The Imperial red recipe looks nice, I am a big fan of Tomahawk hops!! Thanks for sharing.

Eastside

Click to expand...

Cool. I do the low mash temp/sugar addition in my IIPAs, so I figured it would be good here. I have not made an Imperial Red but drink them more often then not when I am out and they are available.

Yeah, keeping the sugar probably is a good idea. It will give you the good flavors from the specialty malts but keep the body right at the medium level, so there's no risk of something too big to drink much of (this is near the same OG and ratio of grain:sugar as my triple recipe, which is frighteningly easy to down too many of). This one might be dangerous!

I have not used Carafa II but my friend has and I remember he thought that it would only add color and not much to flavor profile. WRONG, his comment to me was that a little goes a long way, just a thought to consider. Let us know how this recipe turns out, I am eager to brew one myself next month.

Eastside

That looks really good! I'm a fan of Columbus hops, so I'm thinking that should be a very tasty beer.

Eastside Brewer said:

I have not used Carafa II but my friend has and I remember he thought that it would only add color and not much to flavor profile. WRONG, his comment to me was that a little goes a long way, just a thought to consider. Let us know how this recipe turns out, I am eager to brew one myself next month.

Eastside

Click to expand...

I assume you know that there are two variations of Carafa II. On is de-bittered/dehusked and the other is not. I plan on using the de-bittered. I am assuming it will bring a flavor to the beer but not in a way the same amount of say Black Malt would.

Thanks for the heads up!

Brewpastor said:

I assume you know that there are two variations of Carafa II. On is de-bittered/dehusked and the other is not. I plan on using the de-bittered. I am assuming it will bring a flavor to the beer but not in a way the same amount of say Black Malt would.

Thanks for the heads up!

Click to expand...

Yes debittered/dehusked. I think he was hoping to attain color only and no flavor but flavor was way more than he anticipated. Like I said, I have not used it, but i do know what it is. I guess most new recipes are trial and error anyway but I just thought I would mention his experience. Like I said earlier, I really do want to brew an Imperial Red so I am very interested to see how your recipe comes out.

Much respect,

Eastside Brewer

BP, I think that looks awesome. I use pale chocolate in my regular Amber Ale and I love the flavor. And CTZ hops are one of my favorites. The sugar will keep it dry and lighter for the size. That should be one awesome beer. I might have to do something like this sometime.

-edit-

Not counting the sugar, or hops, it's almost a direct larger version of my Amber Ale. Anyone want to check out a tried and true awesome recipe but at a 1.060 OG, find the amber ale recipe in my sig with all the recipes or just click here.

i like your recipe overall, but I think having both carafa and pale chocolate are gonna take you closer to brown ale then red. 20 SRM is a bit beyond red. i would just use the pale chocolate, and hold off on the carafa. This would get you around 17 SRM, which is a deep red hue. Also, I made an imperial red that turned out really nicely and instead of subbing a big chunk of my base malt for vienna or munich, i used melanoidin. It really pumps up the malt profile, lends a nice reddish hue to the beer, and gives you body and head retention much like carapils. As a tweak to your recipe, heres how I would go

23lbs 2-row
2lb Melanoidin
1lb crystal 45
.5lb crystal 120
.5lb pale chocolate
3lb sugar

good luck either way.