Clone SN Tumbler...Help!

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I actually used the second runnings from my stout with this hop bill. I didn't have any smoked malt to add but should be a tasty brown ale!
 
Not carbed yet, but I'm cold crashing mine. The hydro sample I drank 2 days ago tasted exactly like I remember Tumbler tasting at the bar. Brown ale roast on top of an ESB base is how it strikes me. Gimme a week and hopefully I'll have it crashed, kegged, carbed and compared to a real Tumbler.

Weird thing is that my version finished kinda high: 1.018-1.019. The sample tastes right on and it doesn't seem overly sweet, so I'm going to keg it.

Waiting:drunk: in suspense, for results and a recipe. :mug:
 
Here's recipe, slightly tweaked from what I had posted earlier in thread:

5.25 gallons
8.5 lbs Pale Malt (Weyermans)
1.0 lbs Smoked malt (Weyermans, very important!)
1.0 lbs British Crystal 50-60L
6.0 oz Pale Chocolate Malt - cold steeped day before
1.5oz Challenger @ 60
1.0oz Challenger @ 10
1.0oz EKG @ 10
Fermentis S-04
Mash at 155F, ferment at 65F.

I screwed up my mash temps, started at 160F by accident for a few minutes. That might account for my higher final gravity (1.018-1.019).

Pale Chocolate was cold steeped in about a quart or so of RO water. Drained that through a strainer and added liquid to the boil.

I did the beer as a No Chill. I left out the 10 minute hops until I was ready to pitch yeast. I steeped the hops for 10 minutes in some nearly boiling wort that I threw into a pot after I moved the beer from the No Chill cube into the fermenter. Curious to see how the hop aroma/flavor come through in the final product. I'll report back by next week, hopefully.
 
I want to thank everyone who's posted in this thread, as this was a beer I really wanted to try. I had to do some things differently with the ingredients I had (and no LHBS). Brewed yesterday, I'll let you know how it is when I know:

10 gal, expected 70% efficiency and OG of 1.058

19 lb + 1 oz Canadian pale
1 lb crystal 40
1 lb crystal 75
1 lb chocolate
3 oz peated (Simpsons)
mashed 3lb:1gal @ 156 for 95 minutes (batch sparge)

1.25 oz Magnum (12.5%) boiled ~90 min
2 oz Willamette (4.8%) at 15 minutes
2 oz Willamette at 9 minutes
Gives about 38 IBUs
Split into 2 carboys, one with Notty, the other S-05.

My efficiency was just about dead-on but over-boiled to what looks like 9 gallons at 1.063. I think I'll dilute it at bottling since I'm trying to approximate Tumbler.

I'm not too worried about the Willamettes -- it'll be different from Challenger/EKG, but Willamette fits the style well. The peated malt? Well, that might be risky, but it didn't seem too strong during the mash. I can name it Bog Tumbler if I have to.
 
Update time:

Comments on this beer include: "really good", "tastes just like a Tumbler" and "awesome."

I dont have a Tumbler beside me to compare too, but it seems to be really close to how I remember the Tumbler tasting. The beer is a nice, complex brown ale with a roasty character from the Pale Chocolate.

And don't let the smoked malt scare you off. NO ONE has drank any and picked it out. Everyone is surprised when I say it's in there, but after you realize that, you can kind of make it out in the background. I think it adds a nice complexity to the beer.
 
I kegged my attempt yesterday (receipe below):

It needs to carbonate still, so too early to compare. Color is definitely off as its much lighter than Tumbler. It tasted amazing though. May have under done the smoke, really can't detect it at all (yet).

I am heading out of town on business, it should be carbed when I return later this week. standby.

Johnny

I brewed this last week:

12 gallon batch:

21.3# Hugh Baird
1.0# Smoked Malt
2.5# Crystal 10L
1.7# Choc. Malt 200L

Don't know what happened, but somehow got home from the brew store with Pale Choc Malt??? My SRM looked more like 15 going into the kettle. oh well, it will still be beer and I bet I'll drink it:rockin:

Challenger/Goldings additions as previously described in this thread.

OG=1.056. Pitched WLP-001 and is currently fermenting at 68F.

I always let my ales go 30 days, so I should be kegging around 12/7. Standby.

:mug:
JR
 
I've brewed this twice now, and it's quite close. It's not a true "clone" because I didn't use correct hops. I didn't have Challenger or Yakima Goldings, but Pearle and Northern Brewer are closeish to Challenger so I subbed in a mix of the two as finishing hops. Goldings I replaced with Willamette.

The first brew I toasted a pound of crushed malt for 20m at 350- that beer was very good, but it was more roasty and smoky than Tumbler. The second time I didn't toast, and it came out just about right but still slightly more smoky. Color is quite close, bitterness is right, and the hop profile is slightly overstated (but imho even better!), a little less spicy and a little more herbal. I'll post a picture next time I open one.


Here's what I did:

5.5 gallon batch

Grain:
8.00 lb 2-Row Pale Malt (78.05%)
1.00 lb Caramel-40 (9.76 %)
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (7.32 %)
0.50 lb Weyerman Smoked Malt (4.88 %)

Mash in: 14.00 qt of water at 165 F to hit 154 F for 60 minutes
Sparge: 17.00 qt of water at 185 F to hit 170 F for 10 minutes

Run off 6.5 gallons at 1.043
60 minute boil to get 5.5 gallons at 1.052

Hops:
60 minutes: 0.50 oz Northern Brewer [12.50 %] (20.6 IBU)
10 minutes: 1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (6.6 IBU)
0.50 oz Pearle [8.40 %] (5.0 IBU)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [12.50 %] (7.5 IBU)

Danstar Nottingham
 
Took my keg to another party last night and folks went nuts over it. This is a seriously good beer, i just cant seem to find any real Tumbler to compare it to. If you like browns, porters, or brown porters, this beer is for you. I'm calling it a Brown Porter if anyone asks for the style.

FYI - I cold steeped the Pale Chocolate and threw the liquid into the No Chill tank when I transfered from the kettle. Since it was never boiled, I think it gives a smoother roast character.

Also, the lacing on this beer is fantastic. Sticky white bands all down your glass as you are drinking.
 
Finally found some real Tumbler in bottles to compare mine too, but I do think Tumbler fresh on draft is better than in the bottles...

SN Tumbler: less toasty, more hoppy than mine. Color was identical, but there's was a bit clearer. Theirs tastes slightly sweeter, which surprised me because I used what I would assume would be a slightly less attentive yeast (s-04). The beers were very similar, but mine wasn't quite a clone. Mine was more of a brown or brown porter while the real Tumbler strikes me as a brown/esb hybrid.

And it might be ugly baby syndrome, but I prefer mine :)
 
Finally my results: I can't say its a clone because I definitely missed the color. Next time I will use Cry 30-40L (instead of 10L). Kinda of a pale brown. But damn it is good and taste pretty spot on to my lips. I agree with ghpeel, I think SN's has a bit more hop flavor.

But without a doubt, the best Brown I have ever brewed! Everyone who has tried it loves it!

Carry on folks!

:mug:

I kegged my attempt yesterday (receipe below):

It needs to carbonate still, so too early to compare. Color is definitely off as its much lighter than Tumbler. It tasted amazing though. May have under done the smoke, really can't detect it at all (yet).

I am heading out of town on business, it should be carbed when I return later this week. standby.

Johnny
 
Finally my results: I can't say its a clone because I definitely missed the color. Next time I will use Cry 30-40L (instead of 10L).

Indeed. The crystal 10 seemed weird to me when I read it in the original recipe, so I subbed British Medium Crystal (50-60). I think a big influence on color is the darkness of the chocolate malt as well. I used Pale Chocolate, but a darker crystal, and mine came out identical in color (if not in clarity) to the bottle of real Tumbler.

This beer has made me like brown ales again. It's really, REALLY good. :ban:
 
Update on my version (recipe on last page):

I hung onto a 12 pack of the real thing to do some taste-testing and I think it's really close -- really surprisingly close. This is the Notty version, in bottles 14 days at last tasting, so it's very early.

I added about 1/2 gal at bottling which should drop the OG to around 1.057. FG was low at 1.014 with the bottling sugar mixed in.

I think the hop flavor is right on, but I'm terrible at differentiating hop flavors, so take that fwiw. There's so much else going on in this beer that I'd never be able to tell one mild variety from another.

Everything else (except the smoke, see below) -- malt/bitter balance, color, roast level -- is very close, even at just two weeks. It cleaned up quite fast. If that has anything to do with the recipe and not just yeast luck, this could be a good rapid turn around recipe.

Right now, the smoke is stronger in mine (but just barely, and if it mellows with time at all it will be right on) and maybe a little different in kind. Even in very small quantities the peated malt couldn't shake its aggressive, slightly nasty smoke flavor. It's very slight -- just a tough o' nasty -- and while it might be the reason this beer is so damn good, I'm guessing it would have been better with much more regular smoke.
 
Update on my attempt at this: After the proper passage of time, this has been a real winner -- both really broad appeal at parties and one of my favorites. That potency of the peated malt did fade a lot, which is on balance a good thing, since it was kind of unpleasant. Still wouldn't use it again, though; the beer is great now but doesn't really have the smoke of the real thing.
 
I just tried to brew a tumbler clone. This is the recipe I used.

5.5 gallon recipe

10lbs Domestic 2-row
0.75lbs crystal 80L
0.50lbs Chocolate malt (350L)
0.50lbs Smoked malt

After trying it, it's definitely got too much chocolate character. My guess is that they either used pale chocolate or used less of regular chocolate. Unfortunately, my LHBS doesn't have pale chocolate malt. The smoke character is pretty nice with 0.5lbs so I'm sticking with it. It's subtle but I remember Tumble being very light on smoke as well. I'm thinking my next tweak for this recipe will be as follows.

10 lbs Domestic 2-row
1.00 lbs crystal 80L
0.25 lbs Chocolate malt (350L)
0.50 lbs Smoked malt

I've never used pale chocolate so I don't know how different it would be to used 0.5 lbs of it versus 0.25 lbs of regular chocolate. Does anybody have any information which type of chocolate malt SN uses?
 
Its that time of year!!

I have to brew this, any updated recipes?

I'm not a fan of the goldings/kent goldings... I don't taste it in there, leaning towards the williamette.
 
Its that time of year!!

I have to brew this, any updated recipes?

I'm not a fan of the goldings/kent goldings... I don't taste it in there, leaning towards the williamette.

I actually never got around to brewing an attempt at a clone, but I did brew a brown ale loosely based on my taste for tumbler. I used:

10 Marris Otter
.25 chocolate
.25 roast barley
.5 crystal 80 (might have been 120 but I think 80)
.5 Carapils

All Willamette hops, pacman yeast at 64

Not a clone, but it was a great brown ale and I felt with a little smokiness it would have come close. I would try this again going for a tumbler clone, but my LHBS doesn't have any smoked malt :(

And I LOVED the all Willamette hop schedule...so much I used it yesterday on a stout I have been dreaming up!
 
Smoked malt potential is roughly similar to 2-row. It's just smoked pale malt, after all.

DO NOT use peated malt unless you know what you're doing. 4oz in this beer will make it taste like ash-coated ham. Cherrywood malt is pretty potent too, but you'll be fine as long as you keep the quantities low.
 
To echo other points in this thread, do NOT use peated or Cherrywood smoked malt. The smoke flavor in the Tumbler is very, very faint. Maybe use 1-2oz of the smoked only if you can't get any Weyerman Smoked malt, which is very low intensity.

I avoided brown ales for a while after burning out on them. After making the Tumbler clone last fall (recipe in this thread), I've made 2 more and can't wait to make my next one. This beer kicked my enjoyment of browns back up. My last brown used CaraBrown malt and it was delicious, I highly recommend that stuff.
 
My Willamette schedule was 2 oz 4.7% AA at 60 minutes, and 1 oz 4.7% AA at 10 minutes. I was shooting for 36 IBU which is VERY close to tumbler.
 
To echo other points in this thread, do NOT use peated or Cherrywood smoked malt. The smoke flavor in the Tumbler is very, very faint. Maybe use 1-2oz of the smoked only if you can't get any Weyerman Smoked malt, which is very low intensity.

Noted. Even though I really was intrigued by it, I might have to make a scottish ale.... I tend to overdo things, so its probably really good you are telling me this!:mug:



My Willamette schedule was 2 oz 4.7% AA at 60 minutes, and 1 oz 4.7% AA at 10 minutes. I was shooting for 36 IBU which is VERY close to tumbler.

AH! So you went all willamette, interesting. Thank you!
 
My keg just carbed up and I have to say this stuff is delicious. There is 2 different recipes floating around and I kinda of combined them. I dont have the recipe I used in front of me but I know I used .75 lb of smoked malt and a split of chocolate malt and pale chocolate malt. The smoke is noticable but will fade over time. Mine came out a little darker as well. If anyone is interested I can post the recipe when I get home.
 
To echo other points in this thread, do NOT use peated or Cherrywood smoked malt. The smoke flavor in the Tumbler is very, very faint. Maybe use 1-2oz of the smoked only if you can't get any Weyerman Smoked malt, which is very low intensity.

I avoided brown ales for a while after burning out on them. After making the Tumbler clone last fall (recipe in this thread), I've made 2 more and can't wait to make my next one. This beer kicked my enjoyment of browns back up. My last brown used CaraBrown malt and it was delicious, I highly recommend that stuff.

I just tried Tumbler for the first time yesterday and I think I found my fall beer. Could you post your final recipe on this beer? I'd appreciate it.

Rick
 
My keg just carbed up and I have to say this stuff is delicious. There is 2 different recipes floating around and I kinda of combined them. I dont have the recipe I used in front of me but I know I used .75 lb of smoked malt and a split of chocolate malt and pale chocolate malt. The smoke is noticable but will fade over time. Mine came out a little darker as well. If anyone is interested I can post the recipe when I get home.

Can you post your recipe?
 
Just last weekend kegged my attempt at a clone. While kegging it smelled very similar, didn't sample.
Will report back in about a week. Saved one Tumbler to do a side by side tasting.

7 gallon boil
5.5 gallon batch

5 Lb 10 oz Briess Golden Lt DME
1 lb Caramel 40L
12 oz Chocolate Malt
6 oz Briess Smoked Malt

.9 oz Challenger 60 mins
.6 oz Challenger 10 mins
1.0 oz Goldings, East Kent

Safale US05

Estimated
SRM 25
IBU 36.5
ABV 5.3 %
 
Just discovered that NB's 'Emma's Brown Ale' with 4 oz. cherrywood smoked malt is a dead ringer for SN Tumbler. I'm drinking both now -- one fresh from the liquor store, one 7 days after bottling (3 weeks in the primary) -- and they're nearly identical. Freakily identical, in fact. Fermented with Safale-05 @ 62F for 2 weeks, ramped to 70F for a week.

The only difference is that my version of Emma's Brown has a bit more acidic "pop". My mash pH for Emma's Brown was around 5.2 at room temp (I was aiming for 5.3, but added a bit too much phosphoric acid during the mash). But they're essentially clones of each other. Mouthfeel is the same, hop level (very minimal) is the same. I stumbled into this -- it wasn't planned -- but I tasted Tumber about a month ago, detected the smoked malt right away, and a few days later made Emma's Brown with the only deviation as the 4oz. (2% of total grist) of cherrywood smoked malt. I expect it to be even closer after another couple weeks in the bottle. Used charcoal filtered Chicago/Lake Michigan water with a bit of gypsum and CaCl2 -- 94 Cl / 80 SO4 / 14 Mg / 18 Na / 96 Ca. Finished beer pH: 4.15.
 
Just discovered that NB's 'Emma's Brown Ale' with 4 oz. cherrywood smoked malt is a dead ringer for SN Tumbler. I'm drinking both now -- one fresh from the liquor store, one 7 days after bottling (3 weeks in the primary) -- and they're nearly identical. Freakily identical, in fact. Fermented with Safale-05 @ 62F for 2 weeks, ramped to 70F for a week.

The only difference is that my version of Emma's Brown has a bit more acidic "pop". My mash pH for Emma's Brown was around 5.2 at room temp (I was aiming for 5.3, but added a bit too much phosphoric acid during the mash). But they're essentially clones of each other. Mouthfeel is the same, hop level (very minimal) is the same. I stumbled into this -- it wasn't planned -- but I tasted Tumber about a month ago, detected the smoked malt right away, and a few days later made Emma's Brown with the only deviation as the 4oz. (2% of total grist) of cherrywood smoked malt. I expect it to be even closer after another couple weeks in the bottle. Used charcoal filtered Chicago/Lake Michigan water with a bit of gypsum and CaCl2 -- 94 Cl / 80 SO4 / 14 Mg / 18 Na / 96 Ca. Finished beer pH: 4.15.

Interesting! I wanted to use that cherrywood smoked... and I can help a good cause by supporting Emma... and drink beer....Sounds like a winner!

I already ordered and received ingredients (Everything except 2 row and yeast...). I'm gonna save it for a porter, and get two of the NBs kits. Hell, they are only $20 a kit!!
 
If I'd make Emma's again with the smoked malt, I'd probably drop the cherrywood down a bit -- maybe 2.0-2.5oz instead of 4oz (essentially using the 1% SN is using, I guess).

The smoked malt in Tumbler (to my palette, at least) is in the background -- but detectable. It seems to me that the trick with cloning this is dialing in the smoked malt. My version of Tumbler (i.e., Emma's Brown) has the smoked malt just slightly more forward than Tumbler. It's definitely in the ballpark, though -- and it might be that my palette is sensitive to the cherrywood malt now that I've used it in several brews in a row. (In fact, it was Tumbler that started me on my own smoked malt brews over the past month.)

I made an Amber with Special Roast and cherrywood (16oz Special, 8oz cherrywood, 2oz choc, plus base malt and a bit of crystal) -- and it's got a wicked good smoked bread taste (IMHO). The smoked malt is definitely up front, though, but not (IMHO) overpowering. But one person who tried it said all she could taste was smoked malt -- no bready taste or hops.

The cherrywood is definitely potent stuff -- but I suspect once you've calibrated your palette to detect it, you can get away with just a bit to give the beer complexity while not overpowering the other malts. The chloride level in the water is also another thing I probably need to zero in on. I tend to favor malty over hoppy -- or hoppy beers with a strong malt presence -- so I tend to go a bit heavy on the chloride (i.e. I nearly always aim for 85-100ppm Cl for a normal mash -- and then maybe 80-130ppm of SO4 depending on the hop level I'm looking for). I suspect if I scaled the CaCl2 back a bit, S04 up a bit, the smoked malt might background even more.

BTW -- I definitely disagree with ghpeel's recommendation to not use cherrywood. To me, the smoked taste in Tumbler is identical to cherrywood. I agree, however, with his recommendation to avoid peat smoked malt. Definitely not a peaty flavor (and while I personally love the peated malt taste, several others do not like peat at all. It's a tough sell, I've discovered.)
 
If I'd make Emma's again with the smoked malt, I'd probably drop the cherrywood down a bit -- maybe 2.0-2.5oz instead of 4oz (essentially using the 1% SN is using, I guess).

The smoked malt in Tumbler (to my palette, at least) is in the background -- but detectable. It seems to me that the trick with cloning this is dialing in the smoked malt. My version of Tumbler (i.e., Emma's Brown) has the smoked malt just slightly more forward than Tumbler. It's definitely in the ballpark, though -- and it might be that my palette is sensitive to the cherrywood malt now that I've used it in several brews in a row. (In fact, it was Tumbler that started me on my own smoked malt brews over the past month.)

I made an Amber with Special Roast and cherrywood (16oz Special, 8oz cherrywood, 2oz choc, plus base malt and a bit of crystal) -- and it's got a wicked good smoked bread taste (IMHO). The smoked malt is definitely up front, though, but not (IMHO) overpowering. But one person who tried it said all she could taste was smoked malt -- no bready taste or hops.

The cherrywood is definitely potent stuff -- but I suspect once you've calibrated your palette to detect it, you can get away with just a bit to give the beer complexity while not overpowering the other malts. The chloride level in the water is also another thing I probably need to zero in on. I tend to favor malty over hoppy -- or hoppy beers with a strong malt presence -- so I tend to go a bit heavy on the chloride (i.e. I nearly always aim for 85-100ppm Cl for a normal mash -- and then maybe 80-130ppm of SO4 depending on the hop level I'm looking for). I suspect if I scaled the CaCl2 back a bit, S04 up a bit, the smoked malt might background even more.

BTW -- I definitely disagree with ghpeel's recommendation to not use cherrywood. To me, the smoked taste in Tumbler is identical to cherrywood. I agree, however, with his recommendation to avoid peat smoked malt. Definitely not a peaty flavor (and while I personally love the peated malt taste, several others do not like peat at all. It's a tough sell, I've discovered.)

What yeast did you go with? I was gonna pick up some 1275, but I was wondering if something cleaner like a 1056 would be better.
 
Two packs Safale-05. 62F for two weeks, ramp to 70F for one week. My standard ferm profile for 99% of all my beers.

Unless I'm making a Belgian or a hefe, I avoid all liquid yeasts. (Not worth the effort, never seem as reliable as Safale-05 -- pretty much the only yeast I use.)
 
Two packs Safale-05. 62F for two weeks, ramp to 70F for one week. My standard ferm profile for 99% of all my beers.

Unless I'm making a Belgian or a hefe, I avoid all liquid yeasts. (Not worth the effort, never seem as reliable as Safale-05 -- pretty much the only yeast I use.)

That is actually perfect, thank you!
 
Can you post your recipe?

A little late sorry about that.

8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt
0.25 lb pale chocolate malt
0.75 lb Smoked Malt

WLP001 or Wyeast1056

Sorry I dont have the hops scheduling in front of me.
 
A little late sorry about that.

8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt
0.25 lb pale chocolate malt
0.75 lb Smoked Malt

WLP001 or Wyeast1056

Sorry I dont have the hops scheduling in front of me.

Thats actually pretty close to Emma's: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-EmmasAle.pdf NB's crystal is a tad...well a lot darker (180-250 L) I need to convert that to SRM, Beersmith is throwing off my color.

I'm doing a 10g batch, using 4oz Cheerrywood is giving me 1.33%.... Which is close to SN's 1%... I'm excited about it, and you can't beat the price!!
 
Just tried mine side by side with a Tumbler tonight. Color was pretty spon on and tasted very close. Mine had a little more chocolate it seemed. Mine was lacking a little carbonation since only carbing for about 6 days. Very happy with this one.
 
Thats actually pretty close to Emma's: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-EmmasAle.pdf NB's crystal is a tad...well a lot darker (180-250 L) I need to convert that to SRM, Beersmith is throwing off my color.

I'm doing a 10g batch, using 4oz Cheerrywood is giving me 1.33%.... Which is close to SN's 1%... I'm excited about it, and you can't beat the price!!

Yeah mine was not a direct clone but man did it turn out awesome. Beautiful head that has nice lacing. Def a house staple. If I wanted to try and get it closer to a clone it I would go with .5 lb of smoked malt and knock the chocolate down to .25 lbs to be even with the pale chocolate. I feel that would get you really close. But as they say "Why fix something that isn't broken"

Great thread that turned out a fantastic beer!!! :mug:
 
Brewed Emma's today with the smoked malt. I used only 3.5oz for a 10 gal batch which made it exactly 1%.

Tasted like a beer-cappuccino, I could barely taste the smoke. I'm assuming it will come out after fermentation. I'm excited!!!!
 
Just another update, krausen has almost completely fallen, I was impatient but I took a sample anyway knowing its not ready yet... but holy jebus is it god.


I can taste the chocolate and the smoke and neither is anywhere near overpowering. 1% of the cherrywood is where its at. I did make one deviation, I had 0.5oz of glacier left since I did a double batch, I tossed that in at flame out. I can tell already even though its not carbed the bitterness is going to be spot on.

Good call with the Emmas!
 
I definitely disagree with ghpeel's recommendation to not use cherrywood. To me, the smoked taste in Tumbler is identical to cherrywood.

Yeah I kinda misspoke. I just meant if you are going to follow a recipe that calls for, say, 1 pound of Weyerman Smoked Malt, then do NOT substitute 1 pound of cherrywood or peated malt if you can't get Weyerman's. You'll need much less of those malts to acheive the same smokiness of 1 pound of the Weyerman stuff, that's what I was trying to say.

I keep hearing good things about the cherrywood (the peated not so much) so I might try it next time instead of the Weyerman.

I love this beer!! I wish I had one on tap now! :tank:
 
I went ahead and kegged one carboy, I'm going to let the other age another week. Forced carbed it and drinking one now.....

It is incredible beer! The chocolate and smoke is dead on, the bitterness is a tad off, if anything its not bitter enough. I should have used all the bittering hops even though Emma's didn't call for it.

I'd say up the IBUs a tad, my 10 gal Emma's gave me 25.6 IBU, I'd try to bring it up over 30. But with the 1% on the cherrywood and Emma's gains and we have a tumbler!

EDIT: The head on this is incredible, even the lacing is wonderful! Its almost stout head like!!
 
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