My brewstand design

Ive been wanting to upgrade to 10 gallons and make a stand. i got the idea from the guy on here who built one from the angles from mcmastercarr, which seems affordable to me and easy. i already have the mash tun and just bought (2) kegs with the tops cut out and they have welded threaded fittings.

so here are my quick plans and price list. for now i am going to use tubing to barb connections, seems cheap simple and easy.

i am an architect so drawings up plans is a snap, and revit is fun to model 3D.

any input would be helpful.

looks great to me, I cant offer any criticism. I cant wait to see more of those 'erector set' stands come up.

Do you plan on painting it? or just leaving it as is?

yeah im gonna paint it with some header paint or something

I would suggest the following:

1. Lower the height of the stand as much as possible. This allows a better view into the vessels, makes filling them easier, makes emptying spend grain easier and finally, there's not good reason to make the stand tall except maybe to impress the neighbors or something. A shorter stand will have a lower center of gravity and it will be inherently safer, but that's really more of an incidental benefit.
2. Use different burners. The Banjo's are too hot. This would be better: http://www.agrisupply.com/burner-cast-low-presure-multi-hole-/p/40282/cn/5400000/
with this variable pressure regulator: http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=64640
3. The cooler will melt if you run burners on either side of it as shown and they will melt in milliseconds if you use the Banjo burners. The top rail will get very hot when the burners are in operation.
4. Use larger hoses. I would suggest using at least 5/8" ID extra thick walled tubing throughout. Make this change now and you won't need to replace the smaller hose and all of the connectors later on.
5. Use gate valves in lieu of ball valves wherever precise flow control is needed. Ball valve are fine for full on or full off, but not so hot for flow control.
6. Use Digital thermocouple thermometers and forget the bi-metal type dial thermometers. Trust me on this one.
7. Consider not building a monolithic stand at all. Instead, consider building it in a modular form using two or maybe three separate modules. This would allow you to move the cooler MT module away from the burner modules so it would not be affected by the heat. You could build the modules in a way that they could easily be connected together when and if desired. A modular stand is also easier to move and store. Some of the stands I have seen require a forklift to move and must weigh about the same as a Tundra. Design it as a good minimalist architect would.
8. Your basic setup appears to be intended for straight forward batch sparging only. If you ever plan to do step mashes, you may want to consider automating the burners and making it a RIMS or HERMS type rig.

Catt22 you make some good points. ive also been thinking about just buying 2 banjo burner stands and not building the rig. i was afraid the cooler would be a problem, unless i decide to get another keg to mash in. yeah i just batch sparge.

You'll be sorry if you buy the banjo burners. Those things are way too hot and not very fuel efficient. You'll need to use multiple heat shields to keep from melting the plastic off of the valve handles, prevent the heat from destroying any dial thermometers mounted on the kettle, and to protect hoses and connection fittings. I just helped a friend brew this past weekend and he uses a banjo on his boil kettle burner. It was difficult to keep the flame low enough to avoid a boil over without it blowing out entirely. He forgot to shield his dial thermometer and the heat blew out the glass face. the plastic melted off the handle of his fancy three piece SS ball valve and almost melted a hose he had connected to the kettle. He removed the hose just in time to save it from melting too. A better choice for burners would be the Bayou Classic SQ-14. I have one and I think it is just the right size for the kettles we typically use and has more than enough power to get the job done. They are also easy on fuel and can be easily adjusted from a very low flame level to very high and anything in between. IMO you could build a small platform for the HLT and buy two SQ-14 burners and you'd be good to go. I use something similar to that, but with an elevated HLT cooler for fly sparging on my semi-automatic RIMS. I've mounted a gas solenoid valve directly on the burner stand controlled by a Johnson A419 and ignited by a standing pilot. Essentially, it operates like a modular Brutus clone. The pump is simply mounted vertically on a small portable base which swivels for easy positioning of hoses for the various hookups to the chiller, MT, kettles etc. The stand for the elevated HLT also functions as a hose rack, lighting platform (for brewing after dark). I have garden hose hangers mounted to each side. One side for storing the transfer hoses and the other side for 25 ft of potable water hose. I have a carbon block water filter mounted on the back side with a bypass plumbed so I have a choice of direct high volume non-filtered water or the slower filtered brewing water. I also have a power strip mounted which provides multiple outlets for the pump, Johnson conroller, lighting and a timer for the bucket heater in the HLT. The platform is about 5-5" tall with a shelf mounted half way up. This shelf is ideal for holding the common accessories like a timer, refractometer, stirring spoons, measuring spoons and other miscellaneous gear along with my tackle box of stuff. When not in use, the pump and one burner fits on the bottom shelf. The middle shelf holds the second burner and the tackle box sits on top of that. I leave the HLT on the top shelf all the time except when moving or transporting the platform. Oh yeah, I have the mash rake mounted on the side of the tower platform using mop holder spring type clamp thingy. I have a few hooks for other things like the BBQ lighter etc. It only takes minutes to set up for use and the storage footprint in only 2 ft X 2 ft. The platform tower is constructed primarily of 1 X 4, 1 X 3, a few 2 X 3's and some 1/4" plywood for the shelves. The whole thing weighs less than 50 lbs and I can transport it on the roof rack of my SUV. I used some inverted carriage bolts to make leveling feet for it and mounted some caster type wheels to the back side so that it will roll when I tilt it down and the wheels contact the ground. A handle near the top makes it very easy to move. I can load and unload it from the roof rack without additional manpower. I designed it to be lightweight, yet strong. It is strong enough and stable enough that I can stand securely and upright on the top platform. The corner uprights were made with one 1X3 and one 1X4 butted together and glued lengthwise to form an "L" shape. This provided plenty of strength and considerable weight savings vs using 2X4 or 4X4 lumber. It was also very cheap to build as the 1X3 and 1X4 lumber I used was the lowest grade cheap pine lath. I just picked through the pile at HD to get some decent sticks. Clamping and gluing the uprights together worked like stiff backing for each and straightened out any natural curvature in the cheap lumber. Some auto body filler, a little sanding and a couple of coats of house paint made it look quite nice. Don't overlook using wood for this sort project and remember that lumber is available in sizes other than just 2X4's & 4X4's, but you already knew that I am sure as you mentioned you were an architect.

what he said....

surreal_trip said:

what he said....

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Well that's surprising! I was fully expecting an argument from the loyal banjoists. I must admit that they are very appealing at first glance and it's much the same with the 23 multi-jet wok burners, but after using either type the enchantment rapidly fades. They'd have to pry my cold and sticky fingers from my SQ-14 before I would give it up.

Catt22 said:

I would suggest the following:
5. Use gate valves in lieu of ball valves wherever precise flow control is needed. Ball valve are fine for full on or full off, but not so hot for flow control.
7. Some of the stands I have seen require a forklift to move and must weigh about the same as a Tundra. Design it as a good minimalist architect would.

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Are you sure on number 5 Catt? AFAIK gate valves a very nonlinear in terms of flow <=> % open.
Agree 100% on 7, I'm sure some of the brew stands could actually be used as axle stands when working on a Tundra!

Catt thanks for the help. i was just reading up on the burners and think im gonna go with the Bayuo classic sp10 - get 2 of them. i currently have a 8.5 gal turkey fryer which works great but i want to upgrade to 10 gal . the turkey fryer stand is specificly made for the pot which it came in, ill still keep it around.

i was reading tho how well the fit keggles fir on the sp10, and its ok but i saw someone just got a webber bbq replacement grill grate and that was an easy fix for it. it looks like they would be better on the SQ-14? the sp-10 has a 20psi regulator and the sq-14 has a 15psi. does that make any difference with 10 gal boils?

does the pump have to be mounted or be placed below the outlets of the keggles for it to work? i have a portable work bench i was thinking about mounting it to but it would be higher than the keggle outlet.

Yes, I'm absolutely sure and I'm speaking from direct experience as I have one on my pump and another on my HLT for a gravity fed sparge. They are not very linear, but they are much more linear than the ball valves IMO. The linear attribute is not as important as the number of turns from fully closed to fully open. It's 3-1/2 to full open for the gate valves and only 1/4 turn for the ball valves. The difference should be quite obvious. The valve for my HLT when sparging is barely cracked open to maintain a flow rate of about 1 quart per minute or so. The gate valve I use on the pump for flow control on the pump output is normally only opened one full turn or less IIRC. You could achieve similar control on the 1/4 turn ball valves if you used about a six foot long extension on the valve handle and operated it from the far end. Might look kind of silly and a handle that long would certainly be in the way a lot. I'm just kidding, of course, but it might help to visualize something like that to understand how huge the difference is. Gate valves were primarily designed to be used on systems where they are either fully open or fully closed such as shut off valves in relatively high pressure domestic water systems and such. They are not intended to be used as flow control valves for such systems. We, however, can re-purpose this type of valve the same way we have re-purposed the March pumps and, for that matter, our converted beer kegs. IOW, I'm using these valves for something entirely different than what they were designed for, but it works extremely well. It was a major PIA to control my sparge rate with a ball valve. I could not really grab the handle and turn it just a little. It was a constant overshoot and undershoot kind of thing. Now I can just tweak the gate valve a little with excellent precision as needed to maintain the proper flow rate. The improvement in control was huge. I cannot emphasize that enough. Same for the pump flow rate on the RIMS circulation and when pumping from the MT to the boil kettle. I use the standard ball valves wherever good flow control is not an issue, so I only need the gate valves in those two places.

BeantownR6 said:

Catt thanks for the help. i was just reading up on the burners and think im gonna go with the Bayuo classic sp10 - get 2 of them. i currently have a 8.5 gal turkey fryer which works great but i want to upgrade to 10 gal . the turkey fryer stand is specificly made for the pot which it came in, ill still keep it around.

i was reading tho how well the fit keggles fir on the sp10, and its ok but i saw someone just got a webber bbq replacement grill grate and that was an easy fix for it. it looks like they would be better on the SQ-14? the sp-10 has a 20psi regulator and the sq-14 has a 15psi. does that make any difference with 10 gal boils?

does the pump have to be mounted or be placed below the outlets of the keggles for it to work? i have a portable work bench i was thinking about mounting it to but it would be higher than the keggle outlet.

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Glad to be of some help.

OK, I'm not a big fan of the SP-10 as it uses this type of burner:

http://www.agrisupply.com/cast-iron-burner/p/30295/cn/5400000/

That burner is commonly referred to as a diffuser style. It's basically just a cast iron cup with a spreader plate bolted inside. A lot of guys are using these and they will work, but IMO you get better flame control and better heat distribution with the ring type burner like the SQ-14 has. I have one of each and I like the ring type burner much better. The ring type burners also burn more efficiently IMO, but if you are only heating water and boiling wort either type will work. I would definitely choose the ring burner over the diffuser type if direct firing a mash tun. The SQ-14 will safely and securely hold a converted keg kettle and most any kettle really. The stand is well constructed and it's wide enough to support a keg. IMO it's also safer as it is a little lower to the ground than the SP-10 which results in a lower center of gravity for the kettle. The SQ-14 should come equipped with a variable pressure (0-10 psi) regulator. You will probably never operate it at full wide open throttle. To do so will definitely put out a lot of heat, but it also wastes a lot of fuel unnecessarily. Yes, I've seen the BBQ grates used on the SP-10 to allow the kegs to rest more securely on the burner and that was a brilliant idea, but you won't have to do that with the SQ-14.

Here's a link to a good price on the SQ-14's. The price includes shipping too which is a major consideration:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009JXYQ4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I'd like to suggest that you buy the propane burners alone and not in combination with any turkey fryer kettles. Most of those are not of large enough capacity. Typically they are 7-8 gallons. You really want to get a 10 gallon kettle and/or convert a beer keg. You will quickly outgrow a smaller kettle. I did in a short time.

Regarding the pump. The pumps we commonly use are not self priming. The pump head must be flooded or it will not prime. IOW, the pump head must be mounted below the liquid source and a good rule of thumb to use is about a foot below the kettle outlet. You can get buy with less positive suction head, but it can sometimes be more trouble to get the pump quickly and easily primed at less than a one foot drop. The next problem you will face is that the SQ-14's are only about one foot high. the kettle valve will probably be at about 16 " or so. This does not give you much room to work with and it is one of the reasons I mounted my pump vertically with the pump head in the down (lowest) position. the pump head is probably only about four or five inches above the ground, so that leaves me about 11 or 12 inches of positive suction head. I'm cutting it rather close, but have no trouble priming and pumping with this configuration.

Catt22 said:

Gate valves were primarily designed to be used on systems where they are either fully open or fully closed such as shut off valves in relatively high pressure domestic water systems and such. They are not intended to be used as flow control valves for such systems. We, however, can re-purpose this type of valve the same way we have re-purposed the March pumps and, for that matter, our converted beer kegs. IOW, I'm using these valves for something entirely different than what they were designed for, but it works extremely well. It was a major PIA to control my sparge rate with a ball valve. I could not really grab the handle and turn it just a little. It was a constant overshoot and undershoot kind of thing. Now I can just tweak the gate valve a little with excellent precision as needed to maintain the proper flow rate.

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Does make sense after that, I retract questioning you!

thanks again catt seem like your real familar with all the equipment out there. home depot has the SQ-14s for 50 bucks here so ill get them there. as far as the pump if i don't have enough height i can always raise it up 6" or so my setting it on something sturdy.

yeah the turkey fryer is out growing me, had it for almost a year now. i came across 2 keggles on CL with the tops cut out and welded 1/2" threaded ports for 50 bucks each. i just need all the fittings for them and ready to rock and roll!

I've been at this for about 10 years and started out with only a Camp Chef burner and a 10 gallon Polarware kettle with a FB plus a couple of bucket fermenters. I went all grain after only a couple of extract batches. My system has sort of evolved over time and I've experienced most of the common major problems at one time or the other. I'm also an engineer and I have a lot of construction experience so I am familiar with the nuts and bolts end of things including basic plumbing and electrical stuff. I like to build things and play with various designs. The thing that never ceases to amaze me is how simple and easy all grain brewing initially appears, but you soon discover that what you thought would be a slam dunk is actually very far from it. It's only difficult to make beer if you want it to be that way. I like doing it the hard way. lol

BeantownR6 said:

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Sweet...you are recieving a "grant" for your build.

I'd go stainless now over the brass. Its not really that much of a cost upgrade Bargain fittings has some good deals as well as KLG stainless on eBay. I you do go brass, don't get them from McMastercarr. I'd only use them for hard to find parts as they charge so much more.

Would it be possible to share the Revit file? I too am in the architectural field, but as IT and not an Architect and would love to mess around with it. Just this last week I have been looking at doing the same type of stand and have been pricing things out.

I am leaning towards Hurricane burners with the natural gas valves and going with Little Giant pumps. I will be upgrading to all keggles from my current 10gal coolers soon, cannibalizing all of the parts from them I can. I plan on building the stand first as a replacement for my folding tables and then adding burners, pumps etc.

The single stand works best for me and the erector set changeability and ease of build is why I am going with this. That and my zero experience with welding.

pm me your email, the spread sheet is just excel but you can have the revit if you want

catt 22- you just saved me a lot of cash. I was going to do something simular. Now I will have to go back to the drawing board.

Alright, I got a second Bayou Classic SQ14 (with the SST braided hose like my other one) to hold my second keggle, I got a small folding table for my brew tools, and a collection of milk crates to hold my 62qt cooler mash tun and CFC. Now all I need is a pump mounted in a toolbox and I won't have to worry about lifting water/wort around, with the exception of after its in the fermenter.

I do like the idea of not tying up garage realstate and moving thing around the way I see fit.