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shafferpilot

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So I can't help but notice that a lot of the folks around here HATE the big lager companies with what I have to call an irrational passion. Don't get me wrong, when I go to the greatest grocery store on earth (Jungle Jim's) I head straight to the huge wall of individual bottles of beer most of which I've never heard of and start grabbing like a kid in Willie Wonka's factory. However, I finish up by hitting the walk-in for some of the good old standby: Coors Light. It's a great drinking beer. It tastes very even keal in my book, and I need something clear to drink between the others.... kind of like a pallet cleanser. I can drink stouts all night, but my mouth tastes like the Bert (SWMBO's dog) had a bowel movement in my mouth when i wasn't looking. Also I took the Coors tour in their golden colorado plant a while back, and of course got several free FRESH samples. Let me tell ya the flavors of coors light, coors original, blue moon, etc. are beautifully pronounced when they're that fresh. I honestly don't know what the heck happens to these brews when they leave the plant, 'cause they aren't as good later. Still tasty but not the same. Why are the refined designs of some of the oldest brewers poo-pooed so darn much? If it aint your bag, fine. But calling names like deer piss and swill etc. doesn't make much sense to me. There are plenty of beers I haven't liked at all, but I don't really care about that. I just don't buy those again. Is there anyone else that get's a little turned off by the comments I'm talking about?
 
shafferpilot said:
Coors Light. It's a great drinking beer. It tastes very even keal in my book, and I need something clear to drink between the others.... kind of like a pallet cleanser.

No doubt. When you don't like your water out of the tap, you can always get it from a can.:ban:
 
We're all about "craft" beer here. Bud, Miller, Coors don't qualify as a craft product due to the lack of flavor, taste, etc.
 
Criticism is the stuff of life and progress. I could understand your complaint if it was irrational or unfounded criticism, but the fact of the matter is: American Light Lager is a bland, simplistic, uninteresting style. Yes, it has its place; I went tubing down the James River earlier this summer with some friends, and I'll be damned if PBR wasn't the perfect, quintessential beer for such an occasion.

But at the same time, a lot of the backlash you see round these parts is due in large part to the market dominance that American Light Lager has enjoyed for the past century. The majority viewpoint in this country of "beer" is "clear, slightly yellow tasteless fizzy water"...and as craft brewers, people around here buck that majority viewpoint. One way they do that is to rail against the dominant paradigm...and American Light Lager is that paradigm.
 
shafferpilot said:
Coors Light. It's a great drinking beer. It tastes very even keal in my book, and I need something clear to drink between the others.... kind of like a pallet cleanser.
I guess, if you're water is unavailable or undrinkable.


shafferpilot said:
Why are the refined designs of some of the oldest brewers poo-pooed so darn much?
Because you'd think they'd get it right by now.

shafferpilot said:
If it aint your bag, fine. But calling names like deer piss and swill etc. doesn't make much sense to me.
I believe that since I grew up, not only drinking but serving these macros, that I have a right, nay, a duty to help prevent others from offending their palate.
:D

Wild
 
I can not drink Macros...If I buy beer it's definitely craft brew, Flying Dog, Terrapin, Sweetwater, Rougue.

Green bottles don't do it for me.
 
A big part of it is the damage BMC has done to the image of beer and beer drinkers. As you mention, some of them are good when handled properly, but BMC has lowered the flavor bar to the point that no level of mistreatment prevents people from drinking it, it's just a way to get drunk (more image problems).

As far as "refined designs" go, very few of the flagship BMC's are anything like they were 30 years ago, much less 50 or 60. On the average, they have 1/3 the IBU's they had in the '70s.
 
I think the thing that really bugs me about the large American companies is their capitalism over quality mindset. Now don't get me wrong, I am in no way knocking on capitalism. The BMC companies are just rotten beer because there motivations don't seem to include making a good beer because someone might not like it, thus might not buy it. And I think craft beers fans are still in the minority right now.

They realy are tasteless beers, and they are that way for a reason. The thing is if you try to make everyone happy, what you get is a real nuetral and bland product. That to me is gross. That is why i don't like them.
 
You can blame that on the consumer, poser, not BMC. Craft beer fans are in the minority not because of BMC really (they just give people what they want). They're in the minority for the same reason that the majority of people in this country would probably spit out a mouthful of Domaine la Romanee Conti if someone gave it to them, and reach for the Arbor Mist instead. Our palates, on the whole, are unrefined. We prefer sweetness, or the perception of sweetness, as a general rule. And the strong flavors in craft brew turn quite a few people off. The good news is that the tide is slowly but surely turning.
 
I guess I would say there's no pride taken in churning out millions of gallons of beer that's made up of the cheapest ingredients one could possibly find. I agree with the image thing too. Why do people seem so much more impressed when someone says "I make wine" as opposed to "I make beer"?
 
We have less expectations for BMC, but it definitely has its place. Much like how I know there's a difference between Burger King hamburger and the black angus hamburger my FIL raises, I know there's a difference between my beer and BMC. I still love some Macrobrews and drink them happily in the right settings. When I'm playing a drinking game, I'll choose Miller Lite over a 10% Barleywine. When I'm hanging with my homies, I'll put down a 40 of Olde English. When I'm at a dive bar, I'll get an MGD or a High Life. And when I'm at home, watching TV and in the mood for a beer, or at a nice restaurant, I'll have a craft brew.
 
Brewing Clamper said:
I guess I would say there's no pride taken in churning out millions of gallons of beer that's made up of the cheapest ingredients one could possibly find. I agree with the image thing too. Why do people seem so much more impressed when someone says "I make wine" as opposed to "I make beer"?

First off, I doubt "pride" is really on their minds as their swimming in their uncle-scrooge-esque money bins. They're thinking, holy sh*t, we make beer the cheapest possible way, and people make us billionaires in return! I hate to say it, but if I owned one of those big conglomerates, I wouldn't f*ck with a winning business model, even if the beer is tasteless fizzy water. I'd continue to rake in the millions, and then make my own specialty stuff for me to drink myself, and take pride in that.

Nobody I know is more impressed with homemade wine than they are with homemade beer...but then, most of the people I know are wine geeks like me, and so they know the difference. For most people, though, wine has this romantic baggage attached to it, and is seen as the classier beverage.
 
There seems to be a lot of contempt between the BMC and craft brew crowds and I also don't understand it. People laugh at me when I ask for a glass for my beer and my reply is that I like my beer how I like it. I don't retort with some insult involving the words "piss water". We're in a capatist society where you can get just about any product you like. With 1500+ breweries to choose from, I hardly think BMC is being forced on anyone that doesn't want it. Why the F do you care what someone else is drinking?
 
Evan! said:
You can blame that on the consumer, poser, not BMC.QUOTE]


WOW I think you just nailed this one down pat!! Consumers are generally moronic sheep who cow-tow to silcone models and catchy slogans every time. Can sheep cow-tow?? I digress...

Hopefully the mere fact that Sam Adams has become a household name will help push the big guys back into gear. I wish I had a bar like "Winking Lizard" around Cincy. People around Cleveland know what I'm talking about. Dozens of good brews on tap and hundreds and hundreds of different bottles. We do have one with a great draft selection "The Beer Cellar" but at WAY to high a price (I don't pay $13 for a beer no matter how good it is)! There should be a Winking Lizard in place of every "Friday's" "Applebees" and any other restraunt-with-a-garage-sale-on-the-wall in the country! I'm starting a petition.:rolleyes:
 
Brewing Clamper said:
I agree with the image thing too. Why do people seem so much more impressed when someone says "I make wine" as opposed to "I make beer"?

That really depends sometimes. Back home hearing "I make wine" conjures up images of rednecks making hooch out of old fruit and table sugar and keeping mason jars of it behind their pickup truck's seat :drunk:
 
Evan! said:
First off, I doubt "pride" is really on their minds as their swimming in their uncle-scrooge-esque money bins. They're thinking, holy sh*t, we make beer the cheapest possible way, and people make us billionaires in return! I hate to say it, but if I owned one of those big conglomerates, I wouldn't f*ck with a winning business model, even if the beer is tasteless fizzy water. I'd continue to rake in the millions, and then make my own specialty stuff for me to drink myself, and take pride in that.

I'd F with it! I would rather rake in a few hundred thousand appealing to other craft brewing connoisseurs and others that like flavor than to the millions of Drones around the country. Some of these craft brews that are available now are available because people like us will buy them. Rouge, Dogfish Head, Terrapin, Sweetwater. Some of these are household names Dogfish has been around for awhile but only recently bust into the Shelves of your local stores.

Nobody I know is more impressed with homemade wine than they are with homemade beer...but then, most of the people I know are wine geeks like me, and so they know the difference. For most people, though, wine has this romantic baggage attached to it, and is seen as the classier beverage.

That may be because they know it is more labor intensive to make a good beer. A really nice wine is about climate and blending not proper crush, mash, sparge and proper yeast selection.
 
Evan! said:
First off, I doubt "pride" is really on their minds as their swimming in their uncle-scrooge-esque money bins. They're thinking, holy sh*t, we make beer the cheapest possible way, and people make us billionaires in return! I hate to say it, but if I owned one of those big conglomerates, I wouldn't f*ck with a winning business model, even if the beer is tasteless fizzy water. I'd continue to rake in the millions, and then make my own specialty stuff for me to drink myself, and take pride in that.

I'd F with it! I would rather rake in a few hundred thousand appealing to other craft brewing connoisseurs and others that like flavor than to the millions of Drones around the country. Some of these craft brews that are available now are available because people like us will buy them. Rouge, Dogfish Head, Terrapin, Sweetwater. Some of these are household names Dogfish has been around for awhile but only recently bust into the Shelves of your local stores.

Evan! said:
Nobody I know is more impressed with homemade wine than they are with homemade beer...but then, most of the people I know are wine geeks like me, and so they know the difference. For most people, though, wine has this romantic baggage attached to it, and is seen as the classier beverage.

That may be because they know it is more labor intensive to make a good beer. A really nice wine is about climate and blending not proper crush, mash, sparge and proper yeast selection.
 
Evan! said:
First off, I doubt "pride" is really on their minds as their swimming in their uncle-scrooge-esque money bins. They're thinking, holy sh*t, we make beer the cheapest possible way, and people make us billionaires in return! I hate to say it, but if I owned one of those big conglomerates, I wouldn't f*ck with a winning business model, even if the beer is tasteless fizzy water. I'd continue to rake in the millions, and then make my own specialty stuff for me to drink myself, and take pride in that.

I'd F with it! I would rather rake in a few hundred thousand; appealing to other craft brewing connoisseurs and others that like flavor than to the millions of Drones around the country. Some of these craft brews that are available now are available because people like us will buy them. Rouge, Dogfish Head, Terrapin, Sweetwater. Some of these are household names Dogfish has been around for awhile but only recently bust into the Shelves of your local stores.

Evan! said:
Nobody I know is more impressed with homemade wine than they are with homemade beer...but then, most of the people I know are wine geeks like me, and so they know the difference. For most people, though, wine has this romantic baggage attached to it, and is seen as the classier beverage.

That may be because they know it is more labor intensive to make a good beer. A really nice wine is about climate and blending not proper crush, mash, sparge and proper yeast selection.
 
BMC (especially, but not limited to, B), really only pisses me off with their penchant for buying out microbreweries, then watering down or discontinuing the product.

Red Hook, Atlanta Brewing, Leinenkugel’s, Blue Moon, August Schell, Stevens Point, Rolling Rock, Goose Island...the list goes on...
 
Yuri_Rage said:
BMC (especially, but not limited to, B), really only pisses me off with their penchant for buying out microbreweries, then watering down or discontinuing the product.

Red Hook, Atlanta Brewing, Leinenkugel’s, Blue Moon, August Schell, Stevens Point, Rolling Rock, Goose Island...the list goes on...

Or their god-awful advertising: "0 grams of fat!"
 
sause said:
The Stevens Point Brewery is still independently operated.

Seconded. They were owned by Barton Brands of Chicago and it went it went to **** for awhile, but they're indie. They're doing more craft beers and contracts for Karl Strauss and a few others.
 
After everything I have learned on this site, and appriciate it! I have to say this is the most interesting thread I have read.
Devil's advocate: If we are the minority then aren't we wrong? As far as buisness goes I want to make money. I don't care what you 3 people want I'm catering to you 97 over there!
That being said in personal expirence I find it funny to look back on how I evolved. I worked at a party store starting when I was 14, so I drank the beer that tasted the best at room temp, cause I had to hide it. (to this day I still perfer my wood chuck at room temp or slightly cooled, try it, it really is better/different). Then as I got old enough to have someone get it for me or buy it myself I leaned towards the buds and bud lights. for most of my drinkable years the preference was Labatts, we always had a keg of it in our keggerator at my house. I remember my cousin buying me a Guiness and thinking "gross". Then I sterted ordering black and tans, and that led to having a Guiness to start the night and Labatt's to get the buzz going, and another Guiness to end the night, something I could just sip on and enjoy. Then I started traveling to AZ for work3 years ago, try finding a Labatt's down there, (my stapel), So I was "forced to try new thing and low and behold I liked them. There is one bar down there The Yard House that has a hundred and some beers on tap, Great food and some good beers, but my first one was always a Labatt. Now I started brewing my own and I would perfer a micro brew over a labatt, and I have even gotten to the point that when I do settle for one, the first few sipps make me cringe. But I still thank the big guys for making a beer to start me out on!!!
 
I always get the look like you make beer? :(
Like it's some bathtub gin **** that was made in the 20's.
I actually got asked once, then what do you take a shower in? ...walk away
 
To your point though Yuri, no one can force the sale of a micro unless it's a publicly traded company of course. When a micro sells to the big boys, you immediately realize it's more about money and less about the passion. I think even a couple years in the business jades anyone enough to have a pricetag. It's just that bigBMC has the wallet to reach just about anyone's price. Still, I doubt they have a clan of thugs forcing the sale.
 
No, the thugs roll in during the distribution phase pressuring bars, stores and restaurants to replace say a Beach Bum Blond for an Avery Wit.
 
Bobby_M said:
To your point though Yuri, no one can force the sale of a micro unless it's a publicly traded company of course.

You'd be a fool to allow someone to own 51% of your company stock. A fool, or at least extremely in debt to allow someone to take ownership of the controlling amount of equity. Or you'd have to think "This is a great deal, and I'm going to facilitate the purchase of the controling shares." Even then, Bud doesn't "water down" the beers, they try to keep the recipe the same but reduce costs by giving the Micro the benefit of being a Baby-Bud: cheaper grain and hops, access to bottling, and of course the distribution system of the gods.
 
I don't have an inherent dislike of large companies or of the large breweries based on their business practices - this is America folk, free market capitalism reigns supreme. I also don't have an inherent dislike of their marketing tactics (even though I occasionally make fun of them). I have no problem with consumers who drink BMC beers (though I do try to convert them) anymore than I have a problem with people who think Applebees is a great restaurant; to each his own.

But to the OPs original comments, I do refer to BMC products as "swill" and "skunk piss" because I literally cannot stomach the stuff, it makes me want to vomit. When BMC is the only alcoholic beverage option I skip it and drink water instead (though some could argue the two things are the same :D ).
 
Bobby_M said:
When a micro sells to the big boys, you immediately realize it's more about money and less about the passion. I think even a couple years in the business jades anyone enough to have a pricetag. It's just that bigBMC has the wallet to reach just about anyone's price.
Indeed. On one hand, when BMC makes you an offer that will allow you to retire for good and live quite comfortably for the remainder of your life, your company has reached a certain pinnacle of success. On the other hand, when BMC alters your recipe or even discontinues the product you worked so hard to create, your personal financial success is somewhat overshadowed by what appears to be the ultimate failure of your endeavor.

Certainly the reason for that "failure" is up for debate. Some will say that BMC saw you as a threat and took you down. Others will say that your product never had a chance in the big national market. The answer probably lies somewhere in between.

At any rate, I think it's sad when the little guys disappear under the weight of pressure from corporate giants.

Hmm...it's the WalMart debate all over again...
 
I was just called "Al Capone" a few minutes ago bc this guy found out I make beer (kinda easy as I'm wearing a AHB shirt and I've got the HomebrewTalk.com sticker on my car...)

He was like "oh do you sell it? Is it like bud lite or something?"

grr

Anyway, BMC has it's place...Like Evan! said floating down a river or camping or something like that nothing hits the spot like a cold Lone Star. But, like Cheese said, at a restraunt or at home I'll have a craft/home brew
 
I definitely fall into the category that the macrobrews have their place. I'm still amazed that they are able to make such a consistent beer with so little actual malt! With such light beer, it's hard to mask off-flavors (for me anyway).

As for the practice of using the cheapest ingredients, all breweries have to to do this to some extent or another to stay in business. Chimay uses actual wheat flour in their beer these days. The true beauty of having a hobby instead of a business is that you can make the beer with whatever ingredients you want without regard to cost. Every microbrewery has to make some tradeoff between quality and cost.

Lastly, I absolutely think American light lagers have their place in the beer world. Whatever you like to drink. If your a fan of Bud Light, go for it.

I think the underlying issue here is that, like any group of connoisseurs, we are in danger of falling into the snobbery category. I was completely turned off to the wine world because a good wine isn't what tastes good, it's what the wine experts say is good. I think it's good to respect each type of beer for what it is, and RDWHAHB.
 
I guess we can just pray that BMC will someday decide to join the microbrewers rather than trying to beat them. There capabilities COULD be utilized to make some really great beers. :mug:
 
shafferpilot said:
I guess we can just pray that BMC will someday decide to join the microbrewers rather than trying to beat them. There capabilities COULD be utilized to make some really great beers. :mug:

Why should they?....IMHO they make vastly different products for different markets.
I don't look for premium steaks at McDonalds or $1 burgers at Smith & Wollenskys.
 
brewt00l said:
Why should they?....IMHO they make vastly different products for different markets.
I don't look for premium steaks at McDonalds or $1 burgers at Smith & Wollenskys.


touche! my friend, touche
 
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