Which lager yeast should I choose? - no lagerator

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I did some searches (both through the HBT search and google) and could only seem to find threads about purposely pushing lager yeast to ale temps.

Anyway, I'm looking ahead to the cooler months and thinking about attempting a lager. I have no fermentation chamber or ability to control temps. And I'm wondering which strain of lager yeast would give the closest to a true lager profile at around 58°-60°F. That is the temp that I'll be working with in the basement during the winter.

I'm sure plenty of people have suggestions of how to build a simple/cheap fermentation chamber using frozen bottles and whatever else. I'm not going to do that. I just don't feel like dealing with it.

So, several of the Wyeast strains list 58°F as the upper end of the ideal range.

Purely based on the descriptions on the Wyeast website and my gut feeling, I think I'd lean towards the Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager strain. The 2278 Czech Pils strain is a close 2nd, because of the note that the sulfur can be reduced towards the top of the temp range (58°F). Both of those strains are also listed as med-high flocculation, which I like.

Some might suggest the 2112 California Lager strain, but I guess I don't know enough about steam beers/cali-common beers to know if this yeast would be convincing as a lager. The 2124 Bohemian Lager is marked as being good for Cali-common beers as well at warmer temps.

I'm sure the decision would be somewhat dependent on the specific style I brew. I haven't decided anything for sure, but I guess I would tend towards doppelbock, dunkel, vienna lager, or oktoberfest. I would not be trying to do an American lager or a pilsner or anything that light and/or delicate.

You might be able to tell that I'm not really sure of much here. I just have an itch to try brewing a lager, and I think my basement temps might be just barely cool enough to kind of pull it off. I have brewed a few batches of Kolsch using the 2565 yeast around 60°F, and they have turned out well. A true lager yeast seems like the next obvious adventure. What do you think?
 
After it ferments around 45 or so lagerinh occurs which is a prolonged phase of storage at 39 or so degrees, sometimes even colder. The long cool storage is what makes a lager just that
 
I'm kind of doing the same. Read good things about San Francisco lager yeast. Might need swamp cooler though.
 
Would you be better off brewing a Kolsch? I've never brewed one but my understanding is that it's a lager type taste but brewed at ale temps. Maybe an acceptable compromise if you can't lager.
 
signpost said:
I did some searches (both through the HBT search and google) and could only seem to find threads about purposely pushing lager yeast to ale temps.

Anyway, I'm looking ahead to the cooler months and thinking about attempting a lager. I have no fermentation chamber or ability to control temps. And I'm wondering which strain of lager yeast would give the closest to a true lager profile at around 58°-60°F. That is the temp that I'll be working with in the basement during the winter.

I'm sure plenty of people have suggestions of how to build a simple/cheap fermentation chamber using frozen bottles and whatever else. I'm not going to do that. I just don't feel like dealing with it.

So, several of the Wyeast strains list 58°F as the upper end of the ideal range.

Purely based on the descriptions on the Wyeast website and my gut feeling, I think I'd lean towards the Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager strain. The 2278 Czech Pils strain is a close 2nd, because of the note that the sulfur can be reduced towards the top of the temp range (58°F). Both of those strains are also listed as med-high flocculation, which I like.

Some might suggest the 2112 California Lager strain, but I guess I don't know enough about steam beers/cali-common beers to know if this yeast would be convincing as a lager. The 2124 Bohemian Lager is marked as being good for Cali-common beers as well at warmer temps.

I'm sure the decision would be somewhat dependent on the specific style I brew. I haven't decided anything for sure, but I guess I would tend towards doppelbock, dunkel, vienna lager, or oktoberfest. I would not be trying to do an American lager or a pilsner or anything that light and/or delicate.

You might be able to tell that I'm not really sure of much here. I just have an itch to try brewing a lager, and I think my basement temps might be just barely cool enough to kind of pull it off. I have brewed a few batches of Kolsch using the 2565 yeast around 60°F, and they have turned out well. A true lager yeast seems like the next obvious adventure. What do you think?
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I just made a 10 gallon batch of a doppelbock, and split it into two fives. To one I added two smackpacks of Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager. To the other I added one very swelled smackpack of Wyeast 2112 California Lager.

I put them both at 60 F, based on the same info you are reading, that 2124 is OK at 60 F. This is not a good idea. The sulfur from the 2124 was about as nasty as any smell I have experienced while brewing. I finally added a piece of copper pipe to it for 30 minutes - 12" long 3/4" diameter. This did seem to really take out the sulfur, and fast. I believe the 2124 should probably be fermented at more like 45-50 range. Not 58 or 60. The 2112 on the other hand likes life at that temp.
 
bdb7098 said:
Would you be better off brewing a Kolsch? I've never brewed one but my understanding is that it's a lager type taste but brewed at ale temps. Maybe an acceptable compromise if you can't lager.
Click to expand...

Thanks for reading my OP.

bethebrew said:
I just made a 10 gallon batch of a doppelbock, and split it into two fives. To one I added two smackpacks of Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager. To the other I added one very swelled smackpack of Wyeast 2112 California Lager.

I put them both at 60 F, based on the same info you are reading, that 2124 is OK at 60 F. This is not a good idea. The sulfur from the 2124 was about as nasty as any smell I have experienced while brewing. I finally added a piece of copper pipe to it for 30 minutes - 12" long 3/4" diameter. This did seem to really take out the sulfur, and fast. I believe the 2124 should probably be fermented at more like 45-50 range. Not 58 or 60. The 2112 on the other hand likes life at that temp.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Do you think the sulfur in the 2124 batch would have dissipated on its own, if given enough time? Or had you already given it a lot of time?
 
I know that you mentioned that you didn't have a means of fermenting at lager temps or being able to lager, neither did I until I did a search on Craigslist for refrigerators and came across literally dozens of listings for mini refrigerators/dorm room refrigerators listed at dirt cheap prices.

The one I picked up was 4.6 cu ft unit that appeared brand new, super clean, not a scratch or dent, and the seller had it fired up with a thermometer in it when I showed up.
I measured the inside to make sure a 6 gal carboy would fit in it, it was perfect....I picked it up for $35.00!

When I got it home, I removed the rubber gasket from the door, and removed the plastic door panel and reattached the gasket.

The only down side is that I am using a bungee cord to make sure that the door stays shut, but in my opinion, that is the least of my worries.
This unit is great, it holds temp perfectly, I got it down to 33° with a carboy (filled) and 6 bottles of beer in it in under 20 minutes.

I can make lagers, cold crash other batches, cold stabilize my wine...and keep a few ice cold brews in it as well...lol!

I would look into getting one, for the price, you can't beat it!
 
signpost said:
Thanks for reading my OP.



Thanks for the info. Do you think the sulfur in the 2124 batch would have dissipated on its own, if given enough time? Or had you already given it a lot of time?
Click to expand...

You're welcome bro.

The sulfur was pretty strong, but maybe?

Both batches are improving with some time in the fridge.
 
Wyeast 2124 really needs some time to clean up in a lager environment say 32 degrees. Those are the my experiences with it. I would stick with either wlp810 which is s.f. lager or as someone mentioned earlier brew up a koslch. Koslch is a great beer no lagering required.
 
Ultimately what the other guys are telling you is right. Even with the California Common yeast you aren't going to get a nice, clean lager flavor fermenting at 58 ambient.Remember, the actual beer can be ten degrees warmer than the ambient temperature - and a 68-70 degree lager is Not A Good Thing.

At the very least you NEED a swamp cooler for that yeast. For a more normal fridge you will NEED a way to lager the beer, and probably to ferment in.

I'm not saying this because I didn't read your question. I am saying this because it is true, and it is simply a fact that you can't make a classic lager without temp control.
 
signpost said:
I have brewed several batches of Kolsch. Like I wrote in the OP.
Click to expand...

Well then use wlp810 s.f. lager yeast. That makes a great beer. But I got say I always lager with that yeast. But I hear its not really necessary. Give it a try I would love to hear your results.
 
I have a similar conundrum as you but knew exactly what I wanted to brew... a Dunkel. Formulated a recipe and then came here for advice. What I got was two pronged.... Cali lager yeast basement cold and I should be ok or Nottingham (ale) at consistent basement temps to come out. clean. I decided on Nottingham. H2S and sulphur are nasty, don't want to worry about scrubbing it out.... hoping to get no fruitiness out of the Nott at 64F. In a month I'll know if it worked and the Dunkel is any good!
 
signpost said:
Thanks for reading my OP.



Thanks for the info. Do you think the sulfur in the 2124 batch would have dissipated on its own, if given enough time? Or had you already given it a lot of time?
Click to expand...

I do half-assed lagers in the winter here and I like 2124 better than 2112. 2124 is very sulfury (like rancid egg farts) but it will go away. It takes a long time in the bottle if you are bottle conditioning (at least 2 months at fridge temps). Saflager 34/70 is great too if you want to try a dry yeast. It is very similar to 2124 but not quite as malty or sulfury (good!). ...definitely stay away from s06...it goes almost belgian if it gets too hot.
 
gbx said:
I do half-assed lagers in the winter here and I like 2124 better than 2112. 2124 is very sulfury (like rancid egg farts) but it will go away. It takes a long time in the bottle if you are bottle conditioning (at least 2 months at fridge temps). Saflager 34/70 is great too if you want to try a dry yeast. It is very similar to 2124 but not quite as malty or sulfury (good!). ...definitely stay away from s06...it goes almost belgian if it gets too hot.
Click to expand...

So, by "half assed" what does that mean in terms of fermentation temperatures?
 
bethebrew said:
So, by "half assed" what does that mean in terms of fermentation temperatures?
Click to expand...

ambient temps under the house in winter are 10-14C average but sometimes get a little higher and I don't have the ability to bulk lager. 2124 and saflager 34/70 have worked out the best. You won't win a ninkasi award with that method but you can make decent homebrew. I did a 34pt oktoberfest (hit 15C ambient) and a 40pt dunkel 3 years ago with 2124, and a 39pt baltic porter last winter using 34/70
 
gbx said:
ambient temps under the house in winter are 10-14C average but sometimes get a little higher and I don't have the ability to bulk lager. 2124 and saflager 34/70 have worked out the best. You won't win a ninkasi award with that method but you can make decent homebrew. I did a 34pt oktoberfest (hit 15C ambient) and a 40pt dunkel 3 years ago with 2124, and a 39pt baltic porter last winter using 34/70
Click to expand...

nice scores. i've been scoring well with us-05 and american stuff. 44 american stout, 44 american barleywine, and the big kahuna 48 american ipa. have done virtually zero lagers over the years. been looking at doing some big german lager beers and the 2124 seems to fit the best. would probably ferment it at 48 F in my garage fridge this winter or in my freezer next. i just hate messing with starters. maybe use 34/70 instead, 2 packs?
 
bethebrew said:
nice scores. i've been scoring well with us-05 and american stuff. 44 american stout, 44 american barleywine, and the big kahuna 48 american ipa. have done virtually zero lagers over the years. been looking at doing some big german lager beers and the 2124 seems to fit the best. would probably ferment it at 48 F in my garage fridge this winter or in my freezer next. i just hate messing with starters. maybe use 34/70 instead, 2 packs?
Click to expand...

I hate starters too as I can never make a plan to brew enough days in advance but I do love repitching yeast. I've also done half batches as drinkable starters before and then repitched. Each time I've done lagers I've always started with pilsners, repitched to oktoberfest or dunkel, then repitched to a baltic porter. 2 packs is probably good but use the pitching rate calculator and see.
 
Have to chime in here....

Dude - do the lager beer. It will be fine. I have tried this many times similarly to what you are looking to do, and it always worked out fine. Bulk age or age it in the bottle as long as possible and as low as possible, but if you can keep your ferment below 60F it will be just a fine beer.

Will it be exactly the same beer as all the "you must lager exactly at 47F" crowds beer? Maybe not - but it could be just as good if not better, you just have to try it. I do recommend a D rest though. I have done even high gravity doppelbocks in a room that has an ambient temp around the same as yours, and those doppelbocks remain the best beers I have ever made (and I have made a hell of a lot of beer in my few years of all grain brewing).

Not trying to discount anyone's knowledge of lagering, but if the beer will be delicious. Make a half batch first even.
 
jjones17 said:
Will it be exactly the same beer as all the "you must lager exactly at 47F" crowds beer? Maybe not - but it could be just as good if not better, you just have to try it.
Click to expand...

Gonna have to disagree, ace. It's only going to be "just as good" or "better" if the OP doesn't care about matching the style he's brewing. I wish the ales I let go over 78 were "just as good" as all the beer the "you must ferment ale at the correct temps" crowd, but unfortunately that would have required magic.
 
Trail said:
Gonna have to disagree, ace. It's only going to be "just as good" or "better" if the OP doesn't care about matching the style he's brewing. I wish the ales I let go over 78 were "just as good" as all the beer the "you must ferment ale at the correct temps" crowd, but unfortunately that would have required magic.
Click to expand...

I agree with you actually - ales over 78 taste like anti-freeze. A beer made with some lager yeasts fermented below or around about 60F-ish with no 'lagering' period, are delicious. Aging does a pretty good job of cleaning up the off flavors. Done it many times - though I do not want to convince you of that, since you probably have lagering equipment. Try it op! Do eeeeeet!
 

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