Review my selections before I pull trigger? (long post, can't help it sorry, >$500)

Hello all, I was hoping you could review the items sitting in my NB cart, so far at $526 total before shipping, that has been slowly been building up. I am also sharing this info with you to simply get it "off my chest" as much as anything, because I am struggling to hold down my impatience for the moment, as I feel that I've been researching non stop. In fact, I still could see pulling the trigger at any moment, as I believe I've done a decent job in doing my due diligence, but maybe I can hold out for a tiny bit longer. Yes, this is for extract brewing for the moment. I would like to eventually graduate to Belgian tripels, but who knows how slowly that may come around (on a side note, I've heard conflicting information about the necessity of corks/cages, which could lead me to upgrade my capper to the Colonna, but I digress). I've read How To Brew, have Papazian's book but haven't touched it yet, and have several more books on the way, two of which are on Belgians, and one on growing hops. Without further ado, the preselected items, each followed by a blurb about my decision making process.

Megapot 10g, ball valve + Brewmometer, both weldless, $220. Too big is better than too small, and it could maybe take on AG duties in the future, who knows.

2x Better Bottle 6g, plain, $55 total. I was tempted by the oxygenless transfer if willing to add so much more money, but reading about slow and/or clogging situations, cheap cracking units, I was finally convinced to simply use an auto siphon, with money in the pocket. (Deciding on the fermenter choice, also with which options to get, took waaay more time than I could have ever anticipated, though wort chillers were a close second.)

Glass carboy w/ bung, $39. For the possibility of long term fermentation, wine, and/or just to have a 3rd fermenter for more beer!

Wort Chiller, a "standard" 25' of 3/8" with hose fittings, and I'm half expecting the fittings to leak out of the box. I spent way too much time reading about whirlpool, counterflow, and plate. I was possibly ready to splurge $200 on a Therminator, then saw $20 for the assembly, then finally realized I even need a (March or other) pump, all that and I may still have cleaning and/or possibly chill haze(?) issues, so I think I got ahead of myself, particularly with the budget. Really, I was ready to pay more in advance with the hopes of saving considerable time, but I'm on this side of the "compromise" for now. I also looked into DIY solutions, watching several YT videos. Assuming I stay at 5 gal batches, I think some of the solutions are more hassle than I need to deal with presently, at least when it's not a baking hot day.

OK, I'm adding a yeast starter kit just because. I don't even know how much it would benefit me, $16.

Miscellaneous:
Star San 32oz, $16.
Auto siphon 1/2" + 6' of 7/16" tubing $17.
2x 3piece airlocks, 1x bubbler airlock. I figure I might need 3, and might as well try both kinds, $4.
3x standard carboy handles (I'm not very sure about the necessity of these particularly with the BBs, especially if I do pick up a furniture dolly), $20.
Hydrometer $5.
Capper $17.
Caps $4.
Bottle Tree $19.

Can anyone point me to a good oxygenation system with diffuser please? The one at NB is out of stock, TYVM.

I have yet to even decide on a first recipe, so I still will need to select yeasts, DME, hops, etc. I may just go local for ingredients, or I may add certain ones to the order I suppose.

I also look forward to trying to grow some hops. I obviously don't know enough about brewing yet to know which rhizomes to order, and have done some research on what people have succeeded with near me, though I deal with relatively lower amounts of sunlight due to the nature of the property.

I am sort of planning on buying a furniture dolly to help move the fermenters into a closet on the same floor as the kitchen, as it's all a hard floor along the whole path. I was torn over getting an outdoor burner, but I can always decide on that later. What's nice about the chosen Megapot is that it seems it can easily straddle two of my gas burners, yet is low enough to clear the microwave (the front half will be totally unobstructed; I'm hoping I'm good in this regard).

I should mention that I have Oxi free and TSP/90 on the way from Amazon. I'm still not sure what is the correct proportion for the best approximation of a poor man's PBW.

Thermometers: I'm not keen on Fermometers, and am wondering how helpful my instant read IR gun would be (I know it's relatively useles on hot liquids from a recent cheesemaking foray, as it starts reading the vapors instead). I was OTOH convinced to add the weldless to the brew pot, as it seems too convenient not too?

Congrats for surviving my endless rambling. Whew! So, do you think I'm good to go? You give me a pass?

Jumping right in... nice

I'll be honest, I did not read your whole thread. I saw you had you eyes on the megapot, nice kettle. You could probably find a pot cheaper, even bigger. Hell, I got mine on eBay. 45 bucks, its aluminum but its real thick. It'll hold 15 gallons. And adding a ball valve was not hard. Buckets work great as primary fermenters, and they are not as expensive as carboys. But then its all in what you want to spend. There are plenty of vendors here on HBT that make nice kettles too

Also, Idk if the carboys handles should be used on the better bottles.

dawgmatic said:

Jumping right in... nice

I'll be honest, I did not read your whole thread. I saw you had you eyes on the megapot, nice kettle. You could probably find a pot cheaper, even bigger. Hell, I got mine on eBay. 45 bucks, its aluminum but its real thick. It'll hold 15 gallons. And adding a ball lock was not hard. Buckets work great as primary fermenters, and they are not as expensive as carboys. But then its all in what you want to spend.

Also, Idk if the carboys handles should be used on the better bottles.

Click to expand...

Hi dawgmatic. $45 is a pretty good price! I'm only considering 5 gallon batches atm, but maybe those are famous last words. I will say that when I was comparing "parts costs" compared to the preinstalled Megapot with valve/thermometer, it seemed like a very small sum for the convenience. Maybe it was as low as $20, I'd have to look at my notes. Now if your $45 pot fit underneath my microwave, and perhaps came with these options preinstalled, I would go for it I guess... Hmmm, maybe I should go cheaper...

I compared pros/cons of fermenters until the cows came home. That was time consuming for me for sure. I'm sure it's exaggerated, and the answer to every brewing question in the world apparently is, "it depends", but some people even recommend changing out the plastic buckets every year! Not cost effective if even half true. I do like the idea of watching the fermentation, and I guess the "clarity" of the BB makes one feel more secure about the cleanliness without scrubbing. (I wonder if people just sloshed around Oxi free in buckets, if they would last forever, but I guess it's possibly more convenient to order new buckets than to do that every time?)

The snap on handles made by BB for their own products seem to get awful reviews. Now that we're discussing it, the carboy handles are probably a waste of money (esp if I do get that furniture dolly?), but then again anything to help me from dropping a 5 gallons of beautiful golden liquid is always welcome, haha.

I have not had a single batch get infected... on accident

But I got two 3 year old buckets and a 15 year old bucket. It all depends on how you take care of it. I inherited some of my equipment, and acquired what I needed as I went on.

I think its super awesome that youre willing jump in this much. My only advice is that you should keg your brew. The investment is easily worth hassle of bottling. Good luck with your purchases

dawgmatic said:

I have not had a single batch get infected... on accident

But I got two 3 year old buckets and a 15 year old bucket. It all depends on how you take care of it. I inherited some of my equipment, and acquired what I needed as I went on.

Click to expand...

Hmm. Great, thanks for the added confusion!

I think its super awesome that youre willing jump in this much. My only advice is that you should keg your brew. The investment is easily worth hassle of bottling. Good luck with your purchases

Click to expand...

Thanks for the encouraging words. Kegging, eh? Oh dear.... lol

I would for sure skip out on the carboy handles...you dont need em for the better bottles. I do use one on my glass carboy but I also hold it from the bottom. I dont really like the idea of all the weight being stressed around the neck of a carboy. You mentioned an outdoor burner and that might be worth thinking about. I did one batch on the 5 gallon pot from my LHBS on my stove before moving outdoors. Got my burner from sportchalet in the car camping department and love it. It's great that your willing to dive right in but if your starting with 5 gallon extracts on your stove and think you might want to move into all grain in the future possibly think about a basic 5 gallon pot that doesn't cost much but will be plenty big enough for extract. This way when you realize how hooked you are you can decide if you want to stick with 5 gallon batches or go with 10 gallon batches then get your pot accordingly. It would be unfortunate if you wanted to move up to 10 gallon batches but had this awesome brew kettle that you spent a good chunk of change on holding you back. Either way good luck and Im sure youll love it!

welcome to HBT by the way

Oh and I forgot to mention good call on the yeast starter kit. However you might want to go with the 2000 ML kit...one of those things where you can scale it down as much as you want with the bigger flask but you can only build the 1000 ml starter up so big with the smaller flask. Also look into building a stir plate. Its super easy and way cheaper than buying one from NB

tflew, thanks for the great feedback! And for the welcome as well.

Upgrading to 2000 ml, check.
Very next thing to research will be homemade stir plate, check.
Next time I'm anywhere near sporting goods store, stop in, check.
Changing carboy handles order from 3 down to 1, check. (I was planning on supporting from the bottom, but nevertheless thanks for taking the time).

Regarding my choice of 10 gallon pot, I could probably do something like 7.5 gallons if I wanted to increase batch, right? Regardless, the smallest Megapot is 8 gallons, and with the same features I save only $25. It also has the same height (microwave) where I don't gain extra clearance, as I did think about that as well.

I meant to be clearer about my present feeling about AG, but it is a lot of added time to the brew day for what that may give me. However, at first I thought the cost differential was much smaller than what HBT folks seem to be reporting after some searches, but still, my impression is that AG essentially doubles the time needed on brew day, all said and done.

OTOH, having just briefly scoped out some recipes here, particularly in the Belgian section, relatively very few are extract based. Hmmm... I do like the ideas of yeast starters, or growing hops, because I can give time to those things in smaller increments, as they don't add up towards taking up the whole day so to speak. Maybe that's just the semi-timid beginner in me speaking. Thanks again, I appreciate it.

Well done. I think you might be better off with a cheapo 6ishgallon pot initially. If/when you go all grain, you will need a bigger pot than 10 gallons (not only to work in easier but because you will find a recipe you know is a 10 gallon one, and not have the room. Once you are established and all graining, at that time, the thermometer and the ball valve on a big ass pot. Your temps are not so critical in the extract and partial brews (a cheap one will be fine, and you can still use for starters and whatnot later). Your 6-7 plain jane pot will still get plenty of use later on.

I just read what tflew said above, pretty much the same idea about the pot.

If you are very time conscious, I encourage you to look into BIAB and "no chill" down the road. I would not be all graining if not for BIAB. I do a 3:30-45 brew day on a 10 gallon batch. No chill is pretty amazing too, but do what is right for you.

woknblues said:

Your temps are not so critical in the extract and partial brews (a cheap one will be fine, and you can still use for starters and whatnot later).

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+1 I didn't even think about that but yea temp control really is not as important for extract. a pot like this will do what you need and only put you out $35. Anyways your call but that would be my suggestion

Regarding the pot, I concur that the thermometer is for the moment overkill, and perhaps the ball valve too (for a good while there I had convinced myself in getting a plate chiller where I had to get the valve, but I forgot that I don't need this requirement anymore as I proceeded to get plenty lost in so many other details). Thank you.

However I will also admit that I think 5 G is too small. I like my stove, and I know a boil-over is very easy, even if I am generally pretty attentive, but a little more margin of error could be nice. Also, I am somewhat the avid cook, so I don't mind paying a bit more for a nicer pot that I might be able to use for other cooking purposes outside of brewing, what that might be, I don't know. So between adding more size to the 5G idea, up to the 8G Megapot but w/o the goodies, and getting the desirable-to-me-even-if-I-might-not-really-need-it 5mm three layer bottom with hollow handles, I would pay $71 more than the cheapest suggested 5G pot, but you guys still do end up saving me $114 from my original idea with the decked out 10G pot.

Hm, I'm trying to add the 8G pot, but it won't click (nor will the 20G for that matter). I must presume they are OOS on these two sizes. OK, they do have the Polaware 10.5 G for $90. I've added it. After reducing the carboy handle order, we've whittled down the total to $373. (I am intending to buy a test cylinder, thief, and oxygenation system from some other vendor.)

Speaking of O2 diffusers systems, do people have good things to say about this here? All I need is the 02 tank and I'm good to go? Where do I buy O2 anyway?
http://morebeer.com/products/oxygenation-partial-system.html


Following up a bit on previous advices given:
The online pricing of a burner at the nearest sporting goods store still costs more than Amazon for the burner. (And I really want to see if I can just do this indoors for now, for different reasons.)

I think I'm passing on the stir plate for now, DIY MacGyver or not, I think I'll just swirl it frequently like in the NB video. This said, should I be looking for a different kit? The reviews there at NB seem to point to a flask that might be more delicate than it should be. Hm, I think I will try to find a better Erlenmeyer somewhere else, and just buy the DME/plug separately. I think I intend to toss out some of the starter wort before pitching. Now that I look, there aren't any reviews up, but I'm considering trying the $22 starter kit at Morebeer now.
http://morebeer.com/products/yeast-starter-kit-2000-ml.html

Uhh. I think I might change the brew kettle choice for a third time already in just one post! lol. This BIAB is very intriguing! I want the thermometer back again now... LOL... I just glanced at the concept, but the idea of "no chill" seems so counter-intuitive to what I've been reading, but quick googles show plenty of members here praising the technique!

woknblues, can I just go with my original choice of 10G Megapot with valve/therm, with the possibility of BIAB in mind? If I do run into a 10G recipe, which I honestly don't expect wanting to do (?), I can just dial down the ingredients proportionately? Again, if I stay with the indoor situation, height may present an issue anyhow. OTOH, I will gladly accept alternative suggestions with a similar size/height.

Ok, I also added the Vinator, spring tip bottle wand, and bottling bucket with spigot. That adds $40 back on, or $413 total if I end up with the bare bones Polar Ware.

edit: as well as Cascade and Nugget rhizomes.

Johnny_Five said:

Following up a bit on previous advices given:
The online pricing of a burner at the nearest sporting goods store still costs more than Amazon for the burner. (And I really want to see if I can just do this indoors for now, for different reasons.)

I think I'm passing on the stir plate for now, DIY MacGyver or not,

Uhh. I think I might change the brew kettle choice for a third time already in just one post! lol. This BIAB is very intriguing! I want the thermometer back again now... LOL... I just glanced at the concept, but the idea of "no chill" seems so counter-intuitive to what I've been reading, but quick googles show plenty of members here praising the technique!

woknblues, can I just go with my original choice of 10G Megapot with valve/therm, with the possibility of BIAB in mind? If I do run into a 10G recipe, which I honestly don't expect wanting to do (?), I can just dial down the ingredients proportionately? Again, if I stay with the indoor situation, height may present an issue anyhow. OTOH, I will gladly accept alternative suggestions with a similar size/height.

Click to expand...

First, I am no expert by any means. YMMV a lot, and I saw great ideas here that I would also endorse. It is your money!!

From the top of what I can answer.

If you are looking at propane outdoor brewing, I went with a cheap and damn hot bayou/banjo burner. There are 3 or 4 decent models to chose from. I chose the less popular SP1 which is more of a jet than a precision tool (that I and some others seem able to control), this thing roars when on full tilt, but I am more than pleased with the quicker strike and boil temps and I can tune it down to a rolling boil, no prob. I have 4 batches in my 20lb tank so far using this burner. I got 5 batches at best with my old generic 60k turkey burner that was really too slow for me anyway.

With BIAB (and traditional all grain), you can most definitely dial your recipes to match your equipment. Conversely, many people do "maxi-biab" to stovetop brew. (traditional all grain has a variation as well, though I have no experience with it). There are some advantages to a "full boil", but enough people are doing it to confirm to me that it is not only possible, but good results can be achieved. I believe that a member here named "deathbrewer" has much experience in this matter. check his methods out. another good resource for BIAB is aussiehomebrewer.com and biabrewer.org. The Aussies are generally given credit with inventing or perhaps popularizing BIAB (and no chill) for various reasons, primarily related to the difficulty of securing/shipping and expense of traditional homebrew equipment, and a general lack of water. I also suspect though likely just my own perception of having met quite a few Aussies is that they like to tinker around a lot, applying engineering and sound principles to a lot of different situations or problems to overcome them. It's like an entire continent of amateur (in terms of certification, not skill) engineers. (and legit ones I am sure)

Just shooting from the hip, a 10 gallon pot will give you 5 gallon low/med gravity beer (session beers) batches for full boil BIAB. If you maxi-BIAB, it is possible to get another few gallons, or a higher gravity beer.

Most BIABers go for 80 quart(20 gallon) or higher Aluminum pots. Cheap and easy. I got my 80 qt for $60 shipped off amazon, it was on sale and I see it is around $80 ish. Still not bad at all. Incidentally, my pot is 17" tall. I can do 10 gallon session beers easily (just like the ratio in the 10 gallon pot). I wouldn't want to boil on my stove though. Way to long to reach boil (in a 20 gallon pot)

One last thing about beer gravities and equipment limitations. I am probably alone in this thought, but I tend to brew more session strength beers, and drink more session strength beers. Therefore, I see my equipment limitation as more of a natural support to the way I drink beer. If I want a barley wine, then by goodness, I will have to only settle for a 5 gallon batch max, or likely 4 gallons or so, which happens to make sense to me as I really only enjoy a barley wine a few times a year anyway. I wouldn't want 10 gallons of barley wine.

Sorry for the book, but I appreciate your situation and am always impressed with posts like yours, where someone who bothers to write out what they are thinking, instead of vague innuendo. I hope any of this helps. Good luck.

Oh wow, I didn't cover the DIY stir plate. Definitely do this. I built mine for $0.00. All I did is open up an old computer, take a computer fan and glue a hard drive magnet on the middle. I sunk the fan into a chunk of Styrofoam, and cut an old cell phone charger and put them together. It pulls a 3" vortex into a 2l Erlenmeyer.

A carboy dryer/storage thingy (set carboy upside down to dry on this unit) is cool after sanitizing, also you'll need hose for blow off's 1-14" od 1" id for the glass carboy and I think it's 1/2 ID hose is what you use for the airlock, ask NB which size, call them so you can ask questions!! (you ditch the cap and air lock piece and push the hose on the stem) and believe it you'll need a blow off.....
Also add a half dozen more air locks because you'll never get the hose off without breaking the airlock when your done, so at $1.25 roughly they're pretty much disposable. Ditch the carboy handles they are only good for when the carboy is empty, and get yourself a brewhauler for the glass one. The BB's are easy to handle full.
If your gonna steep grains (I do this in a separate smaller pot so that my main kettle is heating/boiling at the same time) a floating thermometer is good to have. Other than that your good to go. Cheers don't stress and have fun!!

woknblues, thanks for sharing your DIY stir plate. I unfortunately recycled my last computer already, HD and all. I have no idea what an HD magnet looks like or how strong one is, but I suppose if I wanted to I could just buy some certain magnet? Is something that is "fridge" strength good enough? In any case, I don't see a big deal in swirling frequently.... hm.

The BIAB has been nicely planted now in my mind for the moment. I'm even sort of considering going straight to it, bypassing a first time extract brew. Probably a bad idea, we'll see. So anyway, I ran into this very affordable combination. The burner isn't the nicest thing ever, but the price is pretty compelling to me, and it has the strainer so that I can lift the grains out easily while also not worrying about them burning, $94 for all of it out the door. I also found some 5G nylon bags, but I'm not so certain that they have an elastic top. I have yet to run a single search for either maxi-biab or deathbrewer, so don't be surprised if I make another sudden left turn somewhere. Do you give a thumbs up on these product choices?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004070QDA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BPG5R6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I'm finally starting to look a little bit at the recipes here, of course bee-lining straight to the Belgian ales. My eye immediately caught the Dooval thread for AG, and the Chimay Blue clone for extract, I love both of them (the originals, of course). Of course, my patience will be thoroughly tested with a half yr wait, but I bet it's worth it. Haha. Hm, I just a ran a search for Val-Dieu in that subforum, as I really enjoy their tripel, but no results at all, shucks!


I've added a carboy dryer thingy, thanks for the heads up on that stvo. I also removed a couple of items at NB and chose MoreBeer products instead, because for instance the latter lets me upgrade my wort chiller from 3/8" to 1/2", but for a lower cost too! I'm also going to try their yeast kit, test jar, bottle tree (looks better, and is modular as I can add to it for more capacity), thief, and plan to preorder a Northern Brewer rhizome. Basically, it's looking like I'll have rather large orders from three vendors, NB/MB/Amazon. Total is all below $600, but NB adds some significant shipping cost, and I'll still need to pick up propane and O2 tanks, so I sort of expect a ballpark total of $700 as it stands right now, all said and done.


I'm stuck on what to get for a thermometer. I don't mind paying more for something that will LAST (I've had issues with probe thermometers for cooking), quick-read so my hand doesn't get so hot, or really any particular tech is fine I guess (I could possibly splurge for a Thermapen, but would that be the right choice?), I don't even know what works best with BIAB. I do have a frying thermometer, but it's a cheap Taylor and my previous experience with a different fridge thermometer of the same brand tells me that they're extremely inaccurate, and the min temp is probably quite high. I have an IR gun, but the vapor will render it inaccurate. I've got a sometimes works sometimes doesn't KA digital probe, which has already been replaced by them once for dying. Not reliable enough for this application I'm afraid. OK I reread the last post again, somehow I forgot about the floating therm. Hm I can't find any that have good reviews. One review at NB says to try looking for a dairy thermometer, but none of those are floating so far as I see so far. edit: nevermind, I added the one at MB, simply because deathbrewer linked to it in his Easy Partial post, so I'm just going with the whole, if it's good enough for him I think it will be good enough for me? haha.


EDIT: advanced search for me really isn't one, so ran basic searches, google searches, most are just referring to deathbrewer. I found a post of his, and immediately looked towards sig links. Are either the Easy Partial Mash Brewing, or the Easy Stovetop AG the ones I should be focusing on for BIAB in particular, or is there just a different thread altogether? Thank you.

Updated shopping carts. Someone want to shove me into the deep end already? hahaha. Is the water warm?

I rounded to nearest whole dollar figures, and listed items in order of descending cost. (If you added up my rounded figures it will be a tiny bit off from what my subtotal line reads, for instance NB's cart is $2 under my "rounded total".) There are so far 27 line items among three vendors.

NORTHERN BREWER
2x Better Bottle 55
Glass Carboy 39
Bottling bucket 20
Vinator 18
Capper 17
Star San 16
Auto Siphon 14
2x rhizomes 10
Carboy Handle 7
Hydrometer 5
3x Airlocks 4
Caps 4
Siphon hose 3
Bottle filler 3
Whirfloc 2

subtotal 215 + 45 shipping (not terribly happy about it being 21% of the subtotal, but it is what it is) = 260


MOREBEER
Wort chiller 64
Oxygenation partial system 55
Yeaster starter kit 22
Bottle tree 20
Carboy drainer 6
Floating thermometer 6
Hydrometer Jar 5
Glass thief 5
Rhizome 4
Campden tables 2

subtotal 188 + 15 CA tax = 203

AMAZON
King Kooker combination burner/aluminum pot/basket 94
2x nylon strainers 5

subtotal 99 + ?


Notwithstanding the missing items of O2, propane, and recipe ingredients, the grand total for 27 line items presently stands at $562 out the door.

All said and done, it is a nice chunk of change. But I'm trying to assuage my concerns by thinking about how much a 5 gallon carboy full of Belgian Tripel might be worth, lol. Also, I'd like to try my hand at making wine with this equipment as well. Maybe "paying off" the larger outlay won't take quite as many years as I might originally guess.



Anyone have a good wine recipe/making book to recommend? (I am confused by the great selection.) My Belgian beer and hop growing books finally shipped from Amazon... gosh I do miss Prime membership sometimes... but sometimes I think they delay shipping on purpose, just to punish those who don't pony up; to artificially push up the value of Prime. [/rant]

For the stir plate I ended up buying magnets because I didn't have a HD laying around either. Ended up testing out a couple different ones before I found rare earth magnets at harbor freight.

Out of curiosity, why are you ordering from both NB and More Beer? From More Beer you get free shipping on everything but the carboys which might bring your overall cost down. Amazon has new 6 gallon better bottles for $25 each with $12 shipping combined. NB charges $25 to ship 2 Better Bottles to me (granted I'm in CA) but it seems like your not getting as much bang for your buck by ordering from 2 different places.

Have you compared your Local Home Brew Store.....mine has pretty much the same prices as the online guys....also have you checked craigslist ?

I personally would go with the buckets over the better bottles

DIY your immersion chiller ....should be able to make one for half the cost

Good luck

I use buckets, but got 2 BBs during a Northern Brewer 2 for 1 sale. I regret doing it, and wish I had more buckets.
I really don't see a reason to go glass carboy or even BB. I'm bucket all the way.

I wouldn't get a glass thief if you're getting an auto-siphon, you can use the auto-siphon as a thief: take the inner tube out of the outer tube, put the outer tube in liquid, shake up and down.

The more stuff you have the more you have to clean/store/take care of...

Johnny_Five said:

woknblues, thanks for sharing your DIY stir plate. I unfortunately recycled my last computer already, HD and all. I have no idea what an HD magnet looks like or how strong one is, but I suppose if I wanted to I could just buy some certain magnet? Is something that is "fridge" strength good enough? In any case, I don't see a big deal in swirling frequently....

Click to expand...

You'll want to use something stronger than fridge magnets. You can buy small rare earth magnets from Rat Shack, and can probably pick up an old muffin fan for a few bucks from a PC repair shop. If your community has a recycling center for electronics, maybe you can talk somebody out of an old PC case and get a fan that way. Use an old wall-wort transformer and you're in business. In any case, it's crazy to pay for a stir plate when you can build one for a fraction of that. And building your own is so much more fun.

If you absolutely insist on buying a stirrer, Bell's has the best price I've seen--$40.

tflew said:

For the stir plate I ended up buying magnets because I didn't have a HD laying around either. Ended up testing out a couple different ones before I found rare earth magnets at harbor freight.

Out of curiosity, why are you ordering from both NB and More Beer? From More Beer you get free shipping on everything but the carboys which might bring your overall cost down. Amazon has new 6 gallon better bottles for $25 each with $12 shipping combined. NB charges $25 to ship 2 Better Bottles to me (granted I'm in CA) but it seems like your not getting as much bang for your buck by ordering from 2 different places.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip about the BB shipping charge. You see the way NB has it, I CANNOT know exactly how much each item contributes to the shipping cost. Morebeer is out of all the carboys except the smallest ones (because I was thinking sort of what you were thinking, and decided to post before I ran yet even more cost-analyses, and I've run a bunch, I can quote you bubbler and 3piece airlocks from both places for instance off the top of my head; and no it wasn't worth 10 cents x2 to me to flip a couple out from one to the other). I considered getting the plastic carboys there, but they are not "Better Bottle", and yes I even attempted to research if there were any signficant differences, I failed at finding good pertinent information, and so I stuck with the brand name as at least I know they "thought somewhat about the design", a bad assumption, could be, but that's what I did for now.

And yes, I get charged tax at MB. Yes, I subtracted shipping cost vs potential tax, and yes, I think I lose around $27 assuming that MB had the exact items at the exact prices. For the time I'm already investing in shopping around, I let $27 slide for the moment. You also have to understand that both vendors don't have everything; sometimes they're OOS (like carboys at MB, or O2 kit at NB), and sometimes they just don't carry it all (I think no Vinator at MB for instance). Yes, I've researched a ton already. Not comprehensively obviously, but a good effort nonetheless.

Schumed said:

Have you compared your Local Home Brew Store.....mine has pretty much the same prices as the online guys....also have you checked craigslist ?

I personally would go with the buckets over the better bottles

DIY your immersion chiller ....should be able to make one for half the cost

Good luck

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Yes, I've compared locally, I even visited one and checked as much out as I could, even the plate chillers, variety of caps, you name it.

The BBs let me see what's going on. They also give me (true or otherwise) confidence when it's truly cleaned of any residue, without having to agitate/scrub. Oxi free is already on the way. As is TSP90. You personally go with buckets, that's cool, but you don't explain much as to why. If it's simply cost, I know that it's cheaper, of course I do.

I already watched plenty of DIY vids for chillers, and attempted to cost them out. I didn't see myself saving barely anything at all, and then there are also costs of time and car fuel. The 1/2" cooler at MB is a pretty solid deal IMO. But maybe I'm wrong: can you get me 25' of 1/2" copper tubing with hose fittings for $32? And I mean out the door, tax, shipping, all included? If you then tell me, "well maybe not half cost at 25' but I sure can at 50'", you have to understand this likely would be overbuying as the height of coils would stick well above the wort level for most of the pots I've been looking at. I don't want to hassle with a DIY counterflow or whirpool with a pump, as the pump is what finally convinced me not to splurge for the plate system.

m_stodd said:

I use buckets, but got 2 BBs during a Northern Brewer 2 for 1 sale. I regret doing it, and wish I had more buckets.
I really don't see a reason to go glass carboy or even BB. I'm bucket all the way.

I wouldn't get a glass thief if you're getting an auto-siphon, you can use the auto-siphon as a thief: take the inner tube out of the outer tube, put the outer tube in liquid, shake up and down.

The more stuff you have the more you have to clean/store/take care of...

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Please explain your regrets. You find it difficult to clean? You've tried swirling oxi free, and it didn't work? You're afraid of it cracking, because you aerate by rocking, without possession of a diffuser stone? Please guys, if you take the time to state a preference of brewing equipment, a small blurb as to why would be appreciated. I do appreciate your inputs however, don't take this in the wrong way.

I'll strike the thief off, thanks for saving me $5. Your last sentence seems like a nice little drop of wisdom coming from experience.

@JWP, thanks for the linkys. I wasn't at all absolutely insisting on buying one; if it wasn't clear, I wasn't planning on buying anything at all for auto-stirrer.

Take a look at stirstarter.com. I have one. It did not break the bank and it works. I have used everything from a therminator (I love gadgets) to a floating dairy thermometer to read temperature. Truth be told, while the dairy thermometer reads lower than the fancy one, I knew that because it showed the boiling point of water high. If you are going to mash, you will want to know the temperature of the mash. Enjoy your first brew day.

OK. I removed all fermenters, bucket, even the handle from NB, most of which I've added at MB. However, after reading a different thread here (can't remember which one it was), I've decided to forgo the cheaper Red Baron capper, and instead opt forthe Colonna corker/capper at NB (which I originally wanted). Hopefully, I won't have to worry about slow leakage during a long conditioning with Belgians, and I do hope to make wine at some point as well. While I do plan on long term Belgians and wine, I think I'm going to skip on the glass carboy for now. (And I think I've changed my mind to the largest 6.5G if I was to get one.) I'll just let a high gravity Belgian sit in the primary for a while (month?) and then straight to bottling? Hopefully the attenuation will be great enough for be not to worry about bottle bombs, if I'm not going to have a dedicated long term glass bulk storage setup.

I called my nearby Rat Shack, and they've got those rare earth magnets. At Bell's, they sell their little magnet for $1.50, so I'll pick that one up if I place any kind of order with them at all, which would be fermenters only right now if I did so. Hm, actually no I don't think I'm going to order anything at all from them, come to think of it. So anyway, the updated lists, not including Amazon as that's unchanged for now. Ok, I've decided to italicize the new and/or changed items.

NORTHERN BREWER
Colonna Capper-Corker 80
Vinator 18
Star San 16
Auto Siphon 14
2x rhizomes 10
Hydrometer 5
3x Airlocks 4
Caps 4
Siphon hose 3
Bottle filler 3
Whirfloc 2

subtotal 175 + shipping 16 = 191


MOREBEER
Wort chiller 64
Oxygenation partial system 55
2x 6 gallon plastic carboys 51
Yeaster starter kit 22
Bottle tree 20
Bottling bucket 16
Carboy drainer 6
Floating thermometer 6
four various stoppers 6
Hydrometer Jar 5
Rhizome 4
Campden tables 2

subtotal 256

Grand Total w/ Amazon: $546. So I save a modest $16 from before, this time with one less fermenter by removing the lone glass carboy, but I do get to big with the capper.

I'm getting warmer? Not a mistake to forgo the glass carboy?

I rarely use carboys at all with my beer, I use them for wine and Apfelwine. I have 6 pails and 7 carboys (only 2 are glass). I used the carboys twice in the last 2 years, once for a stout secondaried with cherry puree, and once for a bourbon aged old ale. Unless you plan on aging with oak or making fruit beers you will probably get more mileage out of extra pails. I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know how many pails you had planned on. Two carboys will be enough and the BB's are great, forget the glass.

helibrewer said:

I rarely use carboys at all with my beer, I use them for wine and Apfelwine. I have 6 pails and 7 carboys (only 2 are glass). I used the carboys twice in the last 2 years, once for a stout secondaried with cherry puree, and once for a bourbon aged old ale. Unless you plan on aging with oak or making fruit beers you will probably get more mileage out of extra pails. I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know how many pails you had planned on. Two carboys will be enough and the BB's are great, forget the glass.

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Thank you helibrewer. I do want to make wine. I see from your website, that you are an avid winemaker! Do you please have a good winemaking book to recommend for me?

Assuming that I will try wine at some point this year, should I get a glass carboy after all? Apparently, some winemakers use plastic; would you agree that plastic is fine for this application?

I noticed your Ommegang Trappist Ale in your link, I can't remember if I had it, but I'm quite a fan of their Hennepin, and I even have bought a number of the glasses (as I continue to break them occasionally). I see you keg yours, but as I will be bottling for the foreseeable future, how long would you recommend I ferment that for (you know, plus minus, say 70 deg) before I bottle? I'm getting OT here, but I just wanted to pick yer brains.

In any case, thanks for making me feel closer to having done my homework.

Johnny_Five said:

Thank you helibrewer. I do want to make wine. I see from your website, that you are an avid winemaker! Do you please have a good winemaking book to recommend for me?

Assuming that I will try wine at some point this year, should I get a glass carboy after all? Apparently, some winemakers use plastic; would you agree that plastic is fine for this application?

I noticed your Ommegang Trappist Ale in your link, I can't remember if I had it, but I'm quite a fan of their Hennepin, and I even have bought a number of the glasses (as I continue to break them occasionally). I see you keg yours, but as I will be bottling for the foreseeable future, how long would you recommend I ferment that for (you know, plus minus, say 70 deg) before I bottle? I'm getting OT here, but I just wanted to pick yer brains.

In any case, thanks for making me feel closer to having done my homework.

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I have my wine in BB's primarily. I have an Apfelwine going in my 6.5g glass right now but my Pinot and Cab Franc are both in BB's.

Look through these articles More Winemaking. Shea Comfort is extremely knowlegable and I have spent several hours consulting with him.

On your botting question, you want to get to FG, then let the beer condition and clarify for another week or two at as cold a temperature as you can get it. Then rack onto your priming sugar mixture, stir gently and bottle.

helibrewer said:

I have my wine in BB's primarily. I have an Apfelwine going in my 6.5g glass right now but my Pinot and Cab Franc are both in BB's.

Look through these articles More Winemaking. Shea Comfort is extremely knowlegable and I have spent several hours consulting with him.

On your botting question, you want to get to FG, then let the beer condition and clarify for another week or two at as cold a temperature as you can get it. Then rack onto your priming sugar mixture, stir gently and bottle.

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Thanks! I'm guessing they must be related to MoreBeer, hehe.

I forgot to ask you in my last post, but I changed from BB to "plastic carboys" at Morebeer. They're just as good, yes? (I'm saving a bit going this way, but I'm guessing that I'm good to go, especially because they might be affiliated with MoreWine.) If plastic is good enough for you and wine, then I bet it's good enough for me.

I will now perhaps do a bit of recipe reading during this weekend, and unless someone comes up and waves red flags, I'll probably go ahead and order what is in my last "grand total". Oh I also forgot to say, only two plastic carboys now for fermenters, and that's it. I suppose I better add one or two something-or-others, as I can see putting one aside for a longer fermentation early on in my brewing. Cheers.

While you have enough of an order for free shipping from MB you might want to add a couple three piece air locks + stoppers for bucket lids. When you need get going you will need more fermenters and it will only require you to find a couple food grade buckets with lids (usually available locally -cheap) and you have two more fermenters available.

Is there a reason you have buy everything all at once? Have you brewed before? You mention that you haven't picked your first recipe, that's why I ask. If you haven't done it before, I think it makes sense to start much smaller and try it.

Before spending more than $500, maybe you should try something where you can work with a lot of equip you have on hand. With a smaller extract batch you can use a 2 gallon pot. (If you don't have one, they are very cheap and very useful for other things in the kitchen, too.)

Get a plastic carboy, airlock, stopper, blowoff tube, auto siphon, and a capper. Get an extract kit and give it a try.

You'll learn more that way about what you find easiest and best. If you buy all this gear up front, you're locked into doing it that way all the time.

I'm no expert, but from what I have read and experienced, success will be based on your process and ingredients (prob in that order) way more than the gear. If you spend all that money and then pitch your yeast at 120 degrees, it won't make beer. Or you don't sanitize right. Or if you forget to add extract until the wort is cool, and then have to reheat and hope for the best (done it). It doesn't feel as bad to make mistakes like that if you haven't invested so big upfront.

Start with the basics and add on. Again, it just sounded like you haven't done it yet, that's why I point these things out.

Puddlethumper said:

While you have enough of an order for free shipping from MB you might want to add a couple three piece air locks + stoppers for bucket lids. When you need get going you will need more fermenters and it will only require you to find a couple food grade buckets with lids (usually available locally -cheap) and you have two more fermenters available.

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I have 3 airlocks in the list, for 2 plastic carboys. I will consider adding more, as someone else already said it's easy to go through them quickly. There is a likelihood that I might even order more fermementers, so in that case I likely will. OTOH, I know where the two nearest local brew supply stores are now in a worst case scenario.

ericbw said:

Is there a reason you have buy everything all at once?

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Yes, because I want to make excellent beer right from the beginning. Believe it or not I might be doing BIAB from the beginning. Believe it or not, my first batch might be sitting for half a year, haha.

There are also implied shipping cost reductions by getting it at once. And if I'm going to spend a nice chunk of change, I don't mind spending a bit more to ensure the first time goes right.

Have you brewed before?

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No.

But I got to sit in a few sessions during the last couple of months, after asking around. Two of them were AG, using huge, expensive Blichmann boilermakers; 3 and 2 people respectively (all from the food industry). The host and owner of the equipment (with dreams of opening a brewery in about a half decade from now) says I know more than he does already about the technicalities of brewing. The truth, well who knows, and I don't necessarily agree with him, but he also has not read a single book about the subject (I'll have read multiple before my brewing my first drop), and he doesn't use forums either. I also sat in during an extract brew (this guy didn't realize PBW wasn't a sanitizer, and he's never used his wort chiller yet). Anyway, of the four people I've tried learning from while actively brewing, I may have actually taught more than received with three of them.

You mention that you haven't picked your first recipe, that's why I ask. If you haven't done it before, I think it makes sense to start much smaller and try it.

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As you may be able to tell, I am trying to do things right the first time, and this has to do equally with both my time and my money.

Before spending more than $500, maybe you should try something where you can work with a lot of equip you have on hand. With a smaller extract batch you can use a 2 gallon pot. (If you don't have one, they are very cheap and very useful for other things in the kitchen, too.)

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I already have a very nice pot that should be around 2 gallons. Should I buy a fermenter for a one time use? (Or do you think enough CO2 will be produced by 2 gallons of wort in a 6 gallon fermenter to create enough a of layer to avoid oxidation?) A big issue is that I don't think I could do BIAB here. What I'm exactly trying to avoid is buying things for a one time use. You know, those wasteful dumb kits for example.

Get a plastic carboy, airlock, stopper, blowoff tube, auto siphon, and a capper. Get an extract kit and give it a try.

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Why? Look, I understand the concept. Why a kit? To waste money and time? I already know I can follow directions. If you can't already tell, I'm unlike most first time brewers because I've tried educating myself throroughly on the finer points; yes I can recite to you off the top of my head the 4 enzymes with diastatic power, which 3 work for beer, the 3 sieve sizes for both Euro and US barley markets, the ppm concentrations of a variety of molecules for a number of waters around the world, etc. I actually just received three more books on the subject, thankfully they arrived sooner than I was fearing. Yes, I'll start to read them even before I order. I'm not sure how much I'll finish by the time equipment arrives, however, I will definitely bee-line to pertinent equipment information within the two Belgian books that are now here.

What about Star San? Should I use bleach instead? Don't measure OG or FG? Forget the yeast starter, because I have to learn first what it's like not to have it? Just deal with filling bottles without the spring loaded convenience of a few dollars? Compromise on about 8 ppm of O2 IIRC what the Wyeast scientist said I'll get by shaking like crazy, instead of just about doubling that with the diffuser for one minute? I already want a bottle tree NOW! There are bottles building up in the dishwasher as I type this. Learn that I might get haze by not getting Whirlfloc to begin with? Don't get the hydrometer jar, and take inaccurate readings? Oh wait, I don't have one anymore, do I. Boil my water and let it sit, maybe previously waiting for an eternity through a Britta, to save on the Campden? Go through the hassle of sanitizing bottles without the Vinator? I understand that I don't NEED these things, but there are so many things we don't "need".

You'll learn more that way about what you find easiest and best. If you buy all this gear up front, you're locked into doing it that way all the time.

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The one way I don't want to be locked into is wasting my time with a one-use kit.

I'm no expert, but from what I have read and experienced, success will be based on your process and ingredients (prob in that order) way more than the gear. If you spend all that money and then pitch your yeast at 120 degrees, it won't make beer. Or you don't sanitize right. Or if you forget to add extract until the wort is cool, and then have to reheat and hope for the best (done it). It doesn't feel as bad to make mistakes like that if you haven't invested so big upfront.

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If you've read the thread, then you would know that I already studied counterflow, whirpools, let alone ICs, and furthermore I've studied the DIYs for them all too! I was also ready as all heck to buy the nicest plate chiller that I know of as my very first wort cooler, so do you really think I'm going to pitch at 120F?

It doesn't take rocket science to sanitize. C'mon. Please. Seriously.

Start with the basics and add on. Again, it just sounded like you haven't done it yet, that's why I point these things out.

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sigh.

I didn't say you haven't studied up. That's good to do. And because of that you might make fewer mistakes. None of this is rocket science - people were making beer before they had the word diastic.

But there is a difference between knowing about it and doing it. I'm sure lots of experienced people can admit to the weird mistake here and there. Everyone makes mistakes, and many of them are either dumb ones or poor execution. Knowing the names of enzymes won't prevent that.

My suggestion was to give it a whirl once before you buy every piece if gear. I didn't say to buy a one time use piece of gear. You'll make use of a 2 gallon bucket or a 1 gallon jug at some point.

I only mean that it's a lot of money to throw down at once. Maybe your first one will be great.

One other suggestion (not that it matters) is that aging your first one for 6 months won't give you a chance to test your results along the way. You have the potential of repeating mistakes if you can't tell if what you did the first time was good or not.

ericbw said:

I didn't say you haven't studied up. That's good to do. And because of that you might make fewer mistakes. None of this is rocket science - people were making beer before they had the word diastic.

But there is a difference between knowing about it and doing it. I'm sure lots of experienced people can admit to the weird mistake here and there. Everyone makes mistakes, and many of them are either dumb ones or poor execution. Knowing the names of enzymes won't prevent that.

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No flying crap! I'm trying not to waste time. You're wasting it.

My suggestion was to give it a whirl once before you buy every piece if gear. I didn't say to buy a one time use piece of gear. You'll make use of a 2 gallon bucket or a 1 gallon jug at some point.

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You seem so certain, but I am not. If you study the list I have created, almost everything gives my beer a better chance at being superior, or in fact is necessary, or is just so entirely convenient that it borders on necessity.

I only mean that it's a lot of money to throw down at once. Maybe your first one will be great.

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I agree that it's a nice chunk of change, but with the time I have invested already, the money is really no longer such a great sum. More importantly to me is that I'm making good product choices, something that you haven't helped with at all. In fact, you're just wasting my time, and likely wasting my money if I were to follow your advice, and furthermore resulting in much greater chances of making inferior beer.

The AG brewers that get together twice a week during the good months believed I should go straight to Blichmann Boilermakers, just one of which would be the lion's share of my comprehensive list. They've done the Igloo mash tuns, and they said it's just worth it to pay the great sum. He says that the disappointment of a poor batch from having inferior gear or lack of gear is thoroughly disappointing enough, that he would have gladly worked an entire day to afford getting the better gear to begin with; there is already too much time spent on a brew day. I didn't necessarily go ahead and blow my money on expensive Blichmann stuff, in fact not a single one of their products.

He also told me to straight to the bench capper. I decided to cheap out, until I read about the failing Red Baron here, where it was either hard or impossible to diagnose it was defective by visual inspection. I wavered about the corker's necessity when reading contradicting info about the necessity of cages, however now I know want to make wine anyway. I might save $16 in the long run by upgrading to begin with.

He also thought I should go AG very quickly. I told him my issue was time (as has been stated multiple times in this thread), as it seems it doubles the brew day, all said and done. We will see. He said that because of how I cook, what I know about cleaning/sanitation/sterilization/food-safety (ok not so relevant to AG, but for going big in any case), that I make my cheese, roast my coffee, etc. He says I'll want that control.

One other suggestion (not that it matters) is that aging your first one for 6 months won't give you a chance to test your results along the way. You have the potential of repeating mistakes if you can't tell if what you did the first time was good or not.

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There is a reason I was originally planning to buy 3 fermenters.

I'm looking at the lists from Northern and MB again, and the first thing that says overkill to me are the three rhizomes. I will say that lettuce greens love my garden the most out of all the things I've grown there, but those types of conditions are probably counterproductive to what hops enjoy. If my $14 experiment goes down the drain, hopefully I'll learn something from it, and enjoy the process. OTOH, maybe I'll have a few healthy strains growing up.

1. Convenience is key. Hence the Vinator, Star San, Auto Siphon, Bottle Filler, Bottle Tree, Carboy drainer. If you remove any of those, you make my life a little bit more miserable. I would get rid of the auto siphon first as a guess. How about you? You want to prioritize the impact of these conveniences for me? Consider that the most expensive item in the entire list is $20. Hm, the bottling bucket, that should be in this list too, right? Well anyway, every product in this paragraph should total to less than $100 even including that bottling bucket, yes even after tax/shipping if my quick at a glance calculations are right, including the largest possible size of convenient sanitizer that should last me an extremely long time.

2. Quality is key. Hence the deluxe capper (and I'll need it for wine, so really this is probably a requirement anyway), Hydrometer, Test Jar, Thermometer, O2 system (According to a Wyeast scientist I'll have about half the O2 by shaking vigorously for quite a long time; this can also fall under the convenience category), yeast starter, campden, whirlfloc, wort chiller. Assuming I'm completely ignoring your advice to brew a small batch and go 5 gallons (or more) to begin with, go ahead and prioritize these in order the impact on making superior beer. I suppose the Campden and Whirfloc should rank as the lowest priority, but thats only $4 for both combined. Ignoring the "corker requirement", I would guess* that the order of importance would be Hydrometer, Test Jar, Thermometer, Yeast Starter, Wort Chiller, O2 system. Want to prioritize for me? Think about that: You're advising me to give up these 6 items that are well known to be excellent aids in making better beer, because "I might make a mistake"? I think the mistake would be to listen to you in not obtaining these proven tools. The fact is your advice would lead me towards inferior beer, the very thing I am trying to avoid.

3. Requirements? Ok, I'll compare against what you posted. "plastic carboy, airlock, stopper, blowoff tube, auto siphon, and a capper. Get an extract kit and give it a try." OK I think other requirements you didn't list are caps. Hm, glancing at your shopping list, I'm not sure that an auto siphon is a requirement. I could try to obtain flip top bottles I suppose, so maybe even a capper isn't a requirement.

In the three above paragraphs are everything from my comprehensive list, save for the +10 gallon pot/burner/nylon from Amazon ($99 total).

Johnny_Five said:

No flying crap! I'm trying not to waste time. You're wasting it. .

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+1 to ericbw's advice

You can make beer with a good 30 qt. SS brewpot (which you will continue to find uses for) and a 6 gallon plastic bucket with an airlock (which you will also continue to find uses for). Total cost - less than $100. If you don't make any mistakes the first batch - great - you've got some good equipment and some experience - If you do screw something up you also have some experience and some knowlege about what will really work in your kitchen/basement/garage ...whatever. If you get burned out after a while and give up the hobby you still have a 30 qt. pot you can use for a crab boil.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a noob at this myself. But I've made over a dozen batches in the last six months, over half have been all-grain without a whole bunch of the stuff on your list. But it sounds like you already know what you want to do. But you are still talking about it, asking a lot of questions and then, from your last post, arguing and taking offense to well intended advice.

So my advice is to get off the fence and do it. The difference between most of us here and what you are doing is that we are brewing beer.

Easy there! It struck me as funny that you would start with a million gallon pot and 19 carboys (yes, I am exaggerating) but haven't done any of it yet.

I was simply suggesting that you try it and see how it goes before spending that much money at once. I asked some questions and made suggestions. Don't take them if they're not for you.

And btw, I didn't think hop rhizomes were a bad idea. Of all the stuff there, it might make the most sense, because apparently you have gardened before. If you were going to buy a tractor, plow, discer, combine, etc. having never planted anything, well, then I might find it unusual, too.

Puddlethumper said:

+1 to ericbw's advice

You can make beer with a good 30 qt. SS brewpot (which you will continue to find uses for) and a 6 gallon plastic bucket with an airlock (which you will also continue to find uses for). Total cost - less than $100. If you don't make any mistakes the first batch - great - you've got some good equipment and some experience - If you do screw something up you also have some experience and some knowlege about what will really work in your kitchen/basement/garage ...whatever. If you get burned out after a while and give up the hobby you still have a 30 qt. pot you can use for a crab boil.

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So?

My thread title bluntly states >$500 to begin with. If I'm willing to spend that much (and my advisers told me I'd want double that, believe it or not), do you really think I'd spend the time creating the thread, shopping it all, that I'd want to spend less then $100 at this point? Seriously?

I've made over a dozen batches in the last six months, over half have been all-grain without a whole bunch of the stuff on your list. But it sounds like you already know what you want to do. But you are still talking about it, asking a lot of questions and then, from your last post, arguing and taking offense to well intended advice.

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It was the ongoing irrelevance that was irking me. Irrelevance. "But you are still talking about it", yes look at the thread title, my first request. Then as "lots of questions" I'm grab them ALL for you, and by buying right the first time, I do save money. Outside of the very first post, in fact my very post at this forum, here are all the questions I have ever asked here, excluding the one or two rhetorical questions:

Regarding my choice of 10 gallon pot, I could probably do something like 7.5 gallons if I wanted to increase batch, right?

Speaking of O2 diffusers systems, do people have good things to say about this here? All I need is the 02 tank and I'm good to go? Where do I buy O2 anyway?

(Regarding the shift toward BIAB capability, therefore burner + strainer) Do you give a thumbs up on these product choices?

I could possibly splurge for a Thermapen, but would that be the right choice?

(In searching for BIAB techniques) Are either the Easy Partial Mash Brewing, or the Easy Stovetop AG the ones I should be focusing on for BIAB in particular, or is there just a different thread altogether?

(Re the advice given to build instead of buy the chiller at half the cost) The 1/2" cooler at MB is a pretty solid deal IMO. But maybe I'm wrong: can you get me 25' of 1/2" copper tubing with hose fittings for $32? And I mean out the door, tax, shipping, all included?

(Asking about an unexplained preference for plastic pail fermenters, which was never answered) You find it difficult to clean? You've tried swirling oxi free, and it didn't work? You're afraid of it cracking, because you aerate by rocking, without possession of a diffuser stone?

Assuming that I will try wine at some point this year, should I get a glass carboy after all?

(edit, I missed this one) I forgot to ask you in my last post, but I changed from BB to "plastic carboys" at Morebeer. They're just as good, yes?

(Then just earlier today, re the advice to delete almost the entire list that I've toiled over) You want to prioritize the impact of these conveniences for me?

(Same as above, regarding impact on quality assuming that I did want to strike more items from the list, which I don't think I do) Want to prioritize for me?

There are the questions you refer to. All of them. How many have you answered for me? Yes, apparently I'm thinking bigger than most first time brewers. I'm certainly not looking for advice about going bare bones.

So my advice is to get off the fence and do it. The difference between most of us here and what you are doing is that we are brewing beer.

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No flying crap, Master Of The Obvious. This is helpful? Really?

I am impatient indeed, and like I said in the very first post, I am truly on the cusp but thought it was a good idea to have people review my shopping list, and I got some welcome advice that I am thankful for. I will wait a tad bit longer when I will want to peruse my new Belgian books in regards to equipment before I pull the trigger, as they are now here.

ericbw said:

Easy there! It struck me as funny that you would start with a million gallon pot and 19 carboys (yes, I am exaggerating) but haven't done any of it yet.

I was simply suggesting that you try it and see how it goes before spending that much money at once. I asked some questions and made suggestions. Don't take them if they're not for you.

And btw, I didn't think hop rhizomes were a bad idea. Of all the stuff there, it might make the most sense, because apparently you have gardened before. If you were going to buy a tractor, plow, discer, combine, etc. having never planted anything, well, then I might find it unusual, too.

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Alright, I'll take it easy. If you read my posts here (because I honestly am not so sure how much or carefully you read them), well, your advice is really .... awkward.... Like I want to build a great computer, was told to go $4000 and could well do it, but here is what I'm doing at $2000 and here are the 30 parts so far I have compiled, and then you say, you might make a mistake, why don't you build one for under $400. Then you say this part and that part will still be useful after you upgrade already on your second batch, because you will cook crabs with them. (BTW, the negative reviews with the King Kooker say it pits easily with vinegars and such, but brewers seem to give it a thumbs up; the point is that it will likely be a "unitasker" as Alton Brown likes to put it, and my eyes are open about that.)

Johnny_Five said:

So?

My thread title bluntly states >$500 to begin with. If I'm willing to spend that much (and my advisers told me I'd want double that, believe it or not), do you really think I'd spend the time creating the thread, shopping it all, that I'd want to spend less then $100 at this point? Seriously?

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Hey, it's your money and this is still America. Do whatever you want with it. Me? I've got a batch of Brown Porter to brew up this afternoon and a few homebrews to drink while I'm at it.

And I totally agree with you about the importance of not wasting time. For me, I'm going to stop following this thread.

Good luck bud!

Puddlethumper said:

Hey, it's your money and this is still America. Do whatever you want with it. Me? I've got a batch of Brown Porter to brew up this afternoon and a few homebrews to drink while I'm at it.

And I totally agree with you about the importance of not wasting time. For me, I'm going to stop following this thread.

Good luck bud!

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Agreed. Ignore list. Can't answer a damn question. Wastes my time.

Johnny, you started out an eager noob, but ended something else.

The posters here were sincere with their interest in helping you. Your disrespectful replies to them are terrible and not what this forum is about.

I've closed this thread since the OP couldn't continue it without embarrassing himself more and disrespecting our members.