Wyeast 3711 -- I'm officially impressed

i just used 3711, pitched a 1L starter @ about 74-75 deg, had airlock activity within 5-6 hours, but I have the weirdest krausen. It's been moving right along for 4 days now, and it is a thick (viscous) and bubbly krausen, but it's only about 3/4 inch high. I was expecting something massive from all the accounts I've read.

passedpawn said:

Be careful with this yeast. I just made a Belgian Tripel IPA. It's gone from 1.082 to 1.007 in 16 days. It might still be dropping. I know for a fact that it has dropped from 1.013 to 1.007 in the last 6 days.

I would consider skipping the sugar addition on a saison or belgian. Or mash high. Or both. My tripel is starting to get a slight alcohol bite that I'm not really happy about. I really hope it is done (it's almost at 10% ABV - ugh). My recipe has 9% beet sugar.

Unfortunately, I did a double infusion mash to maximize the fermentability. Woops.

Also, this yeast seems to be a very poor flocculator. I cold crash and gelatin, so I know I'll be able to knock it down. But for others who don't, there might be a long period for clearing. Of course, since it is still (apparently ) fermenting, I guess I shouldn't expect the yeast to have dropped yet.

Here's a picture of a saison I made with this yeast. You can see that it did not clear well (but is a very fine drink... take my word for it). I don't believe I used gelatin on this beer

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Its been a week and a half since I've brewed my saison with it. I transfered to secondary 2 days ago and its already starting to clear sitting at 78 degrees. Not sure why your having trouble with yours. I will take a pic of it in a few.
EDIT: Here is my ingredient list. No clearing agents at all and it will probably get another 2 -3 weeks before cold crashing. If its already starting to clear after 2 days I'm sure it will be fine for me. The carboy on the left is the Belgian Wit style ingredients using this yeast. Curious to see how that turns out.

1.50 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 13.04 %
6.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 52.17 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 17.39 %
1.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 8.70 %
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.20 %] (40 min) Hops 19.2 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [3.80 %] (15 min) Hops 3.6 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.40 %] (5 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 oz Grains of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 8.70 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale

Hard to see in the pic but the top 2" can be seen all the way through easily.

This yeast was such a pleasure to use compared to 3724 which I am STILL fighting with after 6+ weeks. I will take a gravity reading sometime later this week and if the TG is in the single digits I will probably go ahead and keg it because I need beer in the pipeline. Montanaandy

dcHokie said:

i just used 3711, pitched a 1L starter @ about 74-75 deg, had airlock activity within 5-6 hours, but I have the weirdest krausen. It's been moving right along for 4 days now, and it is a thick (viscous) and bubbly krausen, but it's only about 3/4 inch high. I was expecting something massive from all the accounts I've read.

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my krausen was fairly minimal also. good beer nonetheless!

Montanaandy said:

This yeast was such a pleasure to use compared to 3724 which I am STILL fighting with after 6+ weeks. I will take a gravity reading sometime later this week and if the TG is in the single digits I will probably go ahead and keg it because I need beer in the pipeline. Montanaandy

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After much comparison I have to disagree, somewhat. 3711 is a lot easier to use, but really doesn't make a great tasting Saison. I'm very intrigued by the option of starting with 3724 and then using 3711 to polish it off, but a plain 3711 Saison has a lot of odd off-flavors and isn't what I'm looking for in the genre. It's somewhat close, though, and the version I pitched with Roeselaire turned out pretty well 4 months later.

So I certainly wouldn't recommend against this yeast, but I can't endorse it from my experience if you're looking to use it to make a straight Saison--3724 is a _ton_ more work but makes a really great-tasting final product. 3711 is much easier to use and it definitely attenuates amazingly well, and it's not bad, but it doesn't really make a great final product on its own. I am quite hopeful that a mix of 3724 as the starter and 3711 to finish up will be easy to use and give a delicious end product.

SumnerH said:

After much comparison I have to disagree, somewhat. 3711 is a lot easier to use, but really doesn't make a great tasting Saison. I'm very intrigued by the option of starting with 3724 and then using 3711 to polish it off, but a plain 3711 Saison has a lot of odd off-flavors and isn't what I'm looking for in the genre. It's somewhat close, though, and the version I pitched with Roeselaire turned out pretty well 4 months later.

So I certainly wouldn't recommend against this yeast, but I can't endorse it from my experience if you're looking to use it to make a straight Saison--3724 is a _ton_ more work but makes a really great-tasting final product. 3711 is much easier to use and it definitely attenuates amazingly well, and it's not bad, but it doesn't really make a great final product on its own. I am quite hopeful that a mix of 3724 as the starter and 3711 to finish up will be easy to use and give a delicious end product.

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Interesting to read your comments which are much appreciated. As I have stated in prior posts, I am still struggling with 3724 but I will say that the samples have smelled and tasted great. It has just been a bear to get it to get down to TG.

I suspected that there had to be a bit of a trade off in using 3711 in that it is much more cooperative and easy to use compared to 3724.

I agree that the next time I use 3724 I will use 3711 if the gravity is stuck.

I will say that I have learned quite a bit about 3724 and the next time that I brew with it I will be better prepared in terms of initial fermentation temps (as high as I can get them) and how this yeast acts. I did wash the yeast and I have read that it is easier to use in successive generations so that gives me some comfort.

I think that there is a place for both 3724 & 3711. When I have the time/inclination to use 3724 and get what could perhaps be termed a more traditiional Saison I will use that. When I want a quick and painless Saison that is perhaps not quite as traditional I will use 3711. I believe that each will produce a great beer either way. Montananady

android said:

my krausen was fairly minimal also. good beer nonetheless!

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thanks android, that's reassuring. mine is below, it's been chugging along slowly but surely, but much more conservatively than i was anticipating. From what I'd heard about this strain & factoring in a couple LBs of wheat in my grain bill I was expecting a blowoff....I had a good crush, decent efficiency, hit my OG, and my temps were in range, couldn't think of anything 'off' here, so the thin krausen was slightly disconcerting. Eh, I'm probably just obsessing b/c it's the only thing I've got in primary right now. I just pulled it outta the swamp to let it warm a bit...

yeah, i had almost 25% wheat in mine and my krausen looked almost identical to yours.

I pitched mine on Sunday and had a nice krausen by Monday afternoon, and by Tuesday afternoon the krausen had already dropped back in. Today (wed) it looks like its done...gotta take a gavity reading later
(EDIT...1.010). It was fermenting at 80-84. I wonder if this is too high? seems like most of you are maxing out @ ~ 78*, what does everyone think?

Saturday I pitched at 18:00. OG was 1.071. Took a reading today , it just under 1.010. Looks like a couple of more days and she's done. I also fermented around 80. This is my first saison with this strain. Like JNye, i hope the higher temps will not screw it up.
So far it tasted pretty good. 3711 kicks some serious butt.

BigBadMikey said:

Saturday I pitched at 18:00. OG was 1.071. Took a reading today , it just under 1.010. Looks like a couple of more days and she's done. I also fermented around 80. This is my first saison with this strain. Like JNye, i hope the higher temps will not screw it up.
So far it tasted pretty good. 3711 kicks some serious butt.

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I hope so too but I doubt that the higher temps will hurt anything. I put mine on a Brew Mat + insulation to get things started and I ended up in the mid-high 80'F for several days. As we all know, this yeast churned like a monster for several days. Took it off that after about 5 days and wrapped the heating pad + insulation around it and held the temp around the mid 70'F for the next several days. Saw that any real activity had stopped and took the heating pad off and just kept the insulation on. Held at about 68'F for a while and now is down to 66'F which is at the low end for this yeast. I am going to take a gravity reading in the next day or two to see where I am at and will go from there. Montanaandy

Is a blow off needed for this yeast? I am about to use this yeast next week.

I ferment in a 7 gallon conical. It did not come close to the blowoff port. However, if you ferment in a carboy I would recommend a blowoff.

I needed one pretty much from the start. I did add 1 lb of sugar though so there was a ton of food for the yeast to feed on. Montanaandy

Tim27 said:

Is a blow off needed for this yeast? I am about to use this yeast next week.

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In 3 batches with this yeast I haven't had anything close to a blowoff. I do a controlled temp fermentation for the first 2 days, tho (~ 75).

I haven't needed a blowoff, but I've never needed one. I do use fermcap in the boil though.

I didn't need a blowoff; it ferments well, but it's not explosive like a hefe or trappist yeast.

This was my first saison, and I used 3711. First, the fermentation was outstanding - very consistent with what everyone else has posted.

With rgards to taste - I was quite impressed with the final product. However, I kept the initial fermentation temps low - mid 60's - and allowed it to ramp to room temp (low 70s) over a few days. I also added spices - cardamon, lemon zest and black pepper - to the boil - maybe I cheated.

I will say that my saison took a long time to carb, but I cold crashed for nearly a week before bottling and I'm not sure that my priming sugar was uniformly distributed.

This beer has gotten better and better - i'm at 2 months in bottles right now and wish I had slowed down the consumption. My OG was 1.65 and it finished at 1.005 - impressive.

I'm definitely making this again and adding more spices and waiting at least a month before opening anything!

Try it once without the spices. You might like it!

Quick question, just kegged mine (after one month in primary) and is sitting under pressure at room temperature73ish, would you guys leave at room temp or move over fridge and cool to about 60? OG1.074 TG 1.004...it's a beast. Second, how long would you keg condition? I was planning to leave at room temps for 2 weeks to a month, then move to kegerator and put on the gas for 2weeks to a month. Sound reasonable?

I just took a TG reading with my SG Refractometer - I at the 2 week point. Plugged in my numbers (Refractometer OG=1.082 TG=1.032) did the conversion and I am down to TG 1.001 & ABV 10.56%. Holy $%#@!. Had a taste and it tasted fine, dry and very strong. So should I pull this off of the yeast (and wash it) sometime this weekend and put it into a keg to condition at room temp for at least 2 weeks, perhaps longer OR should I just leave it in primary for another week or two and then keg to drink it? Montanaandy.

Hope I don't double post on this (posted but it disappeared).

My TG was/is actually 1.006 and not 1.001. I accidentally plugged in the OG from the 3724 into the calculations. Caught the error and made the adjustment. Still very impressed with this yeast. Montanaandy

I just made my first Saison this week and started it with 3724 on Wednesday around 5PM, SG-1.066 and it was actively fermenting within 3 hours. The fermenter temp was 87F. I shut off the heating pad Friday morning when the fermentation started slowing down and let the fermenter cool to the mid 70's. Friday night around 11PM I pitched my starter of 3711, which was my plan all along to see how using these yeasts together turns out. The fermentor was around 76F and the gravity was 1.038. This morning It had a nice average krausen going again. I'm excited to see how this turns out

passedpawn said:

Be careful with this yeast. I just made a Belgian Tripel IPA. It's gone from 1.082 to 1.007 in 16 days.

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Bottling this Houblon Chouffe clone today. Final gravity 1.004. (82-4)/82 * 100% = 95% apparent attenuation. Recipe is 11% sugar. That's insane.

SumnerH said:

After much comparison I have to disagree, somewhat. 3711 is a lot easier to use, but really doesn't make a great tasting Saison. I'm very intrigued by the option of starting with 3724 and then using 3711 to polish it off, but a plain 3711 Saison has a lot of odd off-flavors and isn't what I'm looking for in the genre. It's somewhat close, though, and the version I pitched with Roeselaire turned out pretty well 4 months later.

So I certainly wouldn't recommend against this yeast, but I can't endorse it from my experience if you're looking to use it to make a straight Saison--3724 is a _ton_ more work but makes a really great-tasting final product. 3711 is much easier to use and it definitely attenuates amazingly well, and it's not bad, but it doesn't really make a great final product on its own. I am quite hopeful that a mix of 3724 as the starter and 3711 to finish up will be easy to use and give a delicious end product.

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I haven't even used 3711 but honestly am not tempted. I've used 3724 several times and agree that it is indeed "moody", but the results are simply amazing. It just needs some heat, and more importantly--time. It takes a bit of planning, but for me, the results are worth the extra effort.

ThoricourtBrewing said:

I haven't even used 3711 but honestly am not tempted. I've used 3724 several times and agree that it is indeed "moody", but the results are simply amazing. It just needs some heat, and more importantly--time. It takes a bit of planning, but for me, the results are worth the extra effort.

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There was a time when you hadn't tried 3724.

Don't fear the unknown.

passedpawn said:

There was a time when you hadn't tried 3724.

Don't fear the unknown.

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Or....if it's not broke, don't fix it! Maybe I should split the next saison just to be sure.

ThoricourtBrewing said:

Or....if it's not broke, don't fix it! Maybe I should split the next saison just to be sure.

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Well, yes, I agree. In fact, it might be that 3724 make the best saison.

However, for me and most of the others here, this is not a job (where consistency is the rule). It's about experimentation, exploring the flavors available from just a handful of ingredients.

I almost always split my 10g batches and try variations to see where they go. It's how we grow, n'est-ce pas?

I feel the same way about 3711. I love the beer it makes so much I'm not tempted to try 3724, especially after hearing all the horror stories.

A friend of mine came by yesterday for a jar of my 3711. His 3724 saison, with an OG of 1.065, was stuck at 1.030. Ouch. We'll see if 3711 can bring it down. He's kept the saison in his garage (in FL, that is warm!).

passedpawn said:

A friend of mine came by yesterday for a jar of my 3711. His 3724 saison, with an OG of 1.065, was stuck at 1.030. Ouch. We'll see if 3711 can bring it down. He's kept the saison in his garage (in FL, that is warm!).

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3724 is known to get stuck at 1.030---just needs lots of time. I've heard of several people who use 3724 and then dry it out with another strain. I've contemplated doing the same thing but honestly don't mind wait. 3724 will finish if given time and heat (and maybe a swirl every now and then).

ThoricourtBrewing said:

3724 is known to get stuck at 1.030---just needs lots of time. I've heard of several people who use 3724 and then dry it out with another strain. I've contemplated doing the same thing but honestly don't mind wait. 3724 will finish if given time and heat (and maybe a swirl every now and then).

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Yea, I think he's tired of waiting. It's been going for a while.

He added the 3711 yesterday. He emailed me this morning and said it's bubbling away again.

Finally took a gravity reading on my Saison last night, 3711 is a monster. It finished real, real low. The sample was tasty and reminds me a bit of Great Divide's Colette (I was shooting for a similar straw-like yellow SRM ~4). I can't wait to have this carbed up with a nice farmy head!

dcHokie said:

Finally took a gravity reading on my Saison last night, 3711 is a monster. It finished real, real low. The sample was tasty and reminds me a bit of Great Divide's Colette (I was shooting for a similar straw-like yellow SRM ~4). I can't wait to have this carbed up with a nice farmy head!

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What is real, real low?

Kegged my 3711 Saison today after 3+ weeks. Refractometer reading indicated that it got down to 1.0015 (1.001) which is amazing. Did not taste a sample but it sure smelled nice. Anxious to taste it in a week or so. Montanaandy

Montanaandy said:

Kegged my 3711 Saison today after 3+ weeks. Refractometer reading indicated that it got down to 1.0015 (1.001) which is amazing. Did not taste a sample but it sure smelled nice. Anxious to taste it in a week or so. Montanaandy

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How do you measure gravity with such precision?

here's a photo of my 3711 saison:



turning out to be a very nice beer. i get a slight wine note with this yeast, anyone else?

passedpawn said:

What is real, real low?

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i think it was 1.003

I just bottled my saison with 3711, finished at 1.004, very dry, tart and little funk. I just pitched a Belgian Strong Ale onto the cake, and in 4 hours it was off again like a rocket. First time with this yeast, so far I am impressed!
I expect many a happy night from these little guys!

Where do you guys get those great glasses? BTW, that looks just like mine!