Possible Brett in my wild cider, what temp to ferment?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

emr454

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
171
Reaction score
2
So I started a batch of cider using wild yeast from raspberries. The other day I noticed a white film and "pizza bubbles" covering the top of the cider, which another forum member in another thread said was a dead giveaway to Brett. This appeared as soon as fermentation seemed to slow down. I smelled it and it doesn't smell much different than before, except the faint acetic smell is gone now. If it is Brett, should I leave it in the basement at 70 degrees, or does Brett prefer warmer/colder temps?

I haven't checked the gravity of the cider at all since fermentation began, and I haven't tasted it either, so who knows how it will turn out.

Eric
 
Here are a couple pics to show what this looks like. It's kind of hard to see because the Brett/film/whatever it is has coated the inside of the glass in spots, but you can see the "pizza bubbles" really well.



 
Wyeast lists their Bretts as 60F - 75F. But I think it will continue doing it's work at hotter or colder temps just fine.

I mean who thinks about off flavors from using Brett to warm.
 
I was thinking of one day getting some dregs from Lindeman's Cuvee Rene and making a gallon of cider with it. Guess I don't have to now.

Eric
 
I made some cider with Brett B a few months back. I cold crashed before it ate up all the sugars. I think I stopped it at around 1.024 to make a sweet cider simular to JKS Scrumpy.

After a few months of aging in the bottles it picked up some nice mango/pinappleish flavors.

as for temp id keep it cool id try in the low 59-62 range, by any means if you intend to stop fermentation by cold crashing and racking you will be able to monitor it as it goes, brett is very hungry and will dry that cider out and fast from my experience.

Good luck
 
I am plaqued with intermittent infection, always with the same sharp, high pitched , vinegary taste. I always taste my beers at bottling and have never detected an infection going into the bottle. So infection obviously involves the bottling process.

The bottling bucket looks good and should yield constant infection if that's the culprit and this is not the case. I use the same tubes to rack from primary to secondary and never have any off taste going into the bottle.

I soak every bottle in bleach solution for 24 hrs, drain it, cap it, and then rinse before bottling. I soak my bottle fillers continually in a bleach solution. When bottling, I use hospital alcohol sanitizing solution on my freaking hands. It is always my most anticipated brew that gets it, but only about 1 in 8 to 10overall. Any ideas????!!!
 
Do you have multiple fermenters Dave? I was getting an intermittent infection and found the cause to be one of my fermenters which had some damage to it. Just a thought, good luck
 
I do have multiple fermentors, both of my recent infections would have been a 6.5 better bottle system as the primary, but again, I always taste these brews at bottling and have never been able to detect any off taste from what's left in the bottling bucket. Also, I never see any "ropes" or anything visually wrong with the beer. I am going to replace my bottle fillers, although I keep them continually soaking in a bleach solution.
 
as for temp id keep it cool id try in the low 59-62 range, by any means if you intend to stop fermentation by cold crashing and racking you will be able to monitor it as it goes, brett is very hungry and will dry that cider out and fast from my experience.

Good luck

I would like to know what the gravity is reading now, but I don't want to disturb the pellicle. Any idea how long before it drops? How low do you think it will take the gravity? It started at 1.052 not quite a month ago.

Eric
 
Pediococcus generates sourness and lactic acid. It is a separate genus from lactobacillus, so it's not technically a lactobacillus. Both genera are in the Lactobacillaceae family, though, so they are fairly closely related. Tthe third genus in that family is paralactobacillus.
 
Does anyone know what Pediococcus tastes like? I think it might also be a Lactobacilli?

It is sour, but also produced copious amounts of diacetyl, without brett to clean it up it will taste like drinking butter

I had a cider that I used apples in go that direction, at the time I didnt know better and pitched it, man was it a butter bomb though
 
Well, I did it, I took a sample of my cider just to taste it. I didn't take enough for a hydrometer sample because it would take about 8oz to fill my test jar, and that would take quite a bit out of my 1 gallon batch.

Anywho, it smelled of mango, pineapple and maybe a hint of orange and grapefruit, citrus big time. It tasted just like the smell, fruity, citrusy but not tart or sour at all. It definitely didn't taste or smell of apples at all. I would say it was semi-sweet. No off flavors or smells were detected. If this is what the finished product is going to taste like I would be happy, though it could be a little bit drier/tart than it currently is.

This gives me hope that it isn't some harmful bacteria, but whatever it is has only been working for a few days. I'm sure it won't show its full affect on flavor for a few months. May God grant me the patience to keep my hands off it for that long!

Eric
 
Here is a pic of the sample I took before I drank it:



It is still very cloudy in the carboy. It is going to take a long time to clear up.

Eric
 
I would like to know what the gravity is reading now, but I don't want to disturb the pellicle. Any idea how long before it drops? How low do you think it will take the gravity? It started at 1.052 not quite a month ago.

Eric


Normal sach yeast will take a cider down below 1.00, this being brett its going to take it down there maybe a point or 2 lower being that it can eat up all the complex sugars. in regards to the pellicle, dont worry about disturbing it, it will reform. my guess is that your already at 1.00 if its been a few weeks.

as for the flavors the mangoish flavors are definatly brett.

Good luck
 
Here is a pic of the sample I took before I drank it:



It is still very cloudy in the carboy. It is going to take a long time to clear up.

Eric

Cold crash it at 34 degrees for a few days, rack it in to a fresh carboy, re chill it for a few days, then rerack it again. this should clear it it up quite well
 
Cold crash it at 34 degrees for a few days, rack it in to a fresh carboy, re chill it for a few days, then rerack it again. this should clear it it up quite well

Will I be able to bottle carb after cold crashing? I prefer carbed cider but I can do this one still if need be.

Also, even though there is a pellicle, I can still try to wash and re-use this yeast, correct?

Eric
 
Will I be able to bottle carb after cold crashing? I prefer carbed cider but I can do this one still if need be.

Also, even though there is a pellicle, I can still try to wash and re-use this yeast, correct?

Eric

if you follow the procedure i explained then you will not be able to carb the cider. i use this procedure for when i want to stop cider fermentation before the cider is totally dried out. essentially you are creating a stuck fermentation but stressing the yeast. if you want to carb this you might want to just carb it as usual, then once its carbed store the bottles cold for a few weeks to clear them up.

As for rewashing the yeast, its going to be a mixture of yeast strains, the brett the yeast you used for fermentation as well as any bacteria in there. one of the strains will become dominant and most likely you will have a mutated yeast strain. might turn out well, you might also find that its bad. over time it may even change but yes you can wash it the way you would with regular yeast
 
if you follow the procedure i explained then you will not be able to carb the cider. i use this procedure for when i want to stop cider fermentation before the cider is totally dried out. essentially you are creating a stuck fermentation but stressing the yeast. if you want to carb this you might want to just carb it as usual, then once its carbed store the bottles cold for a few weeks to clear them up.

As for rewashing the yeast, its going to be a mixture of yeast strains, the brett the yeast you used for fermentation as well as any bacteria in there. one of the strains will become dominant and most likely you will have a mutated yeast strain. might turn out well, you might also find that its bad. over time it may even change but yes you can wash it the way you would with regular yeast

Well the yeast I used was caught wild from the fresh berries I added to the apple juice, so probably wild Sacch, as well as Brett.

When you used Brett in your cider, how long did you ferment, and did cold crashing cause the pellicle to drop?

Eric
 
The brett i used was Brett b, i fermented it for about 2 weeks and cold crashed it. the pellicle didnt form while i fermented it, however it did form while it was in the bottles.

Take a gravity sample, see how it is, if you like it now cold crash it and bottle it. The pellicle might take months to drop. Im not really sure, this was the first time ive used brett in a cider. I wanted to make a wild tasting cider without having to catch the wild yeast
 
Back
Top