Hops Question - Irish Red

I am attempting a Sam Adams Irish Red clone this weekend. Their website states that they use Kent Golding, Fuggles and Hallertau. I'm ordering from brewmasterswarehouse.com and used their Brew Builder program to build the clone. I'm having trouble figuring when to add the hops to get the recommended 25 IBU's. The program shows I can add 1oz K.G. @ 60 minutes and 1 oz of both Fuggles and Hallertau @ 12 mins...OR...I can do 1oz of both KG and Fuggles, and .5oz of Hallertau @ 30 mins. And there are any number of amount/time combinations that will get me 25 IBU's. But should I be using one hop for bittering and other's for aroma/flavor? Any recommendations will be appreciated as I'm kinda new at this! If you were wondering, the other ingredients are 6lbs Briess caramel 60 and 5lbs Briess pale malt.

Whoa there! 6lbs of caramel?

I haven't tried Sam Adams version but if you want it "to style" Irish Reds are malt forward so I'd go for the longer boil and avoid any late additions.

My Irish Red is usually 1 90 m addition & 45m / 30m at the latest.

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style09.php#1d

6lbs of caramel 60 is a whole lot and 5lb pale malt is very little. You should probably have about 10lb pale malt in there. You should have a little bit of roasted malt for color, maybe some toffee-type malt, no flavor or aroma hops, and possibly some adjuncts.

Ha! yeah....i kinda thought that might be a little much....but the calcluations work...at least in the Brew Builder...
OG 1.058,
FG 1.015,
ABV 5.63
IBU's 25
SRM 29.09 (This appears Dark for a RED, but this is what the S.A. website shows.)
Using S-04 yeast

WarEagleBrewer said:

Ha! yeah....i kinda thought that might be a little much....but the calcluations work...at least in the Brew Builder...
OG 1.058,
FG 1.015,
ABV 5.63
IBU's 25
SRM 29.09 (This appears Dark for a RED, but this is what the S.A. website shows.)
Using S-04 yeast

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"Working" in software and tasting good aren't the same thing. An SRM of 29 is ridiculously dark for an Irish Red. If you want it to actually be red, you should aim for something closer to 14-16.

SA must mean EBC not SRM. 30 SRM is nearly black.

DO NOT use 6lbs of crystal in this or any beer. it will be cloyingly sweet. drop it to around 1lb ( 2lb max) and use a few oz of roasted barley to get you the rest of the color, around 14-16 SRM like danielbt said

in regards to the hops. theres an endless combination that will get you 25 IBUs, but while its the same bitterness, it has varying flavor/aroma. the 60min add gives no flavor/aroma just bitterness, the 30min gives a lil flavor & softer bittness, and the 12min gives alot of flavor & some aroma and little bitterness. 2oz of hops @12mins is too much late hops for an Irish Red, your 2nd example is better

I'm not sure how red the Crystal 60 will be. Crystal 120 gives a nice red.

Well...then I probably just wasted about $30....i did not know this, but when you "create" a brew with the brewbuilder software, and then purchase said recipe, brewmasterwarehouse.com mixes all the grains together....i was going to create a smaller batch and back off on the caramel 60 had the grains been bagged seperately....but now i can either brew it, or throw out the grains

you dont need to throw out the grains or brew it.

you can used the mixed grains in other recipes. you know the ratio of 2row to caramel so it should be easy to use the grain for another brew.

k47k said:

you dont need to throw out the grains or brew it.

you can used the mixed grains in other recipes. you know the ratio of 2row to caramel so it should be easy to use the grain for another brew.

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Great Point! I'm pretty smart, but I never would have thought about that. It's good to learn something new everyday!

WarEagleBrewer said:

Well...then I probably just wasted about $30....i did not know this, but when you "create" a brew with the brewbuilder software, and then purchase said recipe, brewmasterwarehouse.com mixes all the grains together....i was going to create a smaller batch and back off on the caramel 60 had the grains been bagged seperately....but now i can either brew it, or throw out the grains

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This is a good example of why it's super awesome to support your LHBS. This recipe never would have been pulled at my LHBS without them saying "are you sure about this/were did you get this recipe".

Gartywood said:

This is a good example of why it's super awesome to support your LHBS. This recipe never would have been pulled at my LHBS without them saying "are you sure about this/were did you get this recipe".

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Unfortunately, living in Alabama, there aren't many "local" home brew shops. The closest one is 80 miles away and it would cost me more to drive there than in would to pay shipping AND waste the grain....but luckily i won't have to do that now.

Well, thanks to all of you, I did NOT use 6lbs of caramel! The final bill ended up like this:

8lbs Pale
2lbs Caramel 60 (still hefty I know)
2oz Roasted Barley

1oz Fuggles @ 60mins
1oz Kent Goldings @ 15mins
1oz Hallertau @ 5mins

My OG was 1.050. So, any thoughts on how this may taste? It still has a couple of weeks to go in the fermenter (I leave it for a month, then bottle). Haven't checked gravity yet. It tasted pretty good before it went into the fermenter, so here's hoping!

Might be a little on the sweet and hoppy side for a traditional Irish red but I think it will taste good all the same. I like to add a little late addition hops in my Irish red too.

You could probably get away with calling it an American Amber.

ludomonster said:

You could probably get away with calling it an American Amber.

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Nothing American about it though!

zachattack said:

Nothing American about it though!

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The use of flavor and aroma hops in a beer is a common characteristic of Americanized brown beer styles. Beers of the British Isles often have little or no hop aroma or flavor and rely on prominent malt flavor. This is especially true as beer gets darker. The reliance on American hop varieties is more about adhering to tradition than obeying a strict rule. You can brew an American beer without using any American hops.

Fair enough. It may be American to you, but I'd still hesitate to label a beer made entirely with English/continental hops and English yeast as an American style just because there are late hops!

I just hope to label it tasty! I'm not hung up on adhering to a particular style...i like to experiment....and this definitely was one.

Hey it sounds tasty to me! My first all grain was an Irish Red, I just did the recipe from Brewing Classic Styles. It's such a straightforward style of beer, I think it's a good candidate for experimentation.

Whatever style you call it only matters to give people an impression of what you are going for or for competition. The Jamil Show even gives recipes for styles that they say are out of the range for the styles. As far as recipes go, you can add hops at whatever interval you want if you think it will benefit the beer. You may particularly enjoy certain hop flavor or aroma additions and think it will go well with the malt bill. Your particular recipe isn't strictly to style, but it isn't a whacky recipe either.