Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.


Results are only viewable after voting.
I think they will drop yeast after most of fermentation and then 'cap the fermenter' to the full 15 PSI and partially capture as much pressure as possible during the very end of fermentation and diacetyl rest before charging in the brite tank (or the unitank). I think you wouldn't want the decrease in viability from both the hydrostatic and atmospheric pressures in a large brewing vessel cooking the yeast cake. This is just my opinion from what I've noticed.

I have capped and not ramped and I didn't think it presented a problem. I raise the chamber temp though if I do that.
 
Is it common practice that around 50% atten to rolls the keg around a few times a day to keep the yeast roused? I'm going to take a sample from my picnic tap at lunch today and see what I am at after 3 days with the lager. Did I understand correctly that you have to do something to the liquid sample to take an accurate hydrometer reading?
 
I took a sample and gave it a taste, and its coming along nicely.

I decided to ramp the PSI up to 15 now and going to hold it there.

I have a foodsaver but dont really have the equipment that some other people have to degas the liquid, so I left it out on the counter to go flat.
 
I may have to do this soon. I used the carboy cap method to grow into fermenting in a keg for the first time, but my stinking racking cane left a gallon in the sanke keg...I ended up dumping it into a two gallon bucket to let the beer and yeast settle out, and probably oxidize a bit. Maybe i can save it and get it into my keg later. I think the keg spears will be the best method for me.
 
So not sure how long it would need to sit in an open container for the beer to degas. But if the reading is accurate now. Than I've practically hit my number after only around 4 days of fermenting a lager. Ive set the valve for 15 and it's slowly working it's way there. Currently at 11 psi since about 10 hours ago.
 
Yesterday I pulled the trigger on the parts for my set-up. I want an all-in-one connector; racking, thermowell, and spunding valve. I'll post pics when I get started.
 
For those who have used this for a lager.

I racked this beer Saturday night, fermentation started sometime on Monday (maybe sooner). Held 5 PSI until yesterday, I just set the guage yesterdy afternoon to 15 psi, and its taking its time to get there, this morning it was at 11.5 PSI.

I'm going to rouse the yeast a few times, but that may not even be necessary. The sample I took using my picnic tap was left out since yesterday at lunch time, and this morning it shows me 1.012 (I would think it has degassed by now). Basically within 2 points of my FG.

Can my fermentation really be already done on this lager this quick? My sample pulled up some yeast, very minimal. Can this beer be already ready to rack to secondaries for lagering in my keezer?
 
I would bring it to lagering temps while still in the primary, in order to minimize yeast transfer. The process of dispensing will create a turbulent area near the dip tube, and you want the yeast to be as compacted as possible.
 
The yeast might be done fermenting sugars but I bet they still have some work to do cleaning up diacetyl, acetaldehyde etc. I'd let it go at least ten days. But pressurizing makes things go quickly, this much I have observed.

GN don't you want some yeast for lagering? I think they are still slightly active during this phase.
 
Just put this together to go on the brewhemoth. We'll see how it rolls on the next batch. The ball valve part is a sort of utility connection. I can vent the whole thing if needed, as well as attach supplemental CO2 if I want to top up or push the beer out when kegging. There is also a 50psi relief for redundancy. I hope the spund valve doesn't get krausen in it and clog things up. Hopefully not as there should be 5gal of headspace.

Most stuff is stainless... not the relief valves. I don't suppose it would be ok to submerge the whole thing in pbw and starsan... might arf up the gauge? I assume the internal pathways would stand up to this regimen though. Yes?

The majority of the fittings are 1/4''npt. Spund prv is the 0.5-30psi one from mcmaster.

spund.jpg
 
Here is mine. I now operate 2 of these:

2012-03-04_10-56-56_176.jpg


The gauge was around $8
Pressure-Relief around $18

Already had left over tubing, and bought around 10 brass 1/4 NPT flare endings for like $6-7 if I recall.
 
I can see why you'd want to do the final carbing in the fermentation range of the yeast. So how do the Germans do their slow reduction to lagering temps, and still maintain yeast activity to carb?

Wortmonger, have you been successful in eliminating your contamination issues? No issues with PBW and starsan on any of the components?
 
Racked my first batch on this to two cornies, they are currently lagering right now. I used the weight method. I found for my lager about 50 lbs was almost to the top. So people were right, if you zero out the scale with your corny and get to around 41 lbs you'll be at the top.

I also just harvested my yeast after slowly moving the psi down. I washed just like the wiki says and and let them settle out in a bowl and slowly poured into about 4 containers. I see some settling happening in my containers.
 
im about to order a few parts going to have a look around for some cheap d type cupelers im planing on using the original spear as making one for the purpous is looking to pricy the main reason i like the way this looks is that st sterilize would be easy after cleaning just throw some boiling water in and put the keg over some heat and boil for 20 mins i know it doesn't need to be this long but better to be thorough rather than not do enough then put mash straight in after emptying so many people say this is a good step to a better beer i can get my hands on quite a few kegs at the moment the 50L ones so in all aspects i find it better then fermenting in a crappy bucket like i have been that i now cant get replacement seals for as the company has changed their types they use
 
im about to order a few parts going to have a look around for some cheap d type cupelers im planing on using the original spear as making one for the purpous is looking to pricy the main reason i like the way this looks is that st sterilize would be easy after cleaning just throw some boiling water in and put the keg over some heat and boil for 20 mins i know it doesn't need to be this long but better to be thorough rather than not do enough then put mash straight in after emptying so many people say this is a good step to a better beer i can get my hands on quite a few kegs at the moment the 50L ones so in all aspects i find it better then fermenting in a crappy bucket like i have been that i now cant get replacement seals for as the company has changed their types they use

btw i plan on having 2 of these i have friends that will happily pay me for good beer and have 1 friend hands me like 30 buks every time he has a drink hear as i make beer and whisky also some vodkas and such nice to have friends that pay their way and then have many good nights without me being shirty at them for drinking heaps and me having to foot the bill to make more :mug:
 
demetroy said:
btw i plan on having 2 of these i have friends that will happily pay me for good beer and have 1 friend hands me like 30 buks every time he has a drink hear as i make beer and whisky also some vodkas and such nice to have friends that pay their way and then have many good nights without me being shirty at them for drinking heaps and me having to foot the bill to make more :mug:

I need some friends like that...
 
I did a 10 gallon batch with my buddy last week and it has been in carboys for 7 days. I was gonna swing by today and rack it to a corny with my pressure setup on it.

You guys think I can expect pressure to build? I've yet to try this so I don't have any experience yet.
 
Who has experience with using Swage-lok fittings with o-rings to hold the racking cane in place? I believe the Brewers' Hardware Sanke fermentor conversion is assembled this way. I'm curious if the o-rings will hold at 15 psi or so?
 
Well here is my contraption. I incorporated features from many setups other HBT'ers had posted.
Features: 3/8" adjustable racking cane; 20 PSI Spunding valve attached with 1/4" flare nuts that allow it to be connected to corny gas connector; pressure gauge is detachable for cleaning; thermowell, ball valve, corny gas post for pressure transfer; 2" tri-clamp. I brazed the fittings together with Safety-Silv 45; it's far harder than solder. Hopefully it'll hold up to cleaning chemicals.

imagepcj.jpg
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
imageszh.jpg
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
imagepxh.jpg
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
imagevrf.jpg
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
 
Pickles, V2.0 of my setup is gonna end up very similar to yours. I just got all the parts over the weekend. I'll weld it all up this week and post pics when I get it done.
 
Ohararp - your setups were some of my inspiration. I liked what you had but wanted it in a single unit. I want to go from kettle to tap without exposing beer to oxygen.
 
What are the effects on the yeast if you de-pressurize the system too quickly? Is it really necessary to do it over 3 day time period?
 
About the same as on an astronaut if a space shuttle wall were to rupture, only more violent explosion. Insides ripped inside out.

But honestly, I haven’t found that it is that big of a deal if you are making proper starters, decanting trub before pitching, and being careful about sanitation you should be fine if you release the pressure a little faster.
 
About the same as on an astronaut if a space shuttle wall were to rupture, only more violent explosion. Insides ripped inside out.

But honestly, I haven’t found that it is that big of a deal if you are making proper starters, decanting trub before pitching, and being careful about sanitation you should be fine if you release the pressure a little faster.

Hmm interesting. I just did a counter-pressure transfer monday night off the yeast cake, and it has been sitting at room temperature closed up around 10 psi. I'm really tempted to just repitch my new lager on top of that yeast.
 
I just did my first batch this week with this technique.

It was a hurried batch so I did have some minor issues.
Cooled properly, inserted my O2 stone and ... no gas.
Shook the hell out of it.
Forgot to re-hydrate my dry yeast; pitched dry.
Set spunding valve to 5psi using my compressor.
Attached spunding valve to keg and went about my day/week.

1 week later it is sitting at 5 psi but FG is 1.02; much higher than expected.
I expect it to get closer to 1.012; I have brewed this before several times.

Shook the hell out of it; maybe restart fermentation. Turned valve all the way up.
1 more week later; 7psi and little drop in FG.

I read a bunch of pages of this thread since then.
The beer is not ruined; should be tasty but I want to know if this could have mess up my fermentation slightly.
Should I have left it at 0psi for a few days during the growth phase?
Has anyone outlined the best way to raise the pressure during carbonation?
Should I have increased the temperature to compensate for the pressure? (I set temp at 65F) Raise X degree per +1psi?
Just looking to improve on the next one; I like the idea of this technique but I am just wondering if the toxicity of CO2 will inhibit the yeast and increase my FG on all my brews.

FYI
this was a blue moon clone outlined on this forum; I am just experimenting with spices but the main recipe is unchanged between attempts.
 
I hope one of the veterans chimes in here cause I'd like to know too. If I recall from previous reading of this loooong thread; that it's typical to cap the fermenter after a few days (maybe 50-75% to target FG). I'm brewing tomorrow with my new setup so I'll give it a whirl.
 
I find that my beers in pressure take longer to ferment out but hen they are dine fermenting and ate carbonated they are ready to consume. I also start at 5psi and then I ramp to 8 at 50% then up to 15% at about 8o%. Is it possible you have an air leak?
 
I have a report on one of the two small batches I fermented under pressure in cornies. They are both done, and I have now tasted the hefeweizen. The ESB is not chilled yet, no room in the keezer.

I was worried that the hefe might have reduced esters due to the tendency of pressurized ferm to reduce said esters. However, this brew has a very nice banana component to go along with the clove. The wife loves it this way and she is pleased with the result. I put a little over 4gal in the cornie and did have some krausen blow out through the sppunding valve, so I know to keep the volume closer to 3gal especially for these yeasts that really make a generous krausen (Belgians, weizens).

The ferm did seem to take a long time although the basement is running cool right now and everything is taking its sweet time. I have no problem with that, I think it makes better beer.

This is the third pressurized ferm I've done, #1 was a large batch of black pale ale done in my Brewhemoth conical and it turned out well also. I intend to continue playing with this method, I like having the beer nearly carbonated by the end of fermentation.

For the hefe, I cut the dip tube short by 1.5" so when I transferred to a clean cornie for serving I wouldn't push out a bunch of yeast first. This worked just fine, and I was able to harvest the yeast after transerring and releasing the pressure, then pouring some of the cake in a clean jar. I need to cut off another dip tube so I have two cornie fermentors. Fermenting in cornies is pretty handy too.
 
Started another pressurized fermentation in the Brewhemoth, this time 16gal of APA (OG 1.053) with US05 (2L starter plus a packet of dry). I got activity within 12hrs of pitching and went right to 7psi. Ferm temp is 68F and holding. I plan to run the ferm at that pressure for a few days then bump it to 15psi and let it finish out. I'll harvest yeast at that point and transfer to kegs where I'll bump the pressure to 25psi for final carbing. I'm thinking of adding a dry hop yeast sock to each keg at filling and just leave it there while serving.
 
I'm about 4 days into my first pressurized fermentation and things seemed great until today. I started out with an airlock til about 50% attenuation then ramped to 5 psi, then to 10 PSI before going to bed last night (actually read 11 psi). This morning the the guage read 5psi again. I'm not sure what caused the fluctuation except for a leak, but everything seems tight. The relief valve seems to constantly leak air almost as if it never really seals when it reaches the set-point. Anyone have this issue? I'm using a cheap brass relief valve and will probably change over to the polypropylene relief valve others have had success with.

Edit: After a bit of research I believe I've found the problem. It appears that the plastic relief valve from McMaster Carr is a Pressure-Maintaining Relief Valve; where-as the brass one is simply a pressure relief valve. So if flow of gas is constant the brass valve will maintain the pressure at set-point, however, as gas production begins to slow the valve has enough bleed-through that it eventually drops below set=point. Maybe??
 
Thats how the valve works, it constantly bleeds off extra pressure. Its supposed to hiss as long as CO2 is being generated. Not sure why your pressure went back to 5psi, sometimes it takes awhile for the pressure to settle when you change the valve, maybe you turned it up then back down a bit?

My own ferment started at 7psi and after three days I ramped it to 15psi and will hold it there for the duration.
 
I know that it will bleed off excess pressure. The problem is that mine seems to not be able to maintain the set-point. It's as if the ball bearing doesn't make a positive seal in its seat. So if a bunch of gas is being produced it works as designed, by compressing the spring and ball this bleeding off excess. It seems to leak a bit of gas at al times though, maybe mines defective? I ordered the plastic version others use. It seems to have a silicone seal in it; which may perform better than the steel to brass fit of my current unit.
 
I haven't heard of the brass ones failing although it would only take a little junk getting up in it to do that I suppose. You might take it off and rinse it out. I have the plastic one and it works well, also a metal one from Grainger that works too.
 
Back
Top