Braid to Stainless false bottom

So I just got a new stainless false bottom for my cooler mash tun for xmas. I've used a braid in the cooler with batch sparges since I've been doing all-grain and I'm curious if anybody has used both and what difference I'm likely to see. I want to continue doing batch sparges I think.

I have used both the braid and the false bottom. The only difference I found is that the false bottom does not get beaten up by stirring the mash.

I cannot say enough good things about the Bazooka Braid when batch sparging

False bottoms are much easier to clean and maintain and they do not get a stuck mash as easy as braded stainless.

I would beg to differ on that one. Two things I noticed when I switched to a false bottom. It takes more vorlauf time to get clear wort and even then, a few husks work though here and there. It also runs slower because kernels of grain can plug up whole holes. I've never had a stuck sparge with a braid but I have had one with a false bottom (a 15" diameter one no less). Cleaning it requires a brush to get aforementioned kernels to dislodge from the holes. I use to just hose off the braid.

They both work, but now I use rice hulls if I'm nearing 50% wheat.

WBC said:

False bottoms are much easier to clean and maintain and they do not get a stuck mash as easy as braded stainless.

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That is exactly the opposite of my experience.

I knew I would get hammered on this one. Oh well. Commercial breweries all use false bottoms.

I just switched from a false bottom to a SS braid and I was very impressed with the clarity I got from the braid. With my false bottom my first runnings were always very cloudy and took several cycles to clear it up and even then it wouldn't get very clear. With the braid it was clear right from the start.

I am thinking of switching from false bottom to braid. 3 of my 4 sparges have stuck and I have been careful to try avoiding the common pitfalls on the web that I have read about.

I have a 10 gallon Gott style cooler, any recommendations on braid or any one from a home brew retailer will do?

Well, when I finally get a chance to use my false bottom, I'll report back whether or not it was a good move.

Thanks for the feedback!

licenzedtothrill said:

I am thinking of switching from false bottom to braid. 3 of my 4 sparges have stuck and I have been careful to try avoiding the common pitfalls on the web that I have read about.

I have a 10 gallon Gott style cooler, any recommendations on braid or any one from a home brew retailer will do?

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A SS braid should run you about $3 - $5 so it is worth a shot, especially if you are batch sparging. They are surprisingly hard to get stuck, as long as you buy a real SS braid (and not a plastic one). They are easy to put together -- see the link in my signature for some ideas (please note that I use a piece of tubing inside my braid but no longer advocate doing this because so many people do this wrong and end up with a stuck mash).

They're cheap at Lowe's, but you have to dismantle the toilet supply hose to get at it. I've used this one for about 20 batches. The butterknife is supposed to keep the braid at the bottom of the mash.

944play said:

They're cheap at Lowe's, but you have to dismantle the toilet supply hose to get at it. I've used this one for about 20 batches. The butterknife is supposed to keep the braid at the bottom of the mash.

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It's not there to keep bad bugs at bay??

WBC said:

I knew I would get hammered on this one. Oh well. Commercial breweries all use false bottoms.

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Are you a commercial brewery? I'm a homebrewer....

Denny said:

Are you a commercial brewery? I'm a homebrewer....

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No but I have 2 friends who run a commercial brewery's and both are very successful and you can learn a lot from them if you have an open mind. I have both a braid and a false bottom cooler/MLT. I use them both to this day. I am not stubborn (pig headed) either after 37 wonderful years of brewing great beer. Chill.

Denny said:

Are you a commercial brewery? I'm a homebrewer....

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I'm with Denny on this one. Just because a commercial brewer does it (or won't do it), it doesn't mean the homebrewer should too. One needs to appreciate the differences and find what works best for their own situation.

Just to add to the discussion a bit, I started with a braid in a cooler. I wanted to play with step mashing so I converted a keg to a MLT with a nifty large diameter braid and direct fired it RIMS style. Of course there's a bit of a scorching concern with direct heating the grainbed so I got a full false bottom to keep the grain off the heating surface and to have a large wort collection area. I still lose prime on my pump occasionally and when cleaning the tun out I find a lot of husk material fully lodged in many of the holes.

I'm one RIMS electric heating tube DIY away from going back to the braid and ditching the false bottom and burner on the tun.

i've used a false bottom from the very beginning and have always had trouble vorlaufing enough to get clean wort. i can vorlauf 8-10 liters and still have the random bits coming through. In addition, the wort never really clears up, there is always that kind of cloudy stuff, no matter how much vorlaufing is done. maybe it's because I'm making typically small beers in 5.5 gal batches in a 10 gallon cooler. If the grain bed was deeper maybe it would filter better. But it has made me think about trying out a braid.

KingBrianI said:

i've used a false bottom from the very beginning and have always had trouble vorlaufing enough to get clean wort. i can vorlauf 8-10 liters and still have the random bits coming through. In addition, the wort never really clears up, there is always that kind of cloudy stuff, no matter how much vorlaufing is done. maybe it's because I'm making typically small beers in 5.5 gal batches in a 10 gallon cooler. If the grain bed was deeper maybe it would filter better. But it has made me think about trying out a braid.

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?#1 How deep IS you grain bed?
?#2 How fast do you vorlauf? You gotta go FAST, like almost 3/4 of a gallon a minute.
?#3 What size holes are in your false bottom?
?#4 What is the void in your false bottom area?

Jaybird said:

?#1 How deep IS you grain bed?
?#2 How fast do you vorlauf? You gotta go FAST, like almost 3/4 of a gallon a minute.
?#3 What size holes are in your false bottom?
?#4 What is the void in your false bottom area?

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1. My batches usually contain 8-12 lbs grain so they come up maybe 6-10 inches in the cooler.

2. I didn't realize faster was better. I'll usually just open the valve about halfway. I'd estimate it flows at about .5 gal/min.

3. Hmm, I'm not sure of the exact size. It's the 12" false bottom sold by northern brewer. Theres a pic below.

4. About a half gallon of liquid stays behind after draining. I think the specs say the middle of the false bottom is 0.75 in high.

I've noticed that at some point during the mash/sparge, a corner of the false bottom must come up, because there is always some grain packed under it when i dump grain out.

WBC said:

No but I have 2 friends who run a commercial brewery's and both are very successful and you can learn a lot from them if you have an open mind. I have both a braid and a false bottom cooler/MLT. I use them both to this day. I am not stubborn (pig headed) either after 37 wonderful years of brewing great beer. Chill.

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I'm always chilled...no problem! I have several friends who run commercial breweries also, and I revel in the fact that as a homebrewer I don't have the constraints they do.

KingBrianI said:

I've noticed that at some point during the mash/sparge, a corner of the false bottom must come up, because there is always some grain packed under it when i dump grain out.

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I have the same false bottom and noticed that there is always grain underneath that must work it's way there during the mash/sparging. Does your false bottom appear to be a little smaller for the 10 gallon cooler? I have at least 1/4" or more of movement before I contact the sides. It is the Northern Brewer cooler/false bottom.

ok...I'm at this point myself...I am making the jump to AG and have 5gal and 10gal round coolers...do I do the FB or the Braid?? Some good points have come up...the amount of vorlauf time (and not getting totally clear) from a FB, the $$ of a FB. now the excess movment of the FB...sounds like I'm leaning towards the braid.

Now, how efficient or possible is doing a continues sparge with a braid? I hear everyone talking about doing batch sparges but not a continues with the braid? Is there that big of diff. in efficiency?

Kugster said:

ok...I'm at this point myself...I am making the jump to AG and have 5gal and 10gal round coolers...do I do the FB or the Braid?? Some good points have come up...the amount of vorlauf time (and not getting totally clear) from a FB, the $$ of a FB. now the excess movment of the FB...sounds like I'm leaning towards the braid.

Now, how efficient or possible is doing a continues sparge with a braid? I hear everyone talking about doing batch sparges but not a continues with the braid? Is there that big of diff. in efficiency?

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Since the braid will only cost you $3 - $5, you might as well give it a shot first. A number of people that have tried both ended up preferring the braid, so it would be a shame to spend all that money on a FB that you don't end up using, if it came to that. Both are tried-and-true methods, so you just need to figure out what will work best for you.

Regarding continuous vs. batch sparging, again neither method is better -- it is what will work best for you -- simply personal preference. And I have stopped believing the old belief that continuous (fly) sparging is more efficient. Batch sparging with a braid allows you to crush finer with little worry of a stuck sparge, and lends itself to smaller amounts of wort loss in the mash tun, which more than compensates for any 'theoretical' drop in extract efficiency. In well-tuned systems, the brewhouse efficiency of batch vs. fly sparging setups tends to be very similar (i.e., in the % of mid 80's or higher).

I'm about to convert my True Brew buckets into a false bottom lauter tun. Papazian suggested 1/8" diameter holes in the bottom of the 'top' bucket...does anybody think I should go larger or smaller or is 1/8" about as good as it will get?

WIth all due respect to Papazian, his "zapap" lautertun is just goofy when it's so easy to convert a cooler with a stainless braid. That's old design that just kind of hung around though all the editions of "joy of homebrewing". By now I'd expect the denny conn design to replace it. Even if you had to use a bucket for cost reasons, you could install a braid and insulate the bucket with found materials.

Thanks Bobby. I can't remember if it's the 'zaptap'...it's just two buckets, one placed inside the other. The top bucket has the holes in the bottom and the bottom bucket has a spigot. What's goofy about it? It seems simple, easy, and effective (and I LOVE simple, easy, and effective)...but then I've never used it. You should see the what I used to use! Essentially it was a pot with a hole in the bottom with a ball valve and plastic tubing...and a collander inside...it prob never got stuck because I was using brew-store-crushed grain which was only half-crushed.

I must be missing something. Whether it's buckets w/FB or a cooler w/braid we fill the LT the same way (I mash in a pot btw)...and drain it the same way. Correct? And it appears both types get from point A-to-B equally effectively. If a cooler w/ braid is superior then I will go that way but based on the reading I've done so far...it seems to be 6-of-one and half-dozen of the other (with most people liking whatever they happen to use).

I guess a better way to put it is like this: I have the stuff to do the buckets with FB but don't have any of the stuff for a cooler w/ braid. Can you (or anyone) convince me to justfy going out and buying/building the cooler w/braid when I could just break out the drill and have the buckets w/FB done in a few minutes? I will be 'ruining' a bucket and would hate to do that if it's a waste.

I must admit that I'm a massive KISS rule guy. As an example, I don't think I'd ever buy any sort of pump for homebrewing. My thinking is why pump when I can just lift a bucket? I deal with pumps, hydraulics, pneumatics at work all day...at home I just lift buckets and use minimal equipment.

Feel free to build what you want. But I am sure the collective advice here will be that you won't be satisfied with the bucket system for very long.

Coolers are a popular choice for mash tuns because they are insulated and hold heat really well. Holding a consistent temperature during the mash is a must for all grain brewing. Cooler MLTs can be made very cheap. Look at my sig for one design. If you want to go even cheaper, Google for Denny Conn's site and check out his build.

My first AG batches were done using the zapap bucket-in-bucket system (because I didn't know any better). I mashed in a cooler and then transferred to the zapap lauter tun. It's messy and really an unnecessary extra step when you can so easily built a mash tun that you can also lauter in. If I were you, I'd save the bucket and go buy a cheap cooler, braid, and spigot, and do the cooler MLT right from the start. It's the epitomy of KISS! Trust me, you're going to end up doing it before long anyway, and when you do, you'll wonder why you wasted a bucket and all the time you spent drilling all the holes in it.

Thanks FlyGuy and Sparky. I never tried the cooler mash tun because I usually did a step-infusion-mash at different temps so I always liked being able to add heat. Seemed it required too much water to get the last temp increase without the ability to add heat. I had intended to continue mashing in a pot and not a cooler. Maintaining a constant temp was never an issue...hitting the exact target temp without adding heat always was. I could get a cooler and an immersion heater I guess but again...I already have a pot and a stove and that's all I ever needed to mash...and this paddleball set...that's it...that's all I need.

PS - that last part was a movie reference...not me being a smartass.

Maybe that's what I'm missing...I had no intention of mashing in anything other than a pot. It's the lautering/sparging step that I'm addressing with no consideration to the mash step...because at that point the mash is done. I didn't think I could do a 3 or 4-step infusion mash in a cooler and still be able to fit all the preboiled wort into my 5 gallon boil pot.

What kind of beers are you doing 3-4 step mashes? Might want to look into decoction mashes instead of infusion steps.

It's certainly more of a pain to mash in one vessel and lauter in another. The commercial brewers do it because they need to have each vessel highly specialized, but for homebrewers it's nice to combine both functions into one vessel for simplicity. You may decide you want to mash in a kettle to do step mashing, but if that's not why you're doing it, a cooler based MLT would be as simple as it gets.

edit; I was too slow. Sparky makes a good point. Are you step mashing for some purpose? There is no problem holding a solid temp in a cooler.

I step mash in my cooler MLT all the time. I worked up a simple little steam injection system from an old pressure cooker that cost very little and works fabulously (see my sig).

Regardless, if you have stuff lying around that you can use, go for it. At least then if you find it doesn't work well enough, or isn't convenient enough for you, you can feel confident that the 'upgrades' are worth it.

Cheers!

The step mashing was in certain beers with low modified malts. I wanted the freedom to be able to do whatever mash method I want in one mash tun. I may not have needed to do it but I'll never really know the difference unless I try it. I do decoction mashes sometimes too. I wanted one mash tun that could do it all...so a pot seemed appropriate since I already have that.

Ok, how about plumbing in a lautering device into the pot?

Excellent point. That's basically what several of us do with sanke keg MLTs that we direct-fire. Here's mine.

I saw some of those on here and they do look pretty cool.

But they look like a big project to build and buying the stuff doesn't look cheap.

And I still don't see what the big deal is about lifting a bucket and gently pouring the pot into a bucket. It just seems like such a trivial step to go to bunch of trouble to avoid. Takes a few seconds.

I promise I'm not trying to be difficult guys and I really appreciate the input. Maybe it's that over the last 12 years or so...on other DIY-type sites like guitar-tube-amp-building or even just guitar player/gear sites...that there's no shortage of either bad info or not-applicable info or exaggerations/etc. So I now instinctively take anything on the net with a pound of salt...maybe two pounds. I'm not saying you guys aren't right and I'm sure it works for you but I'm just not 100% convinced it's what is best for me.

Like plumbing a lauter into my mash pot...my first thought was; "Why would I go to all the trouble to do that when I can just lift a bucket?" I'll be brewing probably less than once a month if that. As you can probably tell...I don't really want a bunch of specialty, single-purpose equipment around if I can help it. Plain ole buckets and pots are multi-purpose.

SpanishCastleAle said:

I saw some of those on here and they do look pretty cool.

But they look like a big project to build and buying the stuff doesn't look cheap.

And I still don't see what the big deal is about lifting a bucket and gently pouring the pot into a bucket. It just seems like such a trivial step to go to bunch of trouble to avoid. Takes a few seconds.

I promise I'm not trying to be difficult guys and I really appreciate the input. Maybe it's that over the last 12 years or so...on other DIY-type sites like guitar-tube-amp-building or even just guitar player/gear sites...that there's no shortage of either bad info or not-applicable info or exaggerations/etc. So I now instinctively take anything on the net with a pound of salt...maybe two pounds. I'm not saying you guys aren't right and I'm sure it works for you but I'm just not 100% convinced it's what is best for me.

Like plumbing a lauter into my mash pot...my first thought was; "Why would I go to all the trouble to do that when I can just lift a bucket?" I'll be brewing probably less than once a month if that. As you can probably tell...I don't really want a bunch of specialty, single-purpose equipment around if I can help it. Plain ole buckets and pots are multi-purpose.

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You make a good point with regards to simplicity. One thing that I've learned so far in terms of the process of developing brewing equipment is that I should plan for the future. I can't tell you how many times I've done things three times over only to find that I should've just gone ahead and invested a bit of money to make something that will stand the test of time, that's why I'm slowly converting kegs for both a mashtun and a boil kettle.

If you think you'll be brewing for a long time to come the investment will be worth it.

SpanishCastleAle said:

I already have a pot and a stove and that's all I ever needed to mash...and this paddleball set...that's it...that's all I need.

PS - that last part was a movie reference...not me being a smartass.

.

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You forgot your chair...NOW that's all you need...and that pencil!:cross:

Here's a question, has anyone stepped up to a 1" braid? I read in Palmer's book, the 1" braid will not collapse under the weight of the grain.

If you think you'll be brewing for a long time to come the investment will be worth it.

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Haha...thing is I dunno! I already bailed on homebrewing once back in 2000 or so...and that was when I actually drank beer. I can't remember the last time I had a beer (scotch on the other hand...). Of course, if I had homebrew around I'd def be drinking more beer.

I'm gonna try the buckets...I guess 1/8" holes it is. I'm sure you guys are thinking; "He'll come around soon enough." and you're probably right. But at least I'll be able to say I learned from personal experience and that's worth a lot to me.