conpewter
Well-Known Member
gosh I love the clover lawn idea btw Thinking of overseeding with that to see if I can slowly convert the new lawn.
Do you mow it?
Do you mow it?
If you are going to grow hops, please do it right
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conpewter
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LOL! Didn't help that you also picked 3 of the worst-growing varieties in our region! Looks like a nail in the coffin, for sure.
Really? They have been growing great for me, way too many to harvest even. Just moving will force me to relocate them. I haven't done much with them, just some compost every year and hang up strings for them. Also planted garlic near them... though lately I've had more time to enjoy the garlic than the hops
TyTanium
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It's clover mixed with grass, not 100% clover, so does require mowing. Also mowing keeps the clover compact - it can get a little leggy. But I have other border areas that I don't mow at all, nice transition actually.
Dougan
Well-Known Member
Thank you, Good luck with that composter...your trash will be a lot lighter.
Yeah the Bluegill thing is the easiest trick in the world, though I am probably going to piss some PETA folks off by saying it
As a kid my dad would make me catch carp so he could plant them in the garden. You could easily tell where we had put the carp because the beans were way more healthy in that area.
The added mercury gives the veggies a good crisp flavor, too.
Really? They have been growing great for me, way too many to harvest even. Just moving will force me to relocate them. I haven't done much with them, just some compost every year and hang up strings for them. Also planted garlic near them... though lately I've had more time to enjoy the garlic than the hops
Fuggle and hallertau don't produce for **** in their homeland! Fuggle here is just brutally bad, IMO... grow it next to a Cascade, Magnum, Columbus, Nugget, etc and you will see what I mean. Might have just been me, but my Mt Hood, Willamette, Fuggle, and Hallertau all looked like sickly diseased plants and rarely produces much in comparison... I noticed the trend and ripped those out. Hops in their place in the same spot do great (Golding, Magnum, CTZ, etc).
OP
OP
KoedBrew
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Nice conversations, A couple things I'd like to chime in about...
To Badbrew- I have been treating my gardens this way for 3 years, and I will never have a problem with drainage, because my soil doesn't compact...I practice this method and went from hard packed dirt, to where now I can stick my arm 8-10 inces in my soil before it gets too compact for me to go further.
If you would like to believe that a chemical from a bottle works better than the way nature works (with a little help) then feel free to use it. I am just talking from my experience.
I have weeds that pop up, but they either don't bother anything or just die...I hardly worry about weeds.
For those of you in Dry Climates or have clay soils...Try Hugelkulture.
I did this for my Willamette hops and last year I never watered them and got just as good production as the ones I watered without.
Basically with Hugelkulture you dig a deep area where your garden is going to be, throw in some huge logs from dead trees (any untreated wood). I put mine about 2 feet down, then mixed the soil I put back into the hole on top of the logs with some good compost.
Those logs will act as a Sponge in the bottom of your garden bed and once your hops are established the roots will reach down and grab hold of the moist logs and take care of some water issues. It also helps with clay soils because when you create this initial gardenbed you loosen the soils and can mix it to make it work...some people raise them up. Look it up
To Badbrew- I have been treating my gardens this way for 3 years, and I will never have a problem with drainage, because my soil doesn't compact...I practice this method and went from hard packed dirt, to where now I can stick my arm 8-10 inces in my soil before it gets too compact for me to go further.
If you would like to believe that a chemical from a bottle works better than the way nature works (with a little help) then feel free to use it. I am just talking from my experience.
I have weeds that pop up, but they either don't bother anything or just die...I hardly worry about weeds.
For those of you in Dry Climates or have clay soils...Try Hugelkulture.
I did this for my Willamette hops and last year I never watered them and got just as good production as the ones I watered without.
Basically with Hugelkulture you dig a deep area where your garden is going to be, throw in some huge logs from dead trees (any untreated wood). I put mine about 2 feet down, then mixed the soil I put back into the hole on top of the logs with some good compost.
Those logs will act as a Sponge in the bottom of your garden bed and once your hops are established the roots will reach down and grab hold of the moist logs and take care of some water issues. It also helps with clay soils because when you create this initial gardenbed you loosen the soils and can mix it to make it work...some people raise them up. Look it up
OP
OP
KoedBrew
Well-Known Member
Just a little piggyback on something above, tilling your soil every year for a garden is bad practice. Unless you are tearing up some grass (starting a new bed).
When you till soil you only turn up the top 3-4 inches??
What happens when you till? First you compact the soil underneath that 3-4 inches of till. Then, you destroy the natural ecosystem of bacteria and worms and the natural balance of PH layering.
If you don't till, but do what I talked about in the first post you will grow your garden beds and they will always produce.
The till method of gardening is old school and I will probably hurt some peoples feelings saying this, but its true. The #1 Export of the U.S. every year is top soil because of all the tilling of the midwest farms and the soil blowing into the Mississippi and then taken to the Gulf of Mexico.
Look up Joel Salatin from Polyface farms...he had to raise his fence posts up because the soil levels were growing on his farm and his fenceposts were too short.
But I digress...Sorry if I sounded a little preachy
When you till soil you only turn up the top 3-4 inches??
What happens when you till? First you compact the soil underneath that 3-4 inches of till. Then, you destroy the natural ecosystem of bacteria and worms and the natural balance of PH layering.
If you don't till, but do what I talked about in the first post you will grow your garden beds and they will always produce.
The till method of gardening is old school and I will probably hurt some peoples feelings saying this, but its true. The #1 Export of the U.S. every year is top soil because of all the tilling of the midwest farms and the soil blowing into the Mississippi and then taken to the Gulf of Mexico.
Look up Joel Salatin from Polyface farms...he had to raise his fence posts up because the soil levels were growing on his farm and his fenceposts were too short.
But I digress...Sorry if I sounded a little preachy
Mikethepoolguy
Well-Known Member
There are websites like Gardenweb.com if you want to talk about growing clover, catnip, and tomatoes. As a experienced gardener and landscaper, but a novice at growing HOPS, I have found this thread to be more annoying than informative.
not sure about the whole thread, but the opening post sure turned me off. talk about self-righteous - as if there was only one way to grow hops... ugh.
That was kinda of my point as well. Do anything you want to with gardening and brewing that is legal and doesn't involve huge amounts of waste, but don't lecture me on doing it differently without proof that I'm doing it wrong.
BTW, I guess you clover grows don't play too much golf.
conpewter
Well-Known Member
How do I blend in a layer of compost without tilling?
Oh, you turn the garden over by hand. It's more work than tilling, but it's important for the soil organsims that live in the soil to not disrupt their processes. Gently turning over the soil to work in the compost is fine.
Bob has taught me to not even walk on the soil/beds of the garden, as it compacts them. He as long boards for walking on to work in the garden, but never steps in the actual beds.
Some of my friends have huge, huge gardens and actually designed them that way to use a tiller every year. But that's really not good for the garden, particularly if you want to use less pesticides (we use none) and fertilizers (again, we use none except for compost).
TyTanium
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This is very interesting. Makes me wonder - do I even need to turn it in? Can I just spread the compost over the top? I assume the first rain would leach it into the soil. That's what I do for my hops - just spread some around the crown and let the rain do the rest.
Even more interesting...certainly makes sense. I will adopt this idea, thanks! Does this apply to hops too?
You can just apply as a topdressing but a rough spading helps speed up the incorporation. Kinda lures the worms up to help move it back down into the soil.
Soil compaction is very important to limit, especially with heavy clay soils. The more oxygen you can get down into the root zone, the happier plants you'll have (no matter what you're growing).
Soil compaction is very important to limit, especially with heavy clay soils. The more oxygen you can get down into the root zone, the happier plants you'll have (no matter what you're growing).
TyTanium
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Haha, yeah, I laughed pretty hard when I saw that! I have no shortage. But I'm not putting that stuff anywhere near my beer.
onipar
Well-Known Member
I'm with you on that one. I always thought the concept of lawns was ridiculous. But then, I'm also a complete wacko! :cross: :rockin:
conpewter
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the heads up on creeping charlie, gonna have to do a brew with that now, I have plenty at my new house (lots of shade seems to promote it)
(lots of shade seems to promote it)
Boerderij_Kabouter
Well-Known Member
Awesome thread. Ty, I had no idea you were into the clover yard thing. I love the clover and am trying to get it everywhere. This is a pretty good site for basic info for anyone else interested...
http://cloverlawn.org/
I am super stoked about getting back into gardening this year after a two year hiatus. I am going to get my hop beds prepped this year and my trellis setup, and be ready for rhizomes next year. I am fully organic on my prop too, I think it is a really important thing.
http://cloverlawn.org/
I am super stoked about getting back into gardening this year after a two year hiatus. I am going to get my hop beds prepped this year and my trellis setup, and be ready for rhizomes next year. I am fully organic on my prop too, I think it is a really important thing.
Lestrad
Member
Them - No response. Write me off as a crazy person.
And the neighbors are "worse." I'm fighting wild violets on the left and creeping charlie on the right.
Oh, and agreed with the north-facing thing - not in Illinois, we're too far north, they won't get enough sun.
As mentioned, Creeping Charlie was and is used as bittering in beer instead of or along with hops. It's a lot easier to harvest than hops, too. ;-)
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Lestrad
Member
I have dandelions AND clover in my yard. Also ground ivy/Creeping Charlie and wild carrots and wild oregano. I encourage them all.
Lestrad
Member
A man once wrote a book called _The Revenge of the Lawn_...
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