Reverse Keg Carbing?

The other night I read about using the method below in a 'How To' manual. I did a search here on HBT and found this post by TexLaw:

TexLaw said:

... take the keg out, change the gas line fitting to a liquid line fitting, attach the gas line to the liquid post, and shake or roll the keg around (at the "set it and forget it" PSI) until you no longer hear CO2 bubbling up through the beer. That'll get you nearly all the way toward your desired carbonation. Then, remove the gas line from the liquid post, switch the fitting back to the gas fitting, reattach the gas line to the gas post, put the keg back in the fridge, and chill out. ...
I "speed" carbonate all my beers by the procedure in that last paragraph. It saves me a few days waiting or more without overshooting the carbonation I wanted in the first place and going through all the mess to get it back where I want it.

TL

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I think this method might work very well, with quicker and with more predictable results than the "set it to 35psi and shake the hell outta the keg" method, which has been disappointing to me. My thought is, as long as you have a check valve in place to keep beer from bleeding into your regulator, it should work like a charm.

Anyone else use this method? (Sorry TexLaw, not meaning to pick on you in case anyone comes back saying, "That's crazy talk!" ):

I usually just connect the corny to the gas line - set it to my dispensing pressure - and leave it for 2 - 3 weeks - the brew will be carbed well enough by then.
It also gives the brew some time to "rest" before you drink it.

Kilroy

kilroy said:

I usually just connect the corny to the gas line - set it to my dispensing pressure - and leave it for 2 - 3 weeks - the brew will be carbed well enough by then.
It also gives the brew some time to "rest" before you drink it.

Kilroy

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I've tried that. Left it at 10psi for 2-3 weeks and I'm not getting full carbonation. Sure, it dispenses fine and I get a head on it, but after the head dissipates, there are very few bubbles still floating to the surface. That's why I'm trying to come up with other methods.

Interesting concept. After 2 1/2 days at 35 psi, my beer doesn't have much carbonation at all. I actually thought yesterday, "what if you carbonated through the dip tube allowing the gas to work it's way up through the beer?"

So is a check valve required or not, doesn't seem like it would make any difference since you are basically just reversing the carbonation path, and the pressure of the gas should keep the beer out of the CO2 line?

If I don't need anything special, I'm going to go home and try this tonight.

You can buy a corny lid that has a gas post welded to it and a plastic piece of tubing with a aeration stone on the end. You put it on and the stone drops to the bottom, hook up the gas and it will carbonate up within a day or so depending on temp and pressure. When you get it to the level you want, just change it out with a regular lid and your done.

Would be easier than changing out the hoses on the qd's.

Oddly enough and very coincidentally this is used as a means of removing DMS:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=630713

This is how I do it.

I typically use this method to remove clogged hops from the dip tube, if I'm too lazy to remove the dip tube and flush out the hops.

McKBrew said:

...If I don't need anything special, I'm going to go home and try this tonight.

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Let me know how it goes. I won't get a chance to do it tonight, but plan to x'fer my Weizenbock in the next couple of nights and will try it then. It just sounds too easy!

I've done this when I've needed to get a keg carbed quickly. It works pretty well and is worth trying.

Obviously their is a technique to this that involves more than just hooking up the line to the beer in post (purging at some point?). Just hooking it up at 12 psi will let some beer into the line. Turning it up higher will make some cool bubbling sound, but then I started thinking about excess bubbling causing problems. Turn it back down to 12psi and beer comes out the little hole in the regulator if you don't disconnect the line (aka beer golden shower).

So unless someone with experience lays it out for me step by step for another shot, my reverse carbing experiment was very short lived.

12 PSI @ 40 deg F=perfectly carbed beer in exactly 7 days for me. Are you guys sure your temp vs pressure ratio is correct for the volume of CO2 you desire? A few degrees can make a big difference.

Is this the same as hooking up an aeration stone basically?

I tried this method by accident ..(not paying attention to input/output ports on cornie when connecting the gas...made a note to myself that gas goes to starish port on keg )

The thing I don't like about this technique is that it stirs up the beer.
The 6 weeks from bucket to glass doesnt need any stirring stage
my 2 cents ...for now

Cheers
BeerCanuck

From what I understand, without an aeration stone, the bubbles are to big to go right into solution, so it's not much different from hooking it up to the gas post.

I bought one of these, but never used it.

Instructions for the aeration stone have
you install the stones barb on the gas-in
side- tube. Lock the lid. add gas, and flip the
corny upside down. The tiny aeration bubbles
should accomplish the task rather ffast especially
if the beer is chilled.

Sea said:

12 PSI @ 40 deg F=perfectly carbed beer in exactly 7 days for me. Are you guys sure your temp vs pressure ratio is correct for the volume of CO2 you desire? A few degrees can make a big difference.

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Mine is set at 10psi at 44oF. Had a stout and a Dubbel at those settings for three weeks now and the carbonation is minimal. No system leaks; the CO2 regulator is steady and not dropping and the kegs were pressure tested before any beer was racked.

I purged after racking, then left them at 30psi for a couple of days, then dropped them to the above settings. After three weeks, very little carbonation remains in the glass. I did a pale ale using the "shake the keg" method at 30psi for a couple of mins., then left them at that psi for a couple of days, then dropped it to the above setting. Two weeks later, same thing. I get a nice head, but little carbonation left in suspension after pouring.

Should I up the psi a bit and drop the temp.?

I've only force carbed a few kegs, but have been very happy with my results. Crash cool to around 40F so the CO2 will go into solution better, crank to ~30 psi, and shake the sh*t out of it! I like to lay the keg on its side and get the gas-in tube at the lowest point. The gurgling sound you hear is more CO2 going into the keg to replace what just went from the headspace into solution in the beer. More shaking, more gurgling. When I can shake it violently and there is no gurgling...I disconnect the gas. Vent a touch of pressure off of the keg, and let it sit in the fridge. If you want, you can taste it, but you really have to vent the keg before you open that tap, or LOOK OUT. I have found that in the next day or two and the keg settles and serves normally.

I'm sure it is not the most refined process, but it has served me well.

This site will give you a chart to show how many volumes of Co2

http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/ForceCarbonation.html

But in the end it's up to how you like your beer. Some like it at a lower carbonation level, some higher. If you feel that there is not enough then change one or both of the variables. (I tend to keep at 12 PSI in a 42* or so fridge)

Rhoobarb said:

Mine is set at 10psi at 44oF. Had a stout and a Dubbel at those settings for three weeks now and the carbonation is minimal. No system leaks; the CO2 regulator is steady and not dropping and the kegs were pressure tested before any beer was racked.

I purged after racking, then left them at 30psi for a couple of days, then dropped them to the above settings. After three weeks, very little carbonation remains in the glass. I did a pale ale using the "shake the keg" method at 30psi for a couple of mins., then left them at that psi for a couple of days, then dropped it to the above setting. Two weeks later, same thing. I get a nice head, but little carbonation left in suspension after pouring.

Should I up the psi a bit and drop the temp.?

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Hi Rhoobarb...sounds like your doing everything right
Upping the psi and dropping the temp sounds like the ticket..
also tilting chilled beer glass when pouring to keep C02 in suspensions might help

I was doing some research on Carbonation and ran across this interesting link regarding Carbonating at Home with Improvised Equipment and Soda Fountains

Cheers
BeerCanuck

My beers sit in the chiller for 1-2 weeks to clear up before going on gas. One time I hooked up the gas line bass-akwards by accident and heard the bubbling from the liquid dip tube. It was no more than 3-4 seconds before I disconnected and hooked it up correctly.

I set the PSI to my normal 30-32 for 36 hours.

Beer was perfectly carb'd as usually, but it was 4-5 days before the beer recleared. Driving in 20-30 PSI of bubbling CO2 is going to set your timetable backwards if you like to serve clear beer.

Just an odd thought for those that want to give this method a try (I just do the set it and forget it method personally). If this is something you are going to do on a regular basis, put a Y in your gas line and have a dedicated force carbing line with a liquid QD on it instead of the usual gas QD. That way you don't have to do all that post switching. Just a thought.

^^^ or use mfl instead of barbed.

BeerCanuck said:

... tilting chilled beer glass when pouring to keep C02 in suspensions might help... I was doing some research on Carbonation and ran across this interesting link regarding Carbonating at Home with Improvised Equipment and Soda Fountains ...

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Cool article, BC! Yeah, I always tilt my glass when pouring, but I never chill the glasses. I already had a copy of the volumes chart referenced by others and now that I'm looking at it again, I think I'll drop the temp to 40oF and tweak the CO2 to 12psi. I'll see how that works before resorting to the 'reverse method'.