Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

Williams 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I am almost positive that ST puts it in the last 10 minutes of the boil
 
mrames said:
Has anyone used the cubed pumpkin and came out with a clearer result?
Click to expand...
I roasted a 4lb pie pumpkin (cut in half, scooped out seeds, placed halves face down in roasting pan w about 1/4" of water in it, 350 for 1 or 1.5 hrs), scooped out the pulp, and put it in a small grain bag while boiling. It's in the primary now, and blew a little pumpkin sludge out the blow-off tube, but after 4 days there's not a ton of sediment at the bottom. However, the grain bag of pumpkin did shrink a little during the boil, so there's some pumpkin floating around in there, so who knows how clear the result will be.

To passedpawn's point, how much do the good pumpkin ales out there really taste like pumpkin anyway? What does pumpkin taste like ... does it have a taste or does it provide a good texture for pumpkin spices in pies?
 
mrames said:
I can't recommend making this ST Imperial Pumking Ale the way I did using pumpkin from a can. I transfered from secondary into a second secondary today and in addition to the ale not being clear, there was over an inch of settled pumpkin in the bottom of the carboy. I racked off as much as I could without bringing in the sludge and probably lost another gallon of ale in addition to the gallon lost in primary. To net it out, the ale tastes good so far but canned pumpkin has resulted in a loss of two gallons of the batch. Since ST's Pumpking Ale is so incredibly clear, I am guessing ST either uses possibly cubed pumpkin or an extract? I can't see how even filtering would make it so clear as the pumpkin particles are so fine. Has anyone used the cubed pumpkin and came out with a clearer result?
Click to expand...
Nope, they use pumpkin puree. It's on the side of the bottle along with the other ingredients they use. They just have a much more advanced filtering system than any of us have access to. They bake the puree, just like most of us have tried doing here, it's just that they have the ability to do things to clear their beer up that we as homebrewers simply don't have, without suffering a loss of wort.
 
I just want to know how the hell they get the pie crust flavor in there!! I have had a tone of different pumpkin beers and none of them have that character but this one!! I seriously considered mashing with pie crust to try to get it but i was afraid of the butter haha
 
Why is nobody talking about the diacetyl in this beer? This beer has the most diacetyl I've EVER tasted... it almost makes me want to vomit in its butter-gourdy-melony glory. I really can't believe they can get away with it, but a pumpkin ale sure is the place to do it.

I really think you have to deliberately cultivate diacetyl to form in this beer. Maybe rack off and crash cool before the yeast clean it up?
 
wedge421 said:
I just want to know how the hell they get the pie crust flavor in there!! I have had a tone of different pumpkin beers and none of them have that character but this one!! I seriously considered mashing with pie crust to try to get it but i was afraid of the butter haha
Click to expand...

Maybe they finely mill the malt more than they usually would and it gives it more of a distinct taste? Maybe not.. It happened in my centennial blond; then again, it was more of a barely taste and not pie crust lol.
 
It think that taste you're referring to is the vanilla coupled with the malts, personally. Most pumpkin beers just throw cinnamon in there and call it a day. This beer is made with baked pumpkin, which is seasoned.
I gave mine a little taste from the secondary last night. It was good! Not bad for a first attempt, it wasn't an ST clone, but it was good...the only thing was I got a hint of banana flavor...stupid esthers! Guess I'll need to switch the yeast up next time.
 
I have a question. There is an all grain on here calling for a total of 18 lbs of grain total including malts and all. There is an extract calling for only 13 lbs total. I realize you need more malt to acheive what the extract gives you. My question is can I do EuBrew's recipe and cut down the amount of grain/malt at all, and still get something good?
I ask because I am restrained in my equipment currently. I'm using that Deathbrewer all grain method with the bag, and I had a hell of a time fitting 18lbs of grains in a five gallon pot, in fact, they were never fully submerged. I plan on upgrading to a larger pot soon, but in the mean time I'm curious about what would happen if I cut a pound or three of that stuff. Juuust curious.
 
Moody_Copperpot said:
I have a question. There is an all grain on here calling for a total of 18 lbs of grain total including malts and all. There is an extract calling for only 13 lbs total. I realize you need more malt to acheive what the extract gives you. My question is can I do EuBrew's recipe and cut down the amount of grain/malt at all, and still get something good?
I ask because I am restrained in my equipment currently. I'm using that Deathbrewer all grain method with the bag, and I had a hell of a time fitting 18lbs of grains in a five gallon pot, in fact, they were never fully submerged. I plan on upgrading to a larger pot soon, but in the mean time I'm curious about what would happen if I cut a pound or three of that stuff. Juuust curious.
Click to expand...


You could always sub some of the pale with LME or DME. I'll post an extract version that beersmith converts when I get a sec tonight.
 
suprchunk said:
I don't mention it, because I don't get it in my sample. You sure you know what it tastes like?
Click to expand...

I've definitely made a couple beers with diacetyl in my earlier brewing days. One ranged from a light slickness, to another with the biggest bubble of round-tasting, gourd, melon, english toffee, bite a hunk of butter bomb you've ever had. If Pumking doesn't have diacetyl, then they must use 10% butter in the mash.
 
That's strange. I didn't get the diacetyl taste. I'll have to look out for it in the future. But the one I drank two days ago had no diacetyl whatsoever. Or maybe I'm not as sensitive to it. I do like buttery popcorn, which has it purposely added. So I would like to think I can pick it out, as I have made a few early batches heavy in it as well.
 
I drank probably the hundreth bottle (in my lifetime, not this season) of Pumking last night, and something dawned on me. That caramely, almost buttery flavor that gives it that smooth taste is the grains. Is it at all possible that they roast the grains? Even possibly roast the grains in the oven with the pumpkin? I think that we are way over thinking this recipe. The ingredients are right there on the bottle for us. I don't believe they are using diacetyl or anything like that. I think the recipe is as simple as the bottle says it is, but the technique is really what the key is going to be to make this beer.
 
Moody_Copperpot said:
I drank probably the hundreth bottle (in my lifetime, not this season) of Pumking last night, and something dawned on me. That caramely, almost buttery flavor that gives it that smooth taste is the grains. Is it at all possible that they roast the grains? Even possibly roast the grains in the oven with the pumpkin? I think that we are way over thinking this recipe. The ingredients are right there on the bottle for us. I don't believe they are using diacetyl or anything like that. I think the recipe is as simple as the bottle says it is, but the technique is really what the key is going to be to make this beer.
Click to expand...

There has to be some spices (i.e., ginger) in there. No spices are listed on the bottle. So, I would bet that the list of ingredients on the bottle is incomplete.
 
I agree with you on the spices, I omitted that part from my post apparently, haha. There have to be spices in there, but I feel like I've been over complicating things when I try and figure out the "secret" to this beer is more my point, I guess.
 
Well that settles it, I'm at least going to TRY that flavoring, what could it hurt?! I really smell the grains when I crack one open. Thinking of baking my specialty grains with the pumpkin next time. Can anyone think of any adverse effects this could have?
 
I'm wondering what most people are doing with the pumpkin addition(s). Are you adding it in the mash, the primary, elsewhere, or both? I'd like to think that I could caramelize the pumpkin in the oven and add a good 20% of the milled grains in the oven with the pumpkin and add at all to the mash, but I'd think that if I wanted to add to the mash, I'd need to let it sit for a lot longer (say ~120 minutes) before being content with tossing the pumpkin. I'd also want to add some pumpkin in the primary as well...

Man, we are thinking too hard into this I think.

But maybe there is something to adding the pumpkin in the mash and letting it sit for longer? Pumking is practically a desert beer, so I'd think a higher mash temp + a longer rest might add some kind of additional flavor, I'm just not sure if it's the flavor we'd be looking for..
 
That's kinda what I'm thinking here...we're over thinking it. My wife and I split three of them this evening. If you drink this beer, it's not strong on spices at all. The main taste is almost this caramely, grainy flavor, with hints of the spices. It makes me think that they perhaps caramelize the pumpkin and specialty grains or something like that. There is no heavy vanilla extract or spicey anything to it...it's just this pefectly balanced beer.
 
The flavor is not in the caramelized pumpkin. I did that to my current pumpkin ale and it and the Pumking share no distinct relations. The graham cracker creaminess, in my humble opinion, can only come from lactose and an extract. I think that Southern Tier purposely omits a few of the extract inclusions on purpose.
 
95% 2 row and 5% crystal 60 and then 1 pound of pumpkin per 31 gallons and .12 oz of each of ginger, cinnamon, clove, and vanilla per 10 gallons.

I was WRONG!! There is vanilla in it! This the recipe for pumking.
 
twoodward15 said:
95% 2 row and 5% crystal 60 and then 1 pound of pumpkin per 31 gallons and .12 oz of each of ginger, cinnamon, clove, and vanilla per 10 gallons.

I was WRONG!! There is vanilla in it! This the recipe for pumking.
Click to expand...
Any idea when the spices are added? They are very subtle, there is no in your face cinnamon or anything like there is in other pumpkin beers.
 
Go back in the thread and you will find two Pumking Ale reciies with the hops, one from me and one from another guy. The recipes are VERY similar including the hops with the difference being the hop schedules. Take it from me, do NOT use pumpkin from a can, too hard to remove.

The recipe above came from someone on the web who says they got it from the Pumking brewmaster and went on to say don't quote them on the spices. So who knows.
 
he said dont quote him on a thread from another forum because he wanted to double check the email.

With that said... there HAS to be more to this beer for that kind of aroma. i had some today and it was just way more than just grains... there is no way grains smell like that... amazing beer.
 
Crack one open again, pour it into the glass and take in a biiiig whif of it. I promise you that one of the main components to that wonderous aroma is the grains. It's a caramely/grainy smell, and there is of course more to it than that, but I'm telling you that I believe of the main secrets with this beer is the technique. They use baked pumpkin puree, says so on the bottle. I don't know if the grains are baked in with the pumpkin or what, but damn is this a good beer.
 
the smell is just so strong. I have never smelled a beer so aromatic. you are most likely correct in that a good part of it is just the grains, but there has to be something else there too.
 
Oh I totally agree, there is more to it than just the grains...it's one of life's great mysteries I suppose! My wife and I shared one last night while watching Halloween(1978 version...the only version) and every time I have one I just cannot believe how good it is.
 
i can tell you this much... my brew day was a disaster on this beer for new equipment / adjusting to it reasons... we wont go into that (ugh!!)

but while i was carrying the vanilla extract bottle over to the kettle, i squeezed it with the cap on it and had a faint whiff of the air that came out of the bottle... it was VERY much the smell i get from pumking.. there is no doubt at all, that vanilla has a large part in that beer.
 
Moody_Copperpot said:
Agreed. I want to give that graham cracker extract a shot too, out of curiousity.
Click to expand...
while the graham cracker extract helped, it's still not pumking. i recommend giving the graham cracker extract a shot but don't expect it to be dead on first shot using it. it's gonna take tweaking. my pumkin recipe this year tastes very little of pumpkin and very much of vanilla and graham cracker. still good, but not what i was going for. the buttery diacetyl is not there like it should be. i'm gonna smart-balance my grains b4 brewing next time:drunk:
 
For this years' pumpkin ale I decided to try to clone ST Pumking. I did a side-by-side last and it is very difficult to tell it from the genuine article. The intense aroma, unique graham cracker/raw pumpkin flavour, and spicing are all there. Recipe is based on label/ST website, various forums and my own speculation and tweaking when racking to secondary. I think the keys are the lactose and the ginger/vanilla. I really wasn't expecting that I would closely replicate the unique flavour profile of pumking, so I am both surprised and very pleased with the outcome.

Vol: 5.5 gal
Kettle Vol: 7 gal
OG: 1.090
IBU: appx. 34
SRM: appx. 11

Fermentables:
14 lbs. 2-Row Pale malt
1 lb. Victory
12 oz. Crystal 80°L
1 large Pumpkin (skinned, cubed and roasted with honey then added to mash)
1 lb. Demerara sugar (added after hot break)

Hops:
3/4 oz. Magnum @ 60 min.
1/4 oz. Saaz @ 15 min.

Additives:
8 oz. Lactose @ 15 min.
1/2 tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min.
1 Whirlfloc tab @ 10 min.
2 tbsp. chopped Candied Ginger @ 5 min.
2 Cinnamon sticks @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Cloves @ 5 min.
1.2 tsp. grated Nutmeg @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Allspice @ 5 min.
1 Vanilla Bean (added to secondary)
1/2 tsp. ground Cinnamon (added to secondary)

Yeast:
2 packs Safale US-05

Mashed @ 152°F for 90 min.

Boiled for 60 min.

Fermented @ 66°F RT for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary. Force carbonated in keg.

Notes: The lactose could possibly be increased from 8 oz. to 10 oz., but definitely no more than that. Excluding the allspice and nutmeg might nudge it even closer to an exact clone, but it is not critical. I think that they key elements are the victory malt, lactose, vanilla and ginger.
 
Cannondale said:
For this years' pumpkin ale I decided to try to clone ST Pumking. I did a side-by-side last and it is very difficult to tell it from the genuine article. The intense aroma, unique graham cracker/raw pumpkin flavour, and spicing are all there. Recipe is based on label/ST website, various forums and my own speculation and tweaking when racking to secondary. I think the keys are the lactose and the ginger/vanilla. I really wasn't expecting that I would closely replicate the unique flavour profile of pumking, so I am both surprised and very pleased with the outcome.

Vol: 5.5 gal
Kettle Vol: 7 gal
OG: 1.090
IBU: appx. 34
SRM: appx. 11

Fermentables:
14 lbs. 2-Row Pale malt
1 lb. Victory
12 oz. Crystal 80°L
1 large Pumpkin (skinned, cubed and roasted with honey then added to mash)
1 lb. Demerara sugar (added after hot break)

Hops:
3/4 oz. Magnum @ 60 min.
1/4 oz. Saaz @ 15 min.

Additives:
8 oz. Lactose @ 15 min.
1/2 tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min.
1 Whirlfloc tab @ 10 min.
2 tbsp. chopped Candied Ginger @ 5 min.
2 Cinnamon sticks @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Cloves @ 5 min.
1.2 tsp. grated Nutmeg @ 5 min.
1/2 tsp. Allspice @ 5 min.
1 Vanilla Bean (added to secondary)
1/2 tsp. ground Cinnamon (added to secondary)

Yeast:
2 packs Safale US-05

Mashed @ 152°F for 90 min.

Boiled for 60 min.

Fermented @ 66°F RT for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary. Force carbonated in keg.

Notes: The lactose could possibly be increased from 8 oz. to 10 oz., but definitely no more than that. Excluding the allspice and nutmeg might nudge it even closer to an exact clone, but it is not critical. I think that they key elements are the victory malt, lactose, vanilla and ginger.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So, the cinnamon sticks and other additions in the boil did not make it into the fermentor?

Could you pick up the ginger? I've used candied ginger in a saison and it was undetectable. I can definitely taste it in the Pumking.

Thanks for contributing to this thread.
 
But the bottle of pumking says they use Magnum and Sterling hops, not Saaz. Are saaz and sterling similar? I'm excited to give your recipe a shot!
 
passedpawn: No the cinnamon sticks and other additions were filtered from the wort when transferring to primary. Tha vanilla bean was added to secondary. I added the 1/2 tsp. of ground cinnamon was added to secondary because felt that there wasn't quite enough cinnamon flavour coming out of primary. The ginger flavour is detectable. I chopped the candied ginger up very fine, which may have been the difference.

Moody_Copperpot: I didn't have sterling on hand. I did have a pile of saaz, which happens to be considered the best sterling substitute.
 
Cannondale said:
passedpawn: No the cinnamon sticks and other additions were filtered from the wort when transferring to primary. Tha vanilla bean was added to secondary. I added the 1/2 tsp. of ground cinnamon was added to secondary because felt that there wasn't quite enough cinnamon flavour coming out of primary. The ginger flavour is detectable. I chopped the candied ginger up very fine, which may have been the difference.

Moody_Copperpot: I didn't have sterling on hand. I did have a pile of saaz, which happens to be considered the best sterling substitute.
Click to expand...

Ahhh okay, that's what I was wondering. I've only been brewing about a year, so I'm still a tad foggy on what can substitue what. You recipe seems very promising!
 

Similar threads

S
Autumn Wheat Ale
Replies
5
Views
1K
kwilson16
kwilson16
Zippy123
Feedback on recipe to split mash for two different beers
Replies
2
Views
394
Zippy123
Zippy123
Gadjobrinus
Festbier - first lager back in.
Replies
17
Views
1K
Brooothru
Brooothru
Gadjobrinus
Riggwelter - hops & grist?
Replies
0
Views
507
Gadjobrinus
Gadjobrinus
Gadjobrinus
3 potential new - Best, Strong Bitter, Imperial Stout
Replies
14
Views
1K
Gadjobrinus
Gadjobrinus

Latest posts

Back
Top