Which beers are more suited for short fermentation?

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h22lude

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Just a real generic question...what's a good way of figuring out if a beer is better suited for long fermentation (3 to 4 weeks) or short (week to 2 weeks, like a session beer)?

My instinct is the lower the ABV the less time it would need to completely ferment and clean up after itself. And the higher the ABV the longer it would need to ferment and clean up after itself. But those are just guesses.

So if my assumption was correct, a good way to determine a session beer is less fermentable sugar than a typical ale so less grains used. Or am I way off?
 
Most ale fermentations should be complete within a couple of days, regardless of gravity if enough healthy yeast is being used. Upon the completion of fermentation, by-products created during this process (like diacetyl) should be taken up within 48 hours.

Yes, off flavors may mellow and flavors may meld over the course of 4 weeks, but in my opinion, it is complete overkill. It is my personal belief that if you need flavors to go away within 4 weeks' time, then it is a procedural problem.

If you want a super fast fermentation, get some healthy 002/1968 or 028/1728, grow the recommended quantity, ferment at the correct temperature, and you can see complete attenuation within 48 hours. I have been using 1728 recently and kegging my beers at the 7-8 day mark with no (discernible to me) glaring issues.
 
Session beer does not "always" refer to alcoholic content.

For example, a Low ABV Milk Stout will be light on alcohol but heavy on the mouthfeel and gut due to unfermentables. Thus, not exactly "sessionable".

Yet, a well brewed highly attentuated Belgian Quad may be quaffable until you pass out.

Gravity is a good indication but, you have to bear in mind the affect of unfermentables on sessionability too.


As to the OQ, Original Gravity would be the best indicator of fermentation time coupled with attenuation of the yeast.
 
Most ale fermentations should be complete within a couple of days, regardless of gravity if enough healthy yeast is being used. Upon the completion of fermentation, by-products created during this process (like diacetyl) should be taken up within 48 hours.

This is exactly what I was going to say. ANY ale will be finished in 3-5 days (5 at the absolute outside, such as in a colder fermentation of 60 degrees). The key is to always pitch the correct amount of yeast, whether the beer is a 1.039 mild or a 1.090 tripel. A day or two after the beer has reached FG is all that's needed for diacetyl clean up, and possibly not that long.

A well made beer never needs three weeks in the fermenter, although being there probably won't harm it. Even my lagers (which take a bit longer to ferment out at a cold temperature) aren't in the primary for 3 weeks!
 
I always let it sit for three weeks in the primary and skip the secondary, you are saying a week in the primary is long enough?
 
I always let it sit for three weeks in the primary and skip the secondary, you are saying a week in the primary is long enough?

If the beer is done, and has been at FG for at least three days, yes.

But I normally leave my beer in primary 2 weeks and make sure it's perfectly clear before racking because I'm in no rush.
 
I always let it sit for three weeks in the primary and skip the secondary, you are saying a week in the primary is long enough?

I wish I had bottled my English Special Bitter/Pale Ale at one week, it had this tremendously delicious orange flavor that disapeared during days 7 through 12 on me and I had been at FG since day 4 or 5. Some beers don't need 2-4 weeks, some do.
 
If the beer is done, and has been at FG for at least three days, yes.

But I normally leave my beer in primary 2 weeks and make sure it's perfectly clear before racking because I'm in no rush.

I always knew most ales would be completely fermented after a few days but I always thought the norm was at least 3 weeks, 4 if possible.

Now that I know as long as a good yeast count, healthy yeast and the right fermentation temp can ferment and clear a beer in 2 weeks, I will have a better pipeline lol

I think one of my bigger problems as to why I kept my beers in primary for at least 3 weeks (usually 4) is because I never make starters and just pitch the vial. There just haven't been enough yeast to ferment and clear the beer quick enough.

This is great news lol
 
I don't get it.....the last 10000 posts I have seen said "4 weeks" and now this? what is the truth?
 
I don't get it.....the last 10000 posts I have seen said "4 weeks" and now this? what is the truth?

It's not that one of us is right and several of us are wrong. You certainly can leave the beer in the fermenter for a month, especially if you feel it needs the time to "clean up".

My position is simply that a well-made beer doesn't need any such amount of time and that a very verbal minority make it seem like it's the right thing to do. It's not. It might not hurt a thing, but it certainly isn't necessary.
 
The truth is found out by your own experimentation and arriving at what works best for you. I've left beers in primary for 5 days and 5 weeks. Some yeast drop out quickly (highly flocculating strains that I mentioned above) and I can move them to keg within 6 days. Others take more time (001/1056/S-05 is the most popular yeast strain by far, but in my hands, it takes a while to flocc out). Recently, on the same day, I brewed beers using 1728 and S-05 - I kegged the 1728 quick, but the S-05 is still in the fermentor because it took a couple more days to finish fermentation and hasn't flocced out enough for my tastes yet.

If you have off flavors or what-not, then perhaps time will help them mellow, but it's not always the case - time isn't going to heal everything despite what certain people want to tell you. A lot of people say that yeast need this time to "clean up off flavors from fermentation." This is crap advice, IMO. Most of these "off-flavors" shouldn't be there in the first place, so I suspect not enough yeast being pitched, or too warm a fermentation temperature. You may have some diacetyl with particular yeast strains (notably some English ones), but this should be metabolised within 48 hours at the latest.
 
I don't get it.....the last 10000 posts I have seen said "4 weeks" and now this? what is the truth?

The truth is what works with your system, the yeast you use and the beer you brew. Gravity also plays a huge role,along with how careful you are about fermentation temperatures.

I started out with the 3 weeks minimum mindset and now, after experimentation and refining my process, I'm usually ready to bottle by day 10 (if not 7).
 
I'm of the camp that time does help mellow and clean things, but that's just my opinion. It's also my opinion that it doesn't matter if you let it mellow in the primary, a secondary, or in the bottle. I use a secondary, but that's just because that's what I was taught and I'm comfortable with it. I also have room for 3 carboys to condition.

But if you've hit your FG in your primary, you don't have to worry about bottle bombs. You can either go to a secondary or to the bottle, doesn't matter where you let it age.
 
I have found that 3-4 weeks after brewing is just not long enough for some of the flavors to come out. that being said i have drank a lot my beers that change in taste from day to day! i try and let them all sit 5-6 weeks just because, in my mind, it is what i think is right...not that it is right....
 
so are you guys in the 1-2 week camp going by hydrometer readings only? and how long are you bottle conditioning after the short ferment? I dont like to wait ,,but I also dont like funky beer :)
 
I try to go four weeks in the bottle at least. Takes at least a week to carbonate, then I just let it sit for a while after that.
 
so are you guys in the 1-2 week camp going by hydrometer readings only? and how long are you bottle conditioning after the short ferment? I dont like to wait ,,but I also dont like funky beer :)

Gravity readings, yes, but more importantly, taste. I keg, so I don't bother making sure my FG is exactly the same for 3 days. If it's in the ballpark of where I expect it to be, I just give it a taste and decide whether or not it needs more time. 95% of the time, it goes in the keg. Occasionally, I'll have some diacetyl to get rid of and I might warm it up for few days to make sure the yeast stays active.

Also, for the fellow who mentioned "pitching from the vial"; I know I'm in a minority of a minority around here, but I don't think that has anything to do with off flavors which would require clean up. The way I see it, if I'm spending good money on liquid yeast, it's because I want the unique esters they provide and "underpitching" actually helps get what I'm looking for in the finished beer (I should note that I almost exclusively brew in the 1.040 to 1.065 range). If I want a "clean" beer, it gets a sachet of S-05 which would be the proper pitching rate.

Temperature, on the other hand, can definitely get you into trouble. I don't care how much yeast you pitch, if your internal temps are near or above the top of the recommended range for your yeast, you're gonna have some nasty problems. Get your temps under control before you ever worry about a starter.
 
Depends on a lot of variables for me but I lean to the less than 4 weeks side. I like to let my big beers and dark beers sit longer but alot of that time is in bottles.
 
This is the internet, opinions vary. People read a post or article and run with what they read as gospel. When an opportunity arises in a forum to regurgitate what they believe is correct they will post it as gospel. Your mission if you decide to accept it, is to take what you read and apply it to your circumstance. They're are so many different variables that it's not a one size fits all answer. The answer to your original question has already been answered here (yoop, yoop) so I wont add to that.
 
so are you guys in the 1-2 week camp going by hydrometer readings only? and how long are you bottle conditioning after the short ferment? I dont like to wait ,,but I also dont like funky beer :)

I rarely go only one week, it's usually about two, unless I'm making a mild or something and using highly flocculant yeast. Two weeks (including dryhopping) is about right usually.

But I don't go strictly by hydrometer readings. The FG is probably reached by day 3, usually. I wait until about day 10-12 to either keg or dryhop. At that time, I check the beer. When I pull out a sample, I check the FG and then hold the sample up to the light and check for clarity. I taste it. If it's not ready (it almost always is), then I don't package the beer at that time.

As was mentioned, there are a couple of keys to doing this. One is to pitch enough yeast, to approximate professional pitch rates. Keep the fermentation temperature controlled. Use a highly flocculant yeast, although some hard-to-clear beers will clear with cold treatment. I'm with pseudochef- S05 can be a bugger to clear. But it still clears with a week in the keg at cold temperatures.

I want a beer that looks, smells and tastes like it could be a commercial beer. I don't want a cloudy, yeasty, "homebrew". This technique works for me quite well, and I'm happy with it.

There are lots of different techniques and opinions, so I think everybody should try different techniques and see what is best for them.
 
Hmm, this is an interesting thread. I usually go 3 weeks for ales less than 6%, and then 4 for ales higher than 6% and (mock) lagers.

I have a carboy full of an IPA that is dry hopping now (10 days old), I was going to let it sit until next weekend (10 days from now) but now I might just keg it this weekend and have a taste.
 
This thread is mind blowing!

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I have a carboy full of an IPA that is dry hopping now (10 days old), I was going to let it sit until next weekend (10 days from now) but now I might just keg it this weekend and have a taste.
I think what's being suggested is just the opposite. Draw a sample and "have a taste". Then decide if it's ready to keg.





. . . When I pull out a sample, I check the FG and then hold the sample up to the light and check for clarity. I taste it. If it's not ready (it almost always is), then I don't package the beer at that time.
 
Yooper said:
But I don't go strictly by hydrometer readings. The FG is probably reached by day 3, usually. I wait until about day 10-12 to either keg or dryhop. .

This is obviousynfor ales but you are also saying it's not much diff with lagers.....I have read a lot of D rest posts that recommend 10 days. - My understanding is D rests only work if you are not fully attenuated....
So how are you doing your lagers ( I'm doing your Marzen as soon as the Midwest shipment gets here)?
 
This is obviousynfor ales but you are also saying it's not much diff with lagers.....I have read a lot of D rest posts that recommend 10 days. - My understanding is D rests only work if you are not fully attenuated....
So how are you doing your lagers ( I'm doing your Marzen as soon as the Midwest shipment gets here)?

For lagers, I keep the beer at fermentation temperature about 5-7 days, or until the beer is about 75% of the way to FG or about 1.020. This depends on the strain, usually, but once it starts to slow down I check the SG to see if I"m close to 75% of the way to FG.

Then I do the diacetyl rest for 48 hours. If after 48 hours, there is ANY hint of diacetyl, however slight, like even a slight oily mouthfeel or a slickness, I maintain the d-rest temps until it's gone.

After the diacetyl rest, I rack and begin the lagering process.
 
Forgive my ignorance but, can you/do you lager it in the bottle when you bottle?
Same for ales...ffor bottling purposes do you bottle age after the 3-7 days primary is up?
Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but this is a bit of a paradigm shift for me and I don't keg so I am trying to correlate to my process.
 
Brewskii said:
Forgive my ignorance but, can you/do you lager it in the bottle when you bottle?
Same for ales...ffor bottling purposes do you bottle age after the 3-7 days primary is up?
Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but this is a bit of a paradigm shift for me and I don't keg so I am trying to correlate to my process.

When you bottle, you will want to do it at room temp close to 70*
 
Yooper said:
After the diacetyl rest, I rack and begin the lagering process.

If you keg, you are racking to a keg and age/lager in that; correct?
What I'm asking is if you don't keg, do you rack to a secondary fermenter and lager ( store for multiple weeks at mid/low 30s) then bottle OR- would you bottle it and lager ( store for multiple weeks at mid/low 30s) in the bottle?
 
Yooper said:
For lagers, I keep the beer at fermentation temperature about 5-7 days...

After the diacetyl rest, I rack and begin the lagering process.
Primary = 5-7 days
D-rest= 2-3 days
Secondary= 14 days
Lager = 6 weeks
Then bottle
Bottle condition = 3 weeks
Provided you don't die a sudden unexplained death I sould be enjoying a nice cold lager in roughly 13 short weeks of I understand your Yoopers Marzen post correctly.
Has your philosophy changed at all on any of that or does that basically cover it ?
BTW.... Thanks for a great recipie post in that
 
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