Need help designing an electric brew rig

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mrwizard0

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I am in the planning stages of building an electric rig. I'm married so I don't have all the money that I need for a complete setup, and I move a lot so I can of guarantee having 240v. As a matter of fact, I currently dot have 240v that I can use. For now, my goal is to make my HLT with a herman coil all electric. I will be using a 5 gal round igloo cooler to house the coil.

On to the place I need help. I've been looking at a whole bunch of threads and their associated wiring diagrams. I have never really worked with wiring so I'm not sure where to start with the diagrams. I have been looking for a pid for my controller, but I don't know how to wire it so that it controls the system. Also, I can't tell whether people are controlling the heating element or the pump.

I'm sure there are so good threads on here that I haven't found, if anyone can send some my way or know of a place to get really good directions on how to wire up the whole system to work I would greatly appreciate it. As always, thanks for all the awesome help!
 
Hi

Before you put much money into this - stop and look at the power available. A "normal" 110V outlet will trip the breaker at 15A. Depending on how this and that is wired you may only be able to count on 10A. You will need some sort of supplemental heat for boiling and likely for other things as well.

Pump is simple: switch goes between the power line and the pump. No controllers, nothing exotic. To make it even simpler - wire the pump to a cord and unplug it when you want it turned off.

Heat can be as simple as an eBay controller or it can be a lot more exotic. With your limited power availability, I'd just go the eBay route. Controller wires to the power line to run it. Relay in the controller wires to the power line and to the heater (to control it). That's pretty much it. Not many wires going not many places.

There are a few minor "how to do basic wiring" sort of things, but that's better done once you decide what you are doing.

Bob
 
Thanks for the start and the heads up on the breakers. Just to clarify, I don't intent to boil with it. Just heat spare water and to keep the mash temp constant. For now I will still boil using my propane burner
 
Here is a diagram that I modified off of one of PJs diagrams, if anyone sees anything crazy please let me know. Its fairly possible I missed something while making adjustments or even more likely that I am just an idiot.

Electric Brewery Plan.jpg
 
Here is a diagram that I modified off of one of PJs diagrams, if anyone sees anything crazy please let me know. Its fairly possible I missed something while making adjustments or even more likely that I am just an idiot.
First: I have no clue which diagram you chose to modify. (You deleted all of the info that was specific to the base diagram.)

Next: The image you posted is so small I can not read it or cypher the changes you made..

Wish I could help but, as it is, I don't stand a chance.

Good luck.
 
Hey PJ,

I definitely want help. However, I want to redraw the diagram so you can read it. I feel if I do it this way I will understand it better and be less likely to kill myself as I build it.

The drawing I modified was from this thread and it was the pic in post 14

I am currently redrawing the diagram and hope to have it up later tonight. Along with everyone, I appreciate all the work you do for us here!
 
Well I did the best I could to provide a diagram for you. Some of it I could not figure out. Your second diagram is completely different as well. I hope this one helps you.

As always: Click the image for a full scale diagram that can be printed on tabloid paper (11" x 17").




P-J
 
My second one was different because I was trying to use a bigger diagram that I found. I appreciate the help, yours looks close to what I had thought and that makes me feel like I am on the right track. Now to just get all the stuff an start putting it together. Thanks again

Pat
 
someday, I'm going to learn how to read an electrical schematic and build one of these w/o cooking myself:) I've built quite a few sets of speakers and can read a crossover schematic, so maybe there is hope for me. Those speaker schematics don't have water in the mix though;)
 
I'm most of the way done putting my control panel together, pics will show up when I'm done. I do have another question though. I'm trying to decide if I should run a long extension cable outside (since the wife hates the smell) or if I should put in a breaker/receptacle in the garage. I will be using a spa panel as well so I would just need the 30 amp breaker. My question is what type of breaker do I need? I have a picture that I took with my phone of the breaker panel if that helps. Also, the panel is flush with the wall, do I need a permit to add the outlet? All right, I guess I had 2 questions.

image-2680933564.jpg
 
It appears that your breaker panel has been butchered by someone. This is very apparent as several blank breaker positions are covered with duct tape to isolate the buss bars from your hands. That is a really bad scene and needs to be fixed ASAP.!

I suggest that you have an electrician install the 240V 30A breaker for you and run a 4 wire power line and outlet for your setup. He can also easily fix up your mains panel to insure your safety.

Please be very careful with the set up as it is now.

P-J
 
I noticed the duct tape too. It's the first time I've looked into it and I was kinda shocked
 
I guess I should clarify, I was surprised not shocked. Though if I poke around any more I might be shocked
 
Ok, still waiting on one more L6-30 outlet for my control panel and then it will be done. I had my breaker panel cleaned up and the new outlet installed. I have an order for quick disconnects, o rings and 1 chugger pump, for now. Though I'm on a budget and I'm only upgrading slowly, I should be able to make my next brew on an electric system. I will still be waiting on a new kettle for my herms but that will definitely take a while. I'm excited about trying out my new setup!
 
Ok, I FINALLY have my control panel built. so its time to throw up some pics showing the progress.

Here is my box cut and ready for the components
DSC02816.jpgDSC02817.jpg

Test fit of the components
DSC02815.jpgDSC02819.jpg
 
Here is the inside, i used a 12x12x8 control box so it was unbelievably tight and it was difficult to run the wire neatly.
DSC02831.jpgDSC02832.jpg

and the outside
DSC02830.jpgDSC02833.jpg

I have fired it up, the sestos timer is setup, however i havent had a chance to work with the PIDs. I am currently working on getting my kettles setup. the biggest problem i have right now is that i am out of money from the wife for a little while. I have one 20 gallon kettle, and all the attachments that will be going on my boil kettle. so for now, i will be using my system as i was with propane and coolers. heating the strike water, sparge water will all be done in the boil kettle and then moved, which brings me to the chugger pump that my wife got me. i cant wait to get the kettle done so i can test it out, and then finally get to my first brew.

there are no labels on my panel but the pid on the left is for the HLT and the one on the right is for the BK. as for the plugs, the upper plugs/rtd are associated with the left most item.
 
It has one to select HLT or BK and alarm for each PID and alarm for the timer and a pause/reset for the timer, one for each pump, an emergency stop and then a main power switch. I'm not sure if I could have done it with less. It looks cramped because it's such a small box
 
I like the box, looks like the perfect size to me. Just have to spend more time carefully planning out and wiring the interior. Where did you get the box at?
 
It has one to select HLT or BK and alarm for each PID and alarm for the timer and a pause/reset for the timer, one for each pump, an emergency stop and then a main power switch. I'm not sure if I could have done it with less. It looks cramped because it's such a small box
I wasn't being critical; only joking. Who doesn't like buttons? Good work.
 
No worries, if you can think of a few more and see a place to put them maybe I could add some more
 
Though i still dont have a HERMs coil setup, I got to use my electric BK and my pump for the first time today. It worked great. I learned alot about my system the hard way though. For example, when heating the strike/sparge water there was a huge difference in temp when i stuck my thermometer in the pot and the water that was coming out of the pump. I had been stirring but that didnt seem to help enough. I turned on my pump and let it recirculate that way and it worked a lot better.

The recipe i used had flaked barley it it, and it was the first time that I had ever used it, so I ended up with a stuck sparge. for the first 5 minutes I assumed that I had just some wierd issues with the pump since i had never really used it before and it seems like everyone has issues priming them the first time they use them. Anyways, get the sparge unstuck was a pain in the arse but I got it done and got the wort over to the boil kettle.

Boil was fine exept that I ended up boiling off too much and ended up with only like 4 gallons, I topped back up to 5. I have the money now to get the hlt started so hopefully my next boil will have better temp control for the mash vs my cooler that I am still using. I guess I will still be using the cooler next brew too since I can't afford to get the mash tun and a new false bottom for it yet.

Anyways, it was awesome and it was way faster than heating with my old burner. Even with the stuck sparge, it took me about the same amount of time as with my burner!
 
Working on getting some parts together and had some thoughts:

1. I only have 1 pump at the moment and I was thinking of putting the rtd prior to the ball valve on my mlt so I could still get a reading. Obviously I will have to stir to prevent stratification, but I don't know if it will give me an accurate enough temperature.

2. I was thinking about putting my other rtd on the input side of the coil on the mlt. I figure the wort flowing wont cool down too much and I will still get a good reading. Also, I will be putting ice water in my hlt and running it to a plate chiller, and the wort will flow from bk to plate chiller to the coil in the hlt and the back to the bk. With the pid on the coil I should get a good reading of my cool down temp.

Does anyone see any issues with either of these ideas?
 
in an effort to shorten my brew day as much as possible, I made a small change to my control panel today. I call the new section a preheat circuit. The idea behind it is that i fill my HLT with water the night before im going to brew, set the temp on the PID, and set the timer for when i want the water to start heating. the timer counts down so i have to set it for time from now until when i want to brew. i can then turn off the pids and set the alarm/preheat switch to preheat. when the timer goes off it powers the pid and it powers the coil to the hlt allowing it to heat the water. the goal will be to have the water ready to go, or at least close, when i am starting to brew. the biggest problem is that the pump will not be running so i will have some stratification and the temp wont be perfect.

Here is the new wiring diagram that I used:
Final Wiring Diagram v2.jpg
 
So in theory, could not my Sestos B2E alarm trigger a relay to open and close a switch to a 1/2 hp pump? Even if i coupled the timer to an SSR?
 
vegoiltycoon said:
So in theory, could not my Sestos B2E alarm trigger a relay to open and close a switch to a 1/2 hp pump? Even if i coupled the timer to an SSR?

Yes. The alarm timer is 120v output so what ever you use to switch the pump would have to accept 120v. I don't know a lot about ssrs, other than the ones that I used in my build. But I think they are mostly dc. You could easily use it to control a contactor like the ones in my build. I have a preheat circuit in my system that uses the timer to power the contactor for the hlt as well as to turn on the pid for the hlt. If you check out my wiring diagram you can see that. I think or your build you want the pump running until the timer stops, so you would have to move the timer output to the nc position, that way when the timer gets to 0 it opens and the pumps would shut off
 
Awesome,sir! That's exactly what i wanted to hear! Everyone else here was telling me i could not use the timer to control my pump. Mounted in one control panel will be 2 Sestos D1S's, 2 Sestos B2E's, hopefully 2 240LED's to indicate element operation, and 2 120volt green lights to indicate pump opration. Timer 1 will time Pump 1 and Heater 1 for like 8 hours. This pump and heater are mounted on a 55 gal drum circulating oil through a centrifuge at 200° to dewater and filter oil. After determined time, B2E 1 will shut Pump 1 and Heater 1 off. At this point, I move the oil in this drum into the reactor tank. D1S one controls temps in this tank, B2E two times circulation Pump 2 and Heater 2 for 2.5hours then shuts it all down. Then it the biodiesel settles the glycerin out. I drain off the Glycerin from the bottom.
 
Is the heater that you are using like the water heater we use where it can't be run dry? And I assume that it runs on 240v
 
Here is my best hack at it, im not an electronics guys but it passes my sanity check. you should make sure some other people look at it.Wiring Diagram biodesiel.jpg
 
Yessir, I can see why they call you Mr Wizard! I can't quite make out the details, is there any possible way to enlarge it? I am so happy to have this,so please don't go through too much more effort on my behalf. And yes, i believe my heaters are the same as you all ,240 volt. Cannot stand dry firing. If i can understand the schematic, Timer 1 and Timer 2 don't actually communicate with PID 1 and PID 2, they just cut their power after said time? This works for my application if this is so. I wonder if i utilized a higher amperage SSR if I could use an 8k or 11k watt element.
 
I can enlarge it when I get home, I'm not sure why it shrank. If you use higher ssrs to definately could use higher wattage heaters, you would also have to increase the allowable amperage of the contractors as well. And you are correct that the timers don't talk to the pids. When the time is up it just shuts down power to the contactor so that no power goes to the heater. I thought about it powering the pid, but then the pid wouldn't turn on until the timer started and there is a little boot up time where the heaters wouldn't be running
 

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