Chlorophenols in primary

I am frustrated by chlorophenols! I have had these boogers pop up in some batches..and confirmed by judges in competition. I'm talking about the plasticy aroma and flavor version of phenols. I have treated my last 6 or 7 batches with campden and they have been pretty clean. However, after some time in the bottle, my last batch began showing some chlorophenolic character in addition to being very overcarbed. This appeared in some of my remaining bottles, but not all of them. None of the bottles opened earlier showed this character. My most recent batch, after 1.5 weeks in the primary , is smelling very plasticy in the primary. WTF? I sanitize with iodophor, brew either extract or partial mash, and ferment in a better bottle or glass carboy. I typically do not secondary and bottle after three weeks. All of my bottles are rinsed and brushed after using and are then cleaned, rinsed, and sanitized on bottling day. Am I picking up an infection somewhere along the way? Is it showing late in the bottle in the previous batch and showing sooner in the batch that's in the primary? (The previous batch was a lager, btw, and pretty tasty until last week). Do infections show themselves as chlorophenols? I treat every bit of water that touches anything with campden. Could the iodophor play a role? Help!!! Any ideas, suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated!

Chlorophenols are tough, as they do have several causes. In addition to chlorine/chloramines in brewing water, infection does indeed cause those plastic flavors. I know one time that I had an infection that caused my off-flavor. I did a 10 gallon batch, and split it into two fermenters. One came out great, and one came out with such bad phenolic character that I had to dump it. It reminded me of the chlorophenols that come from chlorinated water and I would have thought that was the cause, except the other fermenter had perfect beer. It had to have been a bacterial infection in the one bucket.

It could be your water. Campden should clear that up, but if your water is ver thigh in chlorine and/or chloramine that could be the cause. I've also heard that bacteria can create a phenolic flavor/aroma, but infections are rare and it sounds like your sanitation is up to par. When I first started brewing, I noticed a slight phenolic taste in my lighter beers and narrowed it down to my over treated city water. Since then I've either pre boiled my brewing water and used campden or used bottled spring water for my brews and it's never popped up again. I'd do some trouble shooting, maybe focus on the water, and see if you can't narrow it down. Make sure you keep your sanitation up to par so you can eliminate the possibility of contamination. Good luck, this sort of thing can be really frustrating to figure out.

any suggestions on approach?

are you using any hoses, especially garden hoses, to get your water for brew day? Also, not all the bottles showed this flavor? That almost sounds like a bottle born infection which has now made it into your primary equipment.

step 1, I'd make a small batch with store bought spring water.

Yeah....I think that's the direction that I am going to head. No hoses for water - straight from the tap into a 4 gallon plastic carboy with a hunk of campden tab. I use that water for everything...including sanitizer....then refill and more campden as needed. I guess if I do a batch with r/o water that will point me in a direction. This batch in my primary that smell plasticy hasn't touched any transfer hoses or anything....boil kettle...cooled with immersion chiller.....pour into carboy through plastic funnel. So...unless it's an airborne infection.....I think the funnel or carboy are most likely where something could be hiding. The carboy seems least likely of the two, and the funnel seems unlikely as well. So maybe the campden just isnt doing the job on my water. I'll whip up a small batch next with r/o water and see what happens.

Not all phenolic compounds are chlorophenols. Chlorophenols depend upon exposure to chlorine. Phenolics can come from contamination/infection. You seem to have dealt with the chlorine exposure side of it. Consider a wild yeast infection. Consider a recent experience I had: I had a beer that just would not clear in primary. I fined it with gelatin and it cleared and I bottled. I sampled and tasted a few between three and nine days in the bottle. At nine days it was delicious and nicely carbed. At ten, it was phenolic and distastefully spicy with a plastic aftertaste. I began to open and sample bottles and, sure enough, they were all ruined. After reviewing my notes and looking at my equipment and process, i narrowed it down to a wild yeast infestation in my fermentation chamber. The development of the off flavor in the bottle, along with the overcarbing, are almost a dead giveaway. You have an infection, and if it's phenolic, probably a wild yeast infection. Might have been limited to this batch and then again it might be in your equipment.

I can smell it in the batch in my primary right now. Unless I'm ragingly paranoid and it's just fermentation byproduct poo smell....but it sure smells like plastic to me. I agree on the bottle infection part....but none of the bottling equipment has been used on the batch in the primary right now....except the carboy.

The fact that it GREW in the bottle doesn't mean it wasn't exposed earlier in the process. In my case, the infection occurred while in the fermentor when I was dry hopping, but it didn't progress to perceptible levels until days after bottling. If it's an infection it might have inocculated your wort anytime after the boil. While chilling, racking to fermentor, in fermentor. I noticed a pattern in my case. I was getting the off flavor ONLY in my dry hopped beers, and it was in ALL of my dry hopped beers. That allowed me to narrow down the source. Look at everything post boil.

Another clue in the primary is if the beer just won't clear. Wild yeasts are mostly non-flocculant.

I'll keep an eye on the batch in the primary. It is suppose to be dry hopped...I might just skip that at this point and see how it progresses or digresses. Man...post boil...that's only the yeast (rehydrated in boiled, cooled water; the chiller; the funnel; the carboy. That's it. Could it be the funnel?

Could be anything. Might also be in your environment. If it's growing somewhere and there's an unusually high level of airborne yeast, it could be coming from not being careful enough about keeping the wort covered during or after chilling.

I had this exact same issue about 8 years ago and it was frustrating as hell, plastic taste and was getting gushers even though I knew my FG was in range and priming sugar and mixing was not the problem. That put me down the path of thinking in terms of infection. So, I replaced all my hose lines, bottling wands and such, broke down my kettles (remove valves, sight glass, etc break them down to their individual componants...why 3 piece valves are good) and cleaned (oxy) and sanitized (starsan) the bejesus out of them and everything else in my brewhouse as well as replaced my bottling bucket. The problem went away and has not been back since.

I think replacing my plastic is a good idea. Some of it is old - like 4-5 years old. Not my tubing, but my spigots, bottling bucket, etc. I am starting to wonder more and more about the batch in the primary though. How anal are you guys/gals about covering your wort as it cools. I have the lid on the pot...but it's about half on or so...making room for the chiller, and I open to stir gently, or move my chiller around a bit....then it goes into the carboy. If I'm getting an airborne infection, isn't that really aggressive? This batch started fermenting within 12 hours. Those would have to be some super competitive wild beasts. Oh...and I will stay away from bleach...I will oxy and try switching to star san. I really appreciate all the suggestions. It certainly is helping me think about this more objectively.

As to the airborned stuff, try this: get an extra wide roll of heavy duty aluminum foil. That will allow you to cover anything, anytime without much problem. Wild yeast really are everywhere. As to the ability of a fresh, ample pitch of a pure strain to outcompete an infection, I think too much is made of that. Many different microorganisms coexist in a suitable environment. The wild yeast growth may be slow, initially, but so long as there's food there it'll keep growing until it makes its presence known. Truth be told, all of our beers are "infected" to some extent, we just try to keep it limited and under control as much as possible.

Well, I think I will make a few small extract batches and try to isolate some things until I have a clue about its origin. In my mind, the most logical place to start is the water.