hops and mead

Firstly i would like to thank everyone who had replied to my previous posts. I'm now a proud father 4 x 1 gallon meads and 1 gallon of parsnip wine.

I've been given some hops (goldings, kent hops), i want to make a mead with some hops (i'm an ale fan) any trusted recipes people have tried?

ta muchly

i'm interested to hear if anyone has done this and how it turned out also. hoppy beers are my favorite, but the subtle sexiness of a mead might not be a good match with more commanding flavors of hops, even mellow ones. plus, since you need to age mead for so long, most of the hop flavor would probably go away in that year to year and a half.

Redstone Meadery makes a subtly hopped mead in their nectar series called "Nectar of the Hops". I quite enjoy it.

Isn't a hoppy mead just a braggot/bracket?

huesmann said:

Isn't a hoppy mead just a braggot/bracket?

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No, a braggot is a mead with malt.

I found these on a previous search and had saved them...waiting on some 1.5-2gal jugs to test them out. They don't specify which hops to use, but I'm thinking low-alpha citrusy/fruity hops from the pacific northwest would be best...although I'm also debating using Strisselspalt. I'd love to hear any input (haven't actually done a mead yet, but I'm planning to do both a hop mead and a blueberry melomel).

Ale Mead - T.S.
Makes 1 gallon

1 lb Honey
1 oz Hops
1 oz Citric Acid
1 gal water
nutrients
Brewers Yeast

Boil honey & water and most of hops for 45 minutes, add remainder of hops at about the 40 min. mark.
Strain hops, add citric acid & nutrients.
Let cool overnight.
Add water to 1 gal mark.
Add yeast and let ferment to completion, skimming off yeast daily as for beer.
Allow to settle for a few days after fermentation.
Bottle in 1 qt bottles with 1 tsp suger in bottles.
After 2-3 days in warm area (so that bottle fermentaion occurs) place in cool area and treat as bottled beer.

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Ale Mead - justcoz
Makes 1 gallon

1 lb honey
1 oz hops
0.25 oz citric acid, or juice of 2 small lemons
2 Tbsp yeast nutrient
1 pkt brewers yeast (ale yeast)
1 gal water

Dissolve the honey in 6 pints hot water and bring to the boil.
Add the hops and boil vigorously for about 45 minutes.
A few of the hops should not be added initially, but put in about 5 minutes before the wort reaches the end of the boiling period.
Strain off the hops, add the citric acid and nutrients, allow to cool overnight (covered closely), then bring the volume up to 1 gallon with cold water.
Add the yeast to the cool wort and allow to ferment to completion, skimming off the yeast as you would for a beer.
Allow to settle for a few days after the fermentation ceases, then rack into quart bottles, adding one level teaspoonful of sugar to each bottle.
Seal the bottles, store in a warm place for 2-3 days to ensure that bottle fermentation begins, then move to a cooler location to assist clarification.
Subsequently treat as a bottled beer.
Priming is not essential, and, after fermentation, the ale mead may be matured as a draught beer and drank after a few months.
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This was part of a long series of messages posted by justcoz on the history of mead.
Preceding this message was a discussion of economic factors that caused the decline in popularity of mead and an explanation of how, at one time, most meads (such as those consumed by the Vikings) were of low strength, such as this mead.

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thank for the feed back. I will try the first one "DarkBrood" mentioned in a day or so. Will give you all feed back.

darkbrood, i would highly recommend not boiling your honey. it doesn't really need to be boiled and you end up losing a ton of the honey goodness(flavor and aroma) if you do that. also, one pound of honey per gallon water would make a very weak drink.
3 pounds per gallon create something that is around 10-11%, so knock two thirds of your sugars out of there and you have under 4%.

@frydog - I've noticed that 2.5-3 pounds per gallon seems to be the standard for most mead recipes. Like I said, I haven't tried these yet - the thread for the "justcoz" recipe mentioned it being drinkable like a beer...I guess if it came out beer-strength, that would be pretty weak for a mead.

Would making it stronger drown out the pleasant hop aromatics with the ones from the honey variety? Or would you recommend something to add more body to the weaker-strength recipe?

don't get me wrong here, i have made many beers that were half honey and turned out awesome. specifically a honey steam and a honey blonde. half malt, half honey, both came in around 4.5%.
for what you're talking about, i would double the honey. that way you end up with 7-8%ABV, and should be very drinkable and ready earlier than a full strength mead. you will lose some of the hop goodness as the mead ages, but it should only need a 6 month age, so it should still have plenty of hop flavor/aroma.
again though, i have no clue how the hop flavor will translate into mead, but i am anxious to hear back from anyone that tries it.

ArcaneXor said:

Redstone Meadery makes a subtly hopped mead in their nectar series called "Nectar of the Hops". I quite enjoy it.

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My wife and I just took a tour of Redstone today. My wife bought a Groupon for the tour/tastings. We both liked their Nectar of the Hops enough that we bought a bottle, and I'm going to try to duplicate the recipe with my next batch. We also received a bottle of their 2003 Boysenberry Reserve, which I can't wait to break open.

I apologize in advance for the long post, but I've a lot to add....

mkut said:

I've been given some hops (goldings, kent hops), i want to make a mead with some hops (i'm an ale fan) any trusted recipes people have tried?

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Yes! I can speak with some authority on hop metheglins...I've made several, including the 2 batches that I currently have bottled (see signature). One of these used the exact same hop varieties. I have no idea how much hops you have, what the alpha values are, or what size batch you're making, but I'd recommend using a spread of additions throughout the boil. For some reason, I chose a 45 min boil...this was my hopping schedule:


Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 19.8 45 min.
2.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 21.0 45 min.
1.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 5.6 30 min.
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 6.0 30 min.
1.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 2.9 15 min.
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 3.1 15 min.
1.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 0.0 Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 0.0 Dry Hop

As you can see it takes a $h!tload of hops to do it my way...I was targeting 80 IBU's, and this schedule got me a calculated 79.5.

frydogbrews said:

i'm interested to hear if anyone has done this and how it turned out also. hoppy beers are my favorite, but the subtle sexiness of a mead might not be a good match with more commanding flavors of hops, even mellow ones. plus, since you need to age mead for so long, most of the hop flavor would probably go away in that year to year and a half.

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They turn out awesome, and hops match up with a mead quite well, although I think you are correct that the more subdued hops (EKG, Fuggle, and perhaps some of the continental noble hops) are actually better. I did do a hop metheglin with Cascade, Chinook, and Simcoe, and it's good, but the EKG/Fuggle is just a little smoother, and I think the herbal earthiness of those hops blends better with the honey. I do plan on brewing another batch of this style with a mix of noble hops (probably Saaz and Tettanger) when the 2011 hop harvest comes around

frydogbrews said:

darkbrood, i would highly recommend not boiling your honey. it doesn't really need to be boiled and you end up losing a ton of the honey goodness(flavor and aroma) if you do that. also, one pound of honey per gallon water would make a very weak drink.
3 pounds per gallon create something that is around 10-11%, so knock two thirds of your sugars out of there and you have under 4%.

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Not only is it absolutely fine to boil honey, and it's absolutely necessary for a hop metheglin. Boiled mead will be different that non boiled, but boiling honey doesn't "ruin" honey...it's not the Devil that some make it out to be. I have referenced this website/experiment many times before (preview: most of the tasters actually preferred the boiled mead! when blinded). While the methods used aren't perhaps the "best" from a scientific standpoint, it's a pretty good experiment, and does match my own empirical experience with my metheglins. Now to be fair, I only boiled half of my honey (to improve hop utilization) and added the rest just before flameout.

DarkBrood said:

@frydog - I've noticed that 2.5-3 pounds per gallon seems to be the standard for most mead recipes. Like I said, I haven't tried these yet - the thread for the "justcoz" recipe mentioned it being drinkable like a beer...I guess if it came out beer-strength, that would be pretty weak for a mead.
Would making it stronger drown out the pleasant hop aromatics with the ones from the honey variety? Or would you recommend something to add more body to the weaker-strength recipe?

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You could certainly do this as a "session" mead, but I can tell you that a stronger mead does NOT drown out the hops. I used 18 lbs honey in a 6 gal batch for a target OG of 1.126 As noted before, I target about 80 IBU's

frydogbrews said:

you will lose some of the hop goodness as the mead ages, but it should only need a 6 month age, so it should still have plenty of hop flavor/aroma. again though, i have no clue how the hop flavor will translate into mead, but i am anxious to hear back from anyone that tries it.

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You'd be surprised how well the hop holds up in mead...the hop aroma and flavor doesn't seem to fade quite as much as it does with, say, an aged double IPA...my two hop metheglins are over 2 years old now, and when I broke them out at Mead Day last weekend, they were a hit, and the hops are still really there. My theory is that the even higher ABV might allow some of these compounds to remain undegraded longer? Interestingly, the aging question feeds back to the question of hops overpowering the mead...I think the American hop version is getting better with age.

One last thing...I will mention that you really need some residual sweetness in a hop metheglin, and depending on your technique and yeast, some back sweetening may be necessary. From my experience, I would say that a lightly-semisweet (FG ~ 1.012-1.014) is probably perfect. I don't suppose it's surprising that this is probably the average FG of many ales....

Good luck whatever recipe you end up using! Be sure to post your results!

i read that whole thing(had to refill my glass halfway though), and got all excited. right up to that last part about it needing sweetness. i don't care for sweetness in my meads or wines at all. it's odd really, because i eat a ton of candy.
that's a ton of info though, thanks.
i will still disagree with you about boiling honey, just seems rude to the honey.

frydogbrews said:

i read that whole thing(had to refill my glass halfway though), and got all excited. right up to that last part about it needing sweetness. i don't care for sweetness in my meads or wines at all. it's odd really, because i eat a ton of candy.
that's a ton of info though, thanks.
i will still disagree with you about boiling honey, just seems rude to the honey.

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Don't let "sweetness" fool you...I too like very dry meads as a general rule. All we're talking about is a minimal residual sweetness to balance the bitterness. This will not be perceived as overly sweet, no more than an IPA of the same finishing gravity. Some flavors just don't come across right without that small amount of residual...chocolate mead is the same way.

I don't boil my honey as a routine, but for this mead I think it's important. I can agree to disagree...totally cool...just read that experiment I linked and keep an open mind. One of these days I'm going to repeat Errol's experiment, but there's just too much else I want to be brewing instead!

Please note too: I edited the IBU values in my post...I had pulled up the wrong recipe file...as I mentioned, I only boiled half the honey to improve the hop utilization...with half the honey instead of the full amount, the IBU calculation goes from 58 to 79 for the EKG/Fuggle recipe, and I targeted 80 IBU's, not 60.

@biochemedic - wow...thanks for the data....adjusts the thinking a little bit....

Does anyone else have a similar experience with empirical evidence showing that hop aromas/flavors are better preserved in meads? Hops fade pretty darn fast in beers - a 6-month-old IPA is generally much less tasty....if aging of 6 months or ore is required for these meads, i'd like to be sure that I'm not going to end up with just a bitter mead...

Right i decided to go ahead and make a 1 gallon batch,

I wanted a "strong" drink so used a high alcohol yeast (dessert wine yeast)

ingredients;

High alcohol yeast
3.5 lbs of honey
1.5 oz of Goldings Hops (grown in Kent)
1 tsp Citric Acid
2 tsp yeast Nutrient

I simmered the the hops in the water for 1.5hrs. I then strained the hops off, boiled the water to kill off any bacteria. Added Honey, acid and nutrient. allowed to cool. then added the starter yeast.

Let you know what it tastes like in 3-4 months possible more.

Thanks again for all the feed back.

mkut said:

Right i decided to go ahead and make a 1 gallon batch,

I wanted a "strong" drink so used a high alcohol yeast (dessert wine yeast)

ingredients;

High alcohol yeast
3.5 lbs of honey
1.5 oz of Goldings Hops (grown in Kent)
1 tsp Citric Acid
2 tsp yeast Nutrient

I simmered the the hops in the water for 1.5hrs. I then strained the hops off, boiled the water to kill off any bacteria. Added Honey, acid and nutrient. allowed to cool. then added the starter yeast.

Let you know what it tastes like in 3-4 months possible more.

Thanks again for all the feed back.

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You should get some bittering from this protocol...simmering isn't quite the full rolling boil we use in beer brewing, but you should have gotten some hop isomerization, if not quite as much as if you used a full boil the whole time.

You will, however probably not have much hop aroma and flavor -- these compounds are only extracted by adding late in the boil...you may want to consider dry hopping this for a few weeks after the primary fermentation has completed.

Others may disagree, but I generally only add acid at the end, and only then when it's needed to make the flavor really pop. I didn't need to add acid blend (or tannin) to any of my hop metheglins.

pilot210 said:

My wife and I just took a tour of Redstone today. My wife bought a Groupon for the tour/tastings. We both liked their Nectar of the Hops enough that we bought a bottle, and I'm going to try to duplicate the recipe with my next batch. We also received a bottle of their 2003 Boysenberry Reserve, which I can't wait to break open.

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I have been to redstone and talked with them in good detail and got some great info on the nectar of the hops mead. They told me on their 7bbl system they are dry hopping their regular nectar of the gods mead with 22 lbs of hops. 11 lbs of amarillo and 11 lbs of centennial. I have a mead going right now that I plan on dry hopping it with these exact same hops just scaled back to a 5 gallon batch. I hope that helps everybody out.

And I think a mead with hops added would be a metheglin.

ben the brewman said:

I have been to redstone and talked with them in good detail and got some great info on the nectar of the hops mead. They told me on their 7bbl system they are dry hopping their regular nectar of the gods mead with 22 lbs of hops. 11 lbs of amarillo and 11 lbs of centennial. I have a mead going right now that I plan on dry hopping it with these exact same hops just scaled back to a 5 gallon batch. I hope that helps everybody out.

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Great info! Interesting that they are only using dry hops, and no bittering. While I do dry hop my hop metheglins, I've felt that the bitterness was also an important part of the flavor. However, I've never tried Nectar or made anything this way myself...I may have to search out some...

ben the brewman said:

And I think a mead with hops added would be a metheglin.

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yes

i certainly never add acid right off the bat. for one thing, you don't know if you need it or how much. another thing though, honey is already acidic and making it more so just creates an environment that is slightly rougher for the yeasties to do their thing in. i always adjust my pH when i put it into the secondary and i shoot for a pH of 3.2 or 3.3

I can chime in on the affects of aging hops with meads. I did a Elderflower/Saaz metheglin about 1 1/2 years ago and opened a bottle the other day. The Saaz taste and aroma still came through strong and complemented the Elderflower excellently.

When I did my batch I simmered the Elderflower and added the Saaz after fermenetation as a dry hopping. I let the Saaz sit for quite a long time (4-5 weeks) before racking and allowing to clear.

My recipe:

3lbs Wildflower honey
1/4 oz Elderflower
1 oz Saaz
71B-1122 yeast
Nutrient and energizer per label

Makes a good 1 gallon batch. Im debating making a full 5 gallon batch.

That's my two cents.

2ndGenBrewer said:

I can chime in on the affects of aging hops with meads. ...

... added the Saaz after fermenetation as a dry hopping. I let the Saaz sit for quite a long time (4-5 weeks) before racking and allowing to clear.

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I also add my dry hops for several weeks before racking to clear...perhaps this is part of the secret to getting the persistent hop flavor/aroma in mead...

2ndGenBrewer said:

Im debating making a full 5 gallon batch.

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Do it!

I love this site... I am working on my first batch and used some hops... just hope this sulfur smell goes away... I started a thread on that as well, more details there...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f30/1st-time-mead-maker-w-sulfer-smell-267011/#post3231480

just tried a little sample whilst racking, it tastes pretty good so far. going to make some more soon.

I'm itching to make my first mead and I just spent two days searching for this info so thanks guys. The question I have is what type of bottles are going to be best for bottling the bragawd (hop mead) in. In the recipes featured here it says to bottle in 'Quart bottles'. Should I use plastic or will glass be OK and is quart (litre) the best size? Cheers!

always go with glass when you are dealing with something that has to age. oxygen passes through the plastic (in very small amounts) and when you age it for even 6 months, not mention a year or three, those small amounts add up and wreck a beverage.

as for size of bottles, whatever size you think you will readily open and finish before it gets oxidized. i usually do 750 ml bottles or 1 liter swing tops. other than that it is just presentation. i won't bottle in 12 oz beer bottles because i just don't like the look of mead in beer bottles. the mead, however, doesn't give a damn.

I noticed on this page http://www.medievalcookery.com/helewyse/meadhops3.html mentions the author created 'bottle bombs' when using 1 pint swing top bottles, using the 1 teaspoon of sugar carbonation recipe. Is exploding bottles common and can it be avoided?

planet9 said:

I'm itching to make my first mead and I just spent two days searching for this info so thanks guys. The question I have is what type of bottles are going to be best for bottling the bragawd (hop mead) in. In the recipes featured here it says to bottle in 'Quart bottles'. Should I use plastic or will glass be OK and is quart (litre) the best size? Cheers!

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Fully agree with frydogbrews on both of his points...I always use glass for mead, even for fermentation, since it's generally a longer process, and I don't want to deal with the oxygen permeability issue.

In terms of bottle size, your batch size may dictate some of this...when I was (very early on) doing 1 gal batches, I always bottled in 12 oz bottles, but now I generally use 750 ml wine bottles (5-6 gallon batches).

You may also want to consider how you drink...if you and yours are the sort to open up a wine bottle and kill it in one shot, then go that route. If you're the only one drinking it, 12 oz bottles may be better....

Something very specific for the hop meads though...I do believe you should bottle in BROWN bottles...with the presence of hops, I would be concerned about skunking (light-struck) off flavors. If you can't find brown wine style bottles, I'd bottle in regular crown cap bottles of whatever size you have conveniently available.

you could also use indigo blue bottles, they are widely available, although slightly pricy, but they keep out as much light as brown, maybe more (that's a debate for another thread though.)

as for the bottle bombs, just let it ferment out all the way, take multiple hydrometer readings on different days to make sure it is done (or at .990) then don't add more than the usual priming sugar if you plan on carbing it up. (3/4 cup to five gallons is the norm)
swing top bottles are actually closer to champange bottles and can be carbed higher than regular beer bottles, so to get those babies to blow, somebody messed up big! and with a mead, that was probably bottling before it was done fermenting.

planet9 said:

I noticed on this page http://www.medievalcookery.com/helewyse/meadhops3.html mentions the author created 'bottle bombs' when using 1 pint swing top bottles, using the 1 teaspoon of sugar carbonation recipe. Is exploding bottles common and can it be avoided?

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Looking at the link you posted, it looks like the brewer used 1 cup of honey to prime a little over 3 gal of brew...clearly this was a bit too much (unless fermentation wasn't complete, as frydogbrews suggested). Regardless, the most reliable way to prime for bottle conditioning is to use *weight* (not volume) of a known sugar added to a known volume of brew at a known temperature. Check out this calculator at Tasty Brew...
Priming with honey or other similar sugar sources (maple syrup, etc.) can be problematic, as the actual sugar content of honey can vary from source to source and year to year.

i saw that too, i just don't see a cup of honey to three gallons of mead blowing up swingtops. i use these bottles all the time, especially for sparkly cyser, and they can handle a heckuva lot of pressure.

i agree weight is the only way to go, not volume. i said 3/4 of a cup because i force carb all my beer and i don't remember what that should weigh! i use 6-7 ounces to prime cyser and cider, but that is a higher rate than normal and you must use champagne bottles or swingtops to hold that much pressure (or a keg)

I dont like to boil my honey but I also make quite a few hopped meads. I boil my water with the hops bills and then add my honey after it has cooled. Basically making a Hops Tea without tea leaves.

JFK said:

I dont like to boil my honey but I also make quite a few hopped meads. I boil my water with the hops bills and then add my honey after it has cooled. Basically making a Hops Tea without tea leaves.

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I find this very intriguing...I had often wondered if this technique would work...for some reason, I wasn't sure. From what I have read about hop utilization, I seemed to have an impression that some gravity level was necessary to extract bitterness, but also there is an inverse relationship between hop utilization and the gravity; ie, higher gravities decrease hop utilization. I'm not sure how linear this effect is, or whether it bottoms out at some point, but theoretically, you would get the best extraction of iso-alpha acids with plain water.

I actually split the difference with my hop metheglin technique -- I boil half the honey with the hops, and then add the rest once I cool it down to about 100*F

Out of curiosity, what does the "hop tea" look and taste like before you add the honey?

bitter hoppy flavorful water. Hops extraction has nothing to do with gravity and everything to do with tempeture and time at said tempeture. I got this idea from a proffessional brewmaster friend of mine when I was talking to him about wanting to extract more bitter into my mead without heating my honey. It is sound and does work very well You extract Alpha Acids and convert them the longer you soak hops at a near boiling temp. 60 minutes max bitter extraction. 30 minutes you get bitter and some aroma. 20 minute less bitters more aroma etc etc.

JFK said:

bitter hoppy flavorful water. Hops extraction has nothing to do with gravity and everything to do with tempeture and time at said tempeture. I got this idea from a proffessional brewmaster friend of mine when I was talking to him about wanting to extract more bitter into my mead without heating my honey. It is sound and does work very well You extract Alpha Acids and convert them the longer you soak hops at a near boiling temp. 60 minutes max bitter extraction. 30 minutes you get bitter and some aroma. 20 minute less bitters more aroma etc etc.

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Very interesting...I may have to play around with this idea...I have a NZ hops (Motueka, Nelson Sauvin, and Pacific Jade) metheglin planned...

I am waiting on a batch that I started a month ago, but probably won't touch it for four more months. I did change the recipe some, cause I really wanted a higher ABV and was afraid to boil the honey that long. I used 12# of honey and Nottingham yeast as I didn't have any bread yeast and the LHBS didn't have coopers. I also used cascade hops, and yes the whole 1/2# of hops and only boiled for 25 minutes. It had a great aroma at first almost like a sweet tea. The batch cleared really well within the first month. I am able to read through the carboy. I may have issues as the fermentation temps were high for a day or so, it was 92 degrees and I didn't turn the AC on. I also need to learn when it is fully degassed, as it is my first mead and the bubbles won't go away when I stir it. I had stirred it for over a hour and a half, probably more but those are the times that I had written in my beer recipe book. Here is the recipe, hopefully it may help someone.

The bubbles are the yeast at work. I have a batch right now that the yeast is going nuts in still after a solid week. It just means there is plenty of nutrition, good temps, and a high enough PH for them to basically be at the amusement park with a 1/2 pound of hops at 25 minutes you will get a lot of flavor out of it and aroma for sure. If you were aiming to pull alot of bittering out of it you will definaly get a good deal because you used a half pound. You can definatly get the same results from WAY less hops with a longer boil. Id suggest using the hop tea method to do this so your not structurally changing the honey at all. Let us know how it is when you get it done. When i first heard you were using a half pound of hops i was like OMG thats going to be undrinkable but then i read you only used it at a 25 minute boil. For more information on hops i would suggest looking into a book on brewing beer they get into a lot of detail on what your pulling out of the hops at certain tempetures for certain durations of time. There is definatly a lot of science behind hops extraction. I would also recommend putting a towel around your fermentor yeast is sorta vampiric in that it doesnt like light very much.

I was thinking I was crazy at the 1/2#. But I remembered something about the way people originally hopped IPAs. Something about coming over on a boat and how flavor lasts for months and then it fades in flavor. I planned on at least 5 months, I figured the flavor would change dramatically.

That was the first picture, it is in a water bath held at about 65. With a towel around it, that I dampen daily. I'll let you know how it turns out, right now I think the hops are not as strong as it sounds and it is drinkable. Its not as mellow as I am looking for, hopefully time will heal all.

hops has a tendancy to mellow out with time. the higher abv in mead makes it hold up longer though than it does in a beer. Think of extracts for an example they last for long durations based on the content of alcohol being used to preserve them. What type of hops did you use? Im sure you posted it above but I am being lazy today.