Classic American Pilsner

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Jon_TWR

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Tis is my second attempt at a CAP...pretty much everything possible went wrong with the first one, which I don't want to talk about ;) . Anyway, here's the recipe I brewed today:

5.5 gallon batch (post boil size), est 75% efficiency
7 lbs. American 2-row
3 lbs. Cracked Corn

1 oz. Whole Leaf Cluster hops (8.4% AA), First Wort Hopped
1/2 oz Hallertau Pellet hops (6.4% AA) @ 20"
1/2 oz Hallertau Pellet hops (6.4% AA) @7"

I did a cereal mash with the cracked corn and 1 lb. of 2-row. I slowly heated it to a boil, then boiled for 45 minutes. While it was going, I doughed in the other 6 lbs. 2-row at 140*...or at least that was my goal. It was actually more like 137*. I added the cereal mash to it, bringing it up to 160* (target was 158*) for 40".

Pitched a 3 L starter of harvested Fermentis Saflager W-34/70 (from when it was actually still cheaper than the liquid strain) @ 55*, and have it sitting in a wine chiller set to 50*)

So far, so good. OG was 1.052, IBUs should be around 34 (tinseth).

Feel free to give any comments or ask any questions.
 
More aroma hops would be nice. 6-row has the correct flavor. I would not FWH clusters. Even back in the day if they had the noble hops they certainly would want to showcase them in the flavor and aroma.

What was that corn? The best corn really helps make this beer. The bast I've used is organic Polenta.

As for the mash you will find out by your FG. If it ends at 1.010-1.015 it worked out well.
 
I think that the hopping is probably not that inauthentic, though I would prefer heavier late hopping.

6 row is more authentic but I think 2-row or even a 2-row pils blend makes a better beer.

Absolutely agree with malticulous on the corn. Bob's Red Mill grits make a much better beer than flaked maize at the LHBS, for example. I think if it was reasonably fresh and meant for human consumption you are probably okay.

FWIW, I also find steel cut oats superior to flaked oats both for eating and beer.
 
That's pretty close to the CAP I brewed about a month back after reading all the Fix and Renner articles I could get my hands on, as well as reading on here pretty diligently.

9 lbs 6 row
3 lbs flaked corn

28.3 g Sterling(7.5% AA) FWH
23 g Cluster(7% AA) @ 60 min
14 g Sterling(7.5% AA) @ 15 min


2 packets Saflager W34/70, pitched the following day at about 55, fermented at about 52 for 3 weeks, then racked into secondary, and being lagered until early July at just above freezing. Started 1.060, ended 1.011 before racking.
 
I may still dry hop with some more hallertau or even some styrian goldings...I haven't really decided. Idecided to go with FWHing the cluster because I did an all cluster cream ale a while back and loved it.

6-row would've been more authentic, but I have about a sack and a half of 2-row, so that's what I used. :D

Oh, and I used a gallon of distilled + 2 quarts tap water in the cereal mash, tap water in the main mash and a 50/50 blend of tap and distilled for the sparge (single batch sparge, 10" @ 168*).

I ended up with almost exactly 5 gallons of wort after leaving behind hop debris and break material, and the fermentor was at 52* when I checked in on it this morning. So far, so good!
 
I'm really liking this one,
http://hopville.com/recipe/466464/classic-american-pilsner-recipes/polenta-cap

It's been lagering a few months and it's about gone. I compared with Urquell and the hops come through better (I've never had a fresh Pilsner Urquell.) It has both higher hop aroma and flavor. Biterness is stronger too, possibly because of the hop stand. It has a bit of a similar maltiness near the finish. I think the long cereal mash and decotion mashout come through. It's a bit more gold in color too. Wy2035 really is a nice yeast. It has character that goes well in the beer. Both my fermenters blew off fermenting this batch.

I've been making pilsners all winter. I'm going to try too keep some on tap all summer too. Even these stronger ones only seem to need 4-6 weeks lagering (my CAP before the current one was 1.068.) I have a few sacks of continental pils ordered so I'm going to be making some more German Pils next.
 
I'm really liking this one,
http://hopville.com/recipe/466464/classic-american-pilsner-recipes/polenta-cap

It's been lagering a few months and it's about gone. I compared with Urquell and the hops come through better (I've never had a fresh Pilsner Urquell.) It has both higher hop aroma and flavor.

Having had fresh Bohemian Pilsners, especially PU, while in Prague, the funny thing is that they're not really hop-forward beers like say, an IPA. The thing that stood out to me was just how well balanced they are when fresh- the malt stands out more (or the hops stand out less) when it's fresh. Hop aroma isn't really there, and the bitterness is just right for the maltiness.
 
If you haven't already, go ready Jeff Renner's article on CAP. He's credited (deserved) with revitalizing the style:

http://brewery.org/library/ClassAmPils.html

Hmmm. After reading that... I used the wrong brew schedule then. I went with a 90 minute 148F mash. Gonna be thin no doubt. But my OG was closer to 1.060, so maybe I'll be OK. We'll see.
 
Now I have my score sheets for my last CAP I really think a cereal mash is important to this beer. The judges mention pilsner malt and there is no pilsner in there, just 6-row and grits. It's the second place lager in the west. The decoction mash out could have helped too but I really think a cereal mash brings out more form adjuncts than you can get from flakes.

My next CAP I'll use true noble late hops and slightly softer water. My last one was with straight tap water. I think that will mellow it out a bit without changing it very much. But then my last one was 7.1%. I got much better extract from the CMC 6-row than I have with Rahr.

Bob's and Your Father's Mustache seem more like post-prohibition pilsners. Prohibition may have killed US beer but the world is following. Bud light is bad enough but now even German beers are getting lighter. I think a pre-prohibition pilsner needs to have a good hop punch that makes a statement.
 
I'm going to revive this pseudo-necro thread by sharing my recent CAP batch. I'm a fan of the "new" 1960's formula Schlitz that was recently reintroduced to keep up with the resurgence of classic American beers. My "research" lead me to brewing Your Father's Mustache. Here's what I did:

8 lbs American 6-Row Pale Malt
2 lbs American Flaked Corn

122 degree Protein rest for 30 min
140 degree Alpha rest for 15 min
158 degree Beta rest for 30 min
168 degree dunk sparge for 10 min


I brewed this in a bag which allowed for the dunk sparge. I normally do full volume mashes with all required water added to the mash, but I did infusion steps with this batch in a separate mash tun which allowed me to dunk sparge this batch to get final volume.

I boiled for 90 minutes with the following hop additions:

1 oz Cluster (6.8% AA) for 60 min
0.5 oz US Fuggle (4.8% AA) for 15 min
0.5 oz US Fuggle (4.8% AA) for 5 min


Chilled with an immersion chiller to 55 degree pitching temperature.

I ended up with 6.5 gallons of 1.048 wort at the end of the 90 minute boil. I should have ended up with 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort based on my previous batches so I'm not sure why my eKeggle had a lower boil off rate with this batch. In any case, I ended up with an 85% conversion efficiency with the dunk sparge instead of the 75% that I typically achieve with my full volume mashes. This reduced the theoretical bitterness contributions of the hops from 30 IBU to 27 IBU. I'm still within style guidelines, but not as bitter as I was shooting for.

Pitched a 2 liter starter of W2007 and am fermenting at 50 degrees currently. I guess we'll all know how this turns out in about 9 weeks or so. I am going to brew up a Dunkel next week and the CAP can D-rest while the Dunkel is fermenting. They'll both go into my ferm chamber and lock it up for the next 6-8 weeks after that while they lager. I'm going to have to do an ambient temperature ale or two while these two are getting good to keep the supply line full.
 
I'm going to revive this pseudo-necro thread by sharing my recent CAP batch. I'm a fan of the "new" 1960's formula Schlitz that was recently reintroduced to keep up with the resurgence of classic American beers. My "research" lead me to brewing Your Father's Mustache. Here's what I did:

80% American 6-Row Pale Malt
20% American Flaked Corn

122 degree Protein rest for 30 min
140 degree Alpha rest for 15 min
158 degree Beta rest for 30 min
168 degree dunk sparge for 10 min


I brewed this in a bag which allowed for the dunk sparge. I normally do full volume mashes with all required water added to the mash, but I did infusion steps with this batch in a separate mash tun which allowed me to dunk sparge this batch to get final volume.

I boiled for 90 minutes with the following hop additions:

1 oz Cluster (6.8% AA) for 60 min
0.5 oz US Fuggle (4.8% AA) for 15 min
0.5 oz US Fuggle (4.8% AA) for 5 min


Chilled with an immersion chiller to 55 degree pitching temperature.

I ended up with 6.5 gallons of 1.048 wort at the end of the 90 minute boil. I should have ended up with 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort based on my previous batches so I'm not sure why my eKeggle had a lower boil off rate with this batch. In any case, I ended up with an 85% conversion efficiency with the dunk sparge instead of the 75% that I typically achieve with my full volume mashes. This reduced the theoretical bitterness contributions of the hops from 30 IBU to 27 IBU. I'm still within style guidelines, but not as bitter as I was shooting for.

Pitched a 2 liter starter of W2007 and am fermenting at 50 degrees currently. I guess we'll all know how this turns out in about 9 weeks or so. I am going to brew up a Dunkel next week and the CAP can D-rest while the Dunkel is fermenting. They'll both go into my ferm chamber and lock it up for the next 6-8 weeks after that while they lager. I'm going to have to do an ambient temperature ale or two while these two are getting good to keep the supply line full.
Hey, I never mind when someone revives an old thread, especially if it's something relevant.

I liked how this one turned out, though like many others have mentioned, I also prefer heavier late hops in my CAPs (and most beers, frankly ;) ).

I should think about doing another CAP in the not too distant future so I can have it ready for the dog days of summer...if this winter was any indication, it's going to be a scorcher!
 
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