Sanctification suggestions?

So I finally hit up Russian River for the first time and had a sampler. Excellent beers, but my favorite was Sanctification. It's a 100% Brett version of Redemption (or so says the bartender). I'd love to make something similar; can anyone recommend where to start?

Redemption recipe, straight from Vinnie:

91 percent 2 row
3 percent acidulaed
3 percent wheat malt
3 prcent vienna malt

Bittered with Styrian Golding
Finished with Stering

OG 1.052
TG 1.012

Abbey ale yeast white labs

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To make Sanctification, you'd pitch Brett L and Brett B. Oxygenating the wort will make the beer more sour. Good luck! I want to try making this beer myself!

Are pitching volumes for Brett similar to Sacc? I assume that I'd make a starter the normal way.

And are those strains WYeast or White Labs?

I assume stuff like fermentation times and temps will be addressed elsewhere in the Wild Brewing section, so I won't ask about that here.

Are there any easy-to-overlook gotchas? I know I need to be careful not to mix up my lines (or cross them) when I keg this.

You really need to build brett to lager like cell counts. The only real gotcha, is when you get your tube of brett, you will see there is significantly less product than in a sacch tube. You need to build it up quite a bit prior to pitching. For my all brett beers I usually start with a weak 1030 starter of like 150mL. Then step to 2L, then to a fresh 2L on a stir plate. Some may say you may even want to add a step inbetween the 150mL and 2L, but I seem to find it is not required. For the most part, ferment temps are about the same as sacch ferments, but higher tems will bring out more pronounced character. I have gone rather high to have the brett finish off a 1100 beer stuck at 1030 down to the teens, and it seems to be fairly well rounded.

Only other thing of note, a beer fermented with brett only, will differ from a beer fermented clean-then dosed with brett. It seems you are tying to get similar results as a 100% brett beer so this is not really material to your goal. Also, the flavor will continue to develop in the keg/bottle over time. I seem to find it begins o level off around 5-6 months at cellar temps.

Sanctification is 100% Brett in the sense that there is no Saccharomyces, but it also contains lacto as well as his house culture of Pedio and other strains of Brett. http://www.russianriverbrewing.com/pages/bottle/sanctification.html

I had some of the “sick” batch 4 and it certainly wasn’t as sour as previous ones, but the fact that it is getting sick suggests that there is still Pedio in there.

I have a BYO clone of the beer at home, I believe the recipe is similar to Redemption, but the OG is a bit higher and the ratio of malts was slightly different. I’ll try to remember to post it when I get home tonight.

Good advice from the other guys already on starters etc...

i didnt know about the pedio, good too know for next time i get the sour bug.
lol
I think im funny.

No but really i found a supplier for 15.5 gallon barrels and this is sounding like a good use for one after a batch of Russian imperial gets oaked.

Oldsock said:

Sanctification is 100% Brett in the sense that there is no Saccharomyces, but it also contains lacto as well as his house culture of Pedio and other strains of Brett. http://www.russianriverbrewing.com/pages/bottle/sanctification.html

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So it needs some lacto as well? Does that get pitched early, or should I sour a portion of the wort and then add it back?

Also, someone mentioned that more oxygenation = more sourness. Is this a linear relationship? Any guidelines on how much oxygen gives a level of sourness?

Also, apologies for not doing a forum search before posting this; the beer had me excited enough that I posted from the bar at Russian River.

I've had the best luck pitching the lactic acid bacteria up front with the primary yeast.

I’ve never gotten much sourness from 100% Brett beers (although I haven't used B or L in primary, just A and C), it is really the lactic acid bacteria that do that. Lacto and Pedio are actually better at producing lactic acid without oxygen present, so I’m not sure I agree with the previous poster.

Oldsock,

I think I remember an article on your site for getting started with sour beers, but I can't seem to find that. Would you happen to have a link?

Of course: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html

One of the links on the top line of the site is for "Posts of Note" which contains links to these bigger posts that I put more time/effort into and tend to revisit to update.

Thanks for that link; it's a good read.

How about ferment time? Is this going to be a beer that develops over years, or is that a characteristic of beers that are Sacc+Brett?

Also, I don't want to clone Sanctification; just get like it. Anyone have an idea of what might change if I drop Lacto or Brett L/Brett B (pitching one strain of Brett)?

Oldsock; that was exactly the article I was thinking of. It's a fantastic write-up and I'm sure I'll refer to it a lot.

Oldsock said:

I've had the best luck pitching the lactic acid bacteria up front with the primary yeast.

I’ve never gotten much sourness from 100% Brett beers (although I haven't used B or L in primary, just A and C), it is really the lactic acid bacteria that do that. Lacto and Pedio are actually better at producing lactic acid without oxygen present, so I’m not sure I agree with the previous poster.

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I didn't realize they used pedio when I suggested oxygenating the wort. I know Al B has reported high levels of sourness from oxygenated Brett C and moderate levels from Brett L, but I haven't tried it yet myself.

dwarven_stout said:

I didn't realize they used pedio when I suggested oxygenating the wort. I know Al B has reported high levels of sourness from oxygenated Brett C and moderate levels from Brett L, but I haven't tried it yet myself.

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Brett C seems very finicky, I used the White Labs version as a primary twice. Once with oxygen, once without, neither gave me any sourness (or the pineapple character some people get). It might have to do with pitching rates or nutrients, or something else. Over on the BBB, rumor was that it now has lacto in with the Brett although I don't think I heard it confirmed.

I have a culture of Brett B going, so I'm going to have some fun with that, I'd like to get Brett L as well to have on hand.

I think Chad confirmed that the WL Brett C had lacto, but the Wy was a pure strain.

I've gotten big pineapple/passionfruit from what I believe is Brett C with low aeration. I got it from culturing up Smokestack Saison Brett. I have a couple bottles of Avery 15 stashed that I'm planning to step up to get that lovely lemony Brett B mutant out of... thinking Belgian single grist for that one.