Aging beer: Facts, myths, and discussion

Seems to me that most of the "give it time" posts are for people who are brewing their first batch and are worried something is wrong and want to "fix" it by racking to another carboy, or bottling, or repitching yeast...in the majority of these cases I think that its a good idea to leave well enough alone.
For people who are relative newcomers(including me) I think that your first inclination should be to "give it another week in the carboy", while people that have been brewing long enough to recognize signs that fermentation is absolutely done and it tastes right can go right on to kegging and force carbonating. Maybe as someone new to kegging you SHOULD just let it carbonate at serving pressure rather than overcarbonate your beer. After a batch or two you can turn it up to 30 and shake away.
In a nutshell, I guess what I'm saying is if you know what you are doing, then 2 weeks is great. You know the beer is done and you know its properly carbonated. For that guy who is on his first or second batch, he should force himself to leave the stuff in that carboy for an extra week and stop worrying cause the airlock stopped blowing after 3 days.

homebrewer_99 said:

I kegged a SMaSH Pale Ale with Fuggles that completely sucked for the first 3-5 months. At month 5 it was better, but not great.

Now that it's in month 7 it is really very good.

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The the sake of discussion, any reason why your SMaSH Pale Ale took 5-7 months to get good?

Seems to me this goes against Yuri idea of a quick turn around beer and I would have figured a Pale ale would have been a good style to brew and drink relatively quickly.

I think a lot has to do with how well balanced a recipe is and how well, um... executed it is.

Very informative thread for this Noobie. Kegging and forced carbing may or may not be in my brewing future. But Learning to make good starters and better temp. control are on the list for sure.

Great thread!

Great thread Yuri - lots of interesting food for thought, and a very practical and well-made case for getting great beer without waiting months.

The only thing I'd want to flag up is that whilst good quick beer is possible, I'm sure a lot of us have experienced beer that - whilst perfectly good at one month - got even better after longer conditioning. I really like the techniques in this thread on how to make good "quick beer", though as a small-scale home-brewer, I also like having the luxury of being able to let beer sit for weeks or months if need be. That's a luxury we have that microbreweries really don't have. They have to sell their beer to survive, and the faster microbreweries can turn over beer, the more they can sell. It'd be madness for them to block up their fermenters for six months just to age a big beer, when in that time they could make twelve times as much quick beer.

Also, I worry we might be getting a bit carried away by high-speed brewing:

Beerbeque said:

I am able to go from grain to glass in as little as 19 days. And I bottle! I don't understand why some guys can't get their ales to carbonate in well under 14 days in the bottle.

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I'm sure we've all seen a load of posts where newer brewers open their beer too soon, and then wonder why it tastes like ass. For fear that this thread might start an epidemic of such posts, I'd be really reluctant to suggest that bottle carbing can get done in well under 14 days. I'm sure it may be possible under some circumstances - but unless you're up against a deadline, the best advice on bottle conditioning is 21 days at 70F.

I've found that fruit beers tend to take awhile to condition also. I've made cherry beers from both fresh fruits and fruit extracts and noticed a considerable difference after 2 months than before that (that's with bottle conditioning, though). Guess it goes along with one of those flavors that have to develop with time.

A lot of sense talked there Yuri.

I thought it was interesting that you saw quite a difference in your beers (for the better) after moving to texas which you say has harder water (likely to have higher Calcium levels).

I've had problems with the clearing of hazes (protein and yeast) turned out after some analysis that I had v. soft water and therfore not enough calcium to get A) an efficent protein coagulation in the boil and B) sufficent quantities to help in the flocculation of the yeast post ferment.

Just another thing to consider for those that may be having clearing issues with your beer, look into your water, you might need to supplement with some Calcium Salts (as a rule of thumb use Ca sulphate to accentuate hoppyness, and Ca Cl for maltyness or a ratio of 1:1 of both to keep it neutral).

yeoldebrewer said:

Very informative thread for this Noobie. Kegging and forced carbing may or may not be in my brewing future. But Learning to make good starters and better temp. control are on the list for sure.

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You'll be amazed at how good your beer gets if you do everything Yuri has on his list. My process has been pretty much the same for the last 6 batches or so, and now I can't wait to tap those kegs...

The last 2 beers I brewed were both being served on tap in under 4 weeks.
It wasnt until about 5 weeks though that they were perfectly clear, but taste wise they were fine at 4...

speed brewing, but what about the other end. What about the 7 month old beer. Would you leave it in your secondary for 7 months, keg it and leave it as a still solution, or keg it and bring it up to the proper carbonation level, and then stick it somewhere for all that time?

I would think 7 months in the primary would leave some taste behind from the cake on the bottom.

I go ahead and keg it, so that I can just seal it up and forget about it. It's easier to store that way, and it's also easier to move.


TL

I made a kick-ass, rye IPA that was totally delicious from grain to glass in 4 weeks, and that's with bottling. I always leave my beer 3 weeks in primary, and this one just carbed up super fast in the bottle, 1 week. Nice 2" white head, perfectly carbonated. This was my first beer pitching an actively fermenting, appropriately sized starter.

Pitching the appropriate amount of healthy yeast CANNOT be stressed enough. The first couple beers I made without active starters needed the time to chill out the weird, "homebrew" flavors. Now all my beers are delicious within a month, give or take a week or two for carbing. Even a high gravity porter (1.072) with a lot of dark malts was amazing at two weeks after bottling.

I guess, lots of yeast, keep your temps down=good beer faster

Interesting post. It is nice to hear so many experienced brewers clear up this aging myth. Let me just defend many noobs, myself included, on the issue of using secondaries versus this proposed speedy brew process. Many of us have limited equipment and space. For me, secondaries are essential. I've been brewing quite a bit lately and need the secondaries for time. I have two carboys and a bottling bucket. I use a bottling bucket as my primary. So secondaries allow me to have two different brews going at once, rather than wait out the fermentation process one beer at a time. This gives me enough time to produce more empty bottles while they sit in the carboys and in the end results in a faster process not necessarily from grain to glass but for the amount of beers and different styles of beers over a given period of time.

True. I think the most important lesson of this thread (for n00bs and experienced brewers alike) is that improvements in your process can result in good beer sooner. I have experienced this first hand, and my process has been consistent, and so have the beers.

A 'quick beer' is still relative to your situation. When you are used to big complex beers that take time, 3 weeks is not long at all. For a new guy, 3 weeks in the fermenter is an eternity. When you are down to your last 6 pack, its an eternity. Then to wait 2 more weeks after bottling, AARGH.

Fat Guy Brewing said:

Then to wait 3 more weeks after bottling, AARGH.

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Fixed that for ya.


TL

Do I really need a gallon of yeast? I have just been using just the WYeast activator packs of liquid yeast, and only experienced attenuation problems on my beers higher than 1.060. I have looked at the yeast starter kits that include either a 1 or 2 liter flask with a small package of DME. Is the 1 liter flask even worth considering? I'm curious about how much of a yeast starter is "enough"...

I think balance is the key to aging. Hops drop out a bit and you have to hit your mark in the long hall. However, some beers aren't meant to be aged and they suck but after a couple of months they come back around. Calculating the rate of aging and making a beer balance in say 1 year is hard to do. Props to anyone who has that figured out.

HuntingdonBrewing said:

Do I really need a gallon of yeast? I have just been using just the WYeast activator packs of liquid yeast, and only experienced attenuation problems on my beers higher than 1.060. I have looked at the yeast starter kits that include either a 1 or 2 liter flask with a small package of DME. Is the 1 liter flask even worth considering? I'm curious about how much of a yeast starter is "enough"...

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The most I've ever done for any beer is a 2L starter, and I've had no problems. Keep in mind, that's not 2L of yeast. The whole starter is 2L. I just wind up with a bit of yeast at the bottom and end up decanting much of the liquor.

Yes, the 1L flask is enough, but the 2L gives you more room for larger starters or just to avoid messes.


TL

how did i miss this thread!??

a few notes from my experience:

1 - my friend has made several <30 day lagers and they all came out fantastic

2 - i have many lighter abv recipes (mainly breakfast stouts and hefeweizens) that can easily go from grain to glass in 5 days

3 - i age belgians in the primary for months sometimes, then months in secondary and bottles as well

4 - filtered beer can get finished faster.

5 - MOST beers will improve with an extra few weeks in the primary. even some of my lighter beers (such as a recent cream ale) were very clean, clear and smooth due to increased flocculation and conditioning.

6 - conditioning occurs no matter where your beer is. whether it's in primary (best IMO), secondary or keg...as long as there is live yeast, they will clean it up. extended chilling allows things to settle, as well. the lazy approach (primary until you get around to it and then straight to keg and force carbonate) is very effective. 3 days later, the beer will be even better.

7 - +1000 on keeping the recipes simple and light for a quick turnaround. SMaSH beers give some of the most complex flavors and they are simple, cheap and easy.

one of my next experiments is a 6-day steam beer. transfer to keg (bright tank) while fermenting, naturally carbonate, filter to a second keg and drink.

HuntingdonBrewing said:

Do I really need a gallon of yeast? I have just been using just the WYeast activator packs of liquid yeast, and only experienced attenuation problems on my beers higher than 1.060. I have looked at the yeast starter kits that include either a 1 or 2 liter flask with a small package of DME. Is the 1 liter flask even worth considering? I'm curious about how much of a yeast starter is "enough"...

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I have both a 1L and 2L flask and use 1oz DME for each 250ml. I choose which one to use based on what Jamil's pitching calculator recommends. To make a 3L starter I would create a 1L starter in the 2L flask, refrigerate, decant, and add 2L of fresh wort.

Very nice post! I ESPECIALLY agree about pitching a lot of yeast. I think it's the number one "new to brewing" mistake (I know it was for me). I would have a very hard time getting beers to fully attenuate. My LHBS owner at the time told me "not to worry about" starters. Ever since I've made them, my beers have been tasting much better and fully attenuating. The possible off-flavors from overpitching are no big deal compared to the nasty ones from under pitching.

I also like to make BIG beers and you can even turn some of them around pretty fast. I made a OG 1.110 strong scotch ale (WITH peak smoked malt, to boot) and it was very drinkable after only 5 weeks. After conditioning for months it tasted a LITTLE bit smoother, but nothing drastic. I made a split batch of 1.085 dopplebock, lagered one for two months and one for SEVEN months, they tasted about the same.

The only beers that (for me) have gotten significantly better with age are higher gravity Belgian ales.

Seems I can get most beers to bottle in 21 to 28 days, but then I have to wait for the bottles to carb. Some seem to take longer though like this Belgian ale has been in primary two weeks and I'm about to transfer. It's clearing up some but there's still a LOT of suspended yeast in there.

Yuri_Rage said:

Proof (you'll have to take me at my word for now): I've got a STOUT on tap that was brewed exactly two weeks ago. It's clear, clean, and tasty. Friends came over yesterday and claimed that it's one of the best stouts they've ever had. My buddy's wife said, "I usually dislike dark beer like this, but yours is fantastic!"

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Where can I find this stout recipe?

It's in my recipe dropdown (under my username).

I agree with most of what has been said, and certainly since I have been using starters, my batches have been finishing better. I have had good, quick turnaround with stouts and hefes, but I would like to share an experience I had with Ed Wort's Pale Ale. I made a batch for my son's engagement party, with 5 weeks from brewing to party (I bottle). I got rave reviews from everyone, including some other homebrewers. Most of the batch was polished off, but I had save out a few for myself, and when I tried it a month or two later, it had matured to a really excellent batch.

It certainly was good in a short time, but now i wish I had saved more for me. Time to brew again.

excellent thread.


BTTT for the guys too lazy to goto page 2 or 3....



and, can someone post a link to ed's pale recipe if handy.

Great Thread!!!!

I will have to put my money on big yeast starter and temp control..

Most of my beers are 1.045 to 1.055, but they are complex. I understand complex brain bills will require more aging but I believe the yeast has a bigger impact. The water was very interesting, I gues I am lucky in Chicago..we possibly have the best water in the world for drinking(not for brewing)..but it tuwns out to be great for brewing as well. As for yeast I will pitch 1 to 2 packets of S-05 for any clena ale and this stuff rocks out a nice clean fermentation and is done in 3 days..1 week to 10 days more than crash cool and keg. I bring my wort down to 75-70 for all beers and pitch big and keep at ambient room temp of 65.

I think yeast strain should be discussed because some will clean up much better than others and some need very little cleaning at all(S-05). This will speed up aging a bunch.

J

I wonder what in the world Budweiser does to their beer that peaks it's taste at 28 days, then starts to slide downhill after that. You guys remember the advertising pitch they have where they send out day old beer to bars so you can taste the freshness?

MN_Jay said:

I wonder what in the world Budweiser does to their beer that peaks it's taste at 28 days, then starts to slide downhill after that. You guys remember the advertising pitch they have where they send out day old beer to bars so you can taste the freshness?

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They brew a beer that has so few IBUs that it barely breaks the human taste threshold, and they filter out all the yeast.

Also, we're talking about Budweiser, here. "Peaking" is a relative term.


TL

I'll definately need to read through this thread some more and look at ways to improve my skills. I'm drinking a commercial beer from Widmer right now that is 7.2% ABV. If I'm reading the date on the bottle correctly it was either bottled or brewed on 10-28. I'm guessing bottled. Even so, it probably wasn't brewed that long before that, and it is an excellent well balanced beer. If the big boys can turn out good, high ABV that fast then we should be able to as well.

Bigsnake said:

Seems I can get most beers to bottle in 21 to 28 days, but then I have to wait for the bottles to carb. Some seem to take longer though like this Belgian ale has been in primary two weeks and I'm about to transfer. It's clearing up some but there's still a LOT of suspended yeast in there.

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My Belgian pale ales take forever to clear in the keg. You can use gelatin if you want to speed up the flocculation. I'll do this next time I use one of the Belgian strains, my DeKoninck clone is still cloudy (brewed 10/11) but it tastes wonderful now.

neuron555 said:

I agree with most of what has been said, ... but I had save out a few for myself, and when I tried it a month or two later, it had matured to a really excellent batch.

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I'm with you on this, I don't like grassy hops in a pale ale, and young hoppy beers can be a bit grassy. After about 6 weeks the hops mellow out making for a more balanced beer. An IPA on the other hand you could put a tap on the fermenter and I'd be happy.

My favorite part is,

Yuri_Rage said:

Sample. The beer is ready when it tastes good. If it's bready, yeasty, cloudy, chunky, twangy, too bitter, unrefined, etc, it's not ready. If it's clear and tastes good, keg it.

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It is such a simple concept and even I overlook it when people ask me how long to wait.

I am switching to a different style. It is the "keep everything full" method. I keep 4 of my kegs full (I actually have 8 kegs but I keep 4 full.) And I keep 3 of my carboys full. When I finish a keg it is time for something to go in it.

If a beer has been in a carboy too long (2-3+ months) I bottle it. If everything is full and I still want to brew something new I will bottle something.

Well that is the plan anyways. I had it working for a week or 2. But the real world got in the way. Currently I only have 3 kegs and 2 carboys going.

It is hard for me to drink that much beer. At most I drink about 2.5 gallons a week. Which means I brew about every other week. And if I miss a week or 2 I stand no chance of running out of beer.

I do rack to a secondary presently. But I think I will stop that. I need to run a test on that.

Why the rush? What's wrong with letting beer age?

I save at least a few bottles of every brew I make to age out for an extended period (at least 9 months) and I still have 1 bottle left of my very first brew, a mead from over 2 years ago.

I guess if your goal is quantity over quality, then yeah, you probably want a fast turnaround. But the best beers (and wines) in the world require aging in order to come into their own.

When people ask me why I am so picky about what I drink, and why I drink such expensive beers, I tell them it is because I prefer to drink less often and drink something that is worth drinking.

I think your perspective about this issue really says more about your personal habits than it does about your abilities as a brewer. I could brew a beer ready to drink in 2 weeks if I really wanted to, but I don't want to.

Right now I am starting to think about experimenting with oaking beer and with lambic/wild-type fermentations, plus I already have some experience with gruit-type (unhopped herbal) ales. I think in the big picture, doing something like this takes far more skill and experience.

Anyone can learn the technical and scientific aspects of brewing and kegging. However, making truly outstanding and unique beer is an ART.

madewithchicken said:

My favorite part is,

I do rack to a secondary presently. But I think I will stop that. I need to run a test on that.

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Three reasons why I go to a secondary otherwise I leave it alone:
- Free up my conical fermentator.
- If the beer is waiting too long in the primary so as not to catch off flavors from the trub.
- I&#8217;m going to re-pitch the yeast slurry from my conical.

Isn't kegging from the primary, secondary? and then that secondary would become conditioning?

For the first time I bottled my beer skipping secondary. Brown Ale 1.042, 3 weeks primary and straight to the bottles.
And sure enough - it is over-carbonated. I think you can skip secondary, but only when you keg the beer and you can control the level of carbonation.

I know that alot of people don't secondary, but I still like it for three reasons. You are really sure fermentation is done (if there is yeast in there, it can still ferment), it helps with clarification, and it makes you be patient and let it age a little longer so you aren't drinking green beer.

Coming back and doing all grain brews now after many years doing wine from grapes I would have to say:

For most beer styles (and for what most of your non homebrew friends think of when you say "would you like a beer") Fresh Beer Is The Best Beer.

You know some people have this impression that aged wine is best but that's not always the case either. Many types of white wines and some reds (Beaujolais Nouveaux for instance) are meant to be drunk very fresh - within months of bottling; their flavour profiles only deteriorating with age. Other wines are pretty much undrinkable until they have aged at least 2 years and then only get really good after 6+ years in bottle.

This all has to do with the chemistry of the drink and the tastes of the drinker. As the food/chemical you are consuming goes through time related changes during the aging process it's flavour changes. You as the consumer happen to like the flavour at a certain point X on its timeline.

I have to agree that for most beers and for most people this time X is very much within the 1 month (plus or minus) range. And for other beers and other tasters that time point is going to be different.

I agree wholeheartedly that if you follow good and simple brewing practice you will need less time waiting for your beer to heal from the mistakes of underpitching, overracking, underhopping etc etc.

I used a Wyeast American Ale smack pack yesterday for my first AG brew. Does that count as a starter or should I have made a larger starter? I'm still waiting for signs of activity but I'm not concerned yet.