3068 low temp ferment finishing high

I've done a number of extract hefe and dunkelweizen brews with Wyeast 3068 over the last few months, since discovering that fermenting my brews at 17C (62.6F) gave me the exact flavour profile I was chasing (similar to a Weihenstephan hefe/dunkel).

The beers have come out great, particularly the dunkel, terrific mouthfeel, great aroma, and that bready/malty caramel almost chocolate flavour you get from a commercial version.

Interestingly though, I'm getting a final gravity of around 1019, with a starting gravity around 1052. That's an attenuation of less than 65%. When I've fermented higher with this yeast, I've had lower finishes, around 1015. But I much prefer the result from the lower ferment temp.

I'm not all that worried about it, I've done forced ferment tests and the beers are always fully fermented, and they carb up perfectly when bulk primed. I'm just curious if anyone's had a similar result with low temp ferments on 3068?

I've always used yeastcalc.com to determine my starter volumes, with a view to under-pitching at around 80% of optimal (e.g. 150 billion in 5 gallons). Not that pitch rate has a lot to do with FG as I understand it.

My fermentation is normally complete within 5 or 6 days, at which point I raise the temp up to 68F, and I've even given the fermenter a swirl (which doesn't really seem necessary given 3068 is such a low floccer). Then I leave it another week, at which point it's still at around 1019...I bulk prime, bottle, and am drinking it 5 or 6 days later.

My recipe is similar to that in "Brewing Classic Styles", but that recipe suggests an FG of around 1013, as do the BJCP guidelines. 3.5kg (7.7lb) of CBW Bavarian Wheat LME, 350gm (12oz) of crystal grain.

Any other hefe/dunkel extract brewers out there using 3068 at ~62F? What final gravity do you get?

I've run 3068 at 62 degrees a bunch, with hefeweizens and a weizenbock. Every time I used it, after a week or so of fermenting at 62 I cranked the temperature up to 70 for another week or two and it's finished with no problems.

I have always brewed my hefes at 74F with wyeast 3068. The recipe I used said to use the top end of ferm temps and it finishes in 5 or 6 days with a nice clove/banana hint to it.

My last Hefe was using a Northern Brewer kit with WY3068. I started the ferment at 62° and held it at that temp for 5 days. I then let it rise and finish at 64°. I overpitched the yeast to get a more spice forward flavor rather than banana. Bottled after 26 days in the primary with a FG of 1.012. Very tasty. Will use this same method again.

Hmmm, seems I might be alone here. I have also fermented with 3068 at 74F, and while the hefe was good, I much prefer the result with the 62F ferment.

CarnieBrew said:

Hmmm, seems I might be alone here. I have also fermented with 3068 at 74F, and while the hefe was good, I much prefer the result with the 62F ferment.

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2 out of the 3 people that replied said they ferment at 62, not sure why you think you're alone with that?

The 62 degree ferment is definitely the way to go. But after active fermentation is over (and the flavor profile is locked in), bumping the temperature up a bit is a good way to ensure attenuation. I do this with most beers where I'm worried about attenuation, and I don't think I'm alone.

zachattack said:

2 out of the 3 people that replied said they ferment at 62, not sure why you think you're alone with that?

The 62 degree ferment is definitely the way to go. But after active fermentation is over (and the flavor profile is locked in), bumping the temperature up a bit is a good way to ensure attenuation. I do this with most beers where I'm worried about attenuation, and I don't think I'm alone.

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No, sorry, what I mean is I'm alone in having a 62F ferment and a 1019 finish. I too have upped the ferment temps into the low 70's, for as long as 10 days, and it hasn't budged the gravity at all.

zachattack said:

2 out of the 3 people that replied said they ferment at 62, not sure why you think you're alone with that?

The 62 degree ferment is definitely the way to go. But after active fermentation is over (and the flavor profile is locked in), bumping the temperature up a bit is a good way to ensure attenuation. I do this with most beers where I'm worried about attenuation, and I don't think I'm alone.

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The OP is alone because of the lower attenuation. Not the fermentation temperature.

I am not sure what would cause the lower attenuation. The only thing from what you mentioned is the underpitching. I know you said it does not really affect attenuation, but perhaps try to do 200 billion for the batch and see what happens.

I've always operated the 68 strain (from either Wyeast or White Labs) at about 62 and found the results excellent. I don't have my logs with me (away for the summer) but don't think I ever got an ADF as low as the 63% as indicated by 1.052 ---> 1.019. I believe I'd remember that. Nor have I ever raised the fermentation temperature as terminal gravity is approached. Now I've never done this with extract so perhaps that's where the explanation lies. Extracts are infamous for low levels of FAN. Not saying that is the cause but rather suggesting it as a possibility. Did you oxygenate? Again, just a suggested possibility.

Gotcha, my bad. Try warming it up a bit at the end next time! Even with a strong weizenbock (I think ~1.080 OG) I had no problem with attenuation. 1 week at 62, 2 weeks at 68 or 70.

Yes, I was wondering if it might be an extract related issue. I am doing full volume partials and small volume AG brews for my pale ale style beers, but I like the result I get from CBW Bavarian Wheat LME when doing a weizen, so I stick with extract.

I'll try bumping it up to the mid 70's post-ferment next time, but I don't think it'll help...as I said I did a forced ferment test over 48 hours, with regular shaking, and it was still 1019 at the end...so I can only assume all my fermentables have been used up.

Going to brew an extract hefe tomorrow with store-fresh 3068. I was going to run it at around 64. I'll do 62 and get you some numbers. Of course it will be a month and a half...

Why will it be a month and a half? Every wheat beer I've ever brewed has reached final gravity within around 5 days. That includes those I did at higher temps that reached 1012 type FG's. I usually leave it another 7-10 days after that, but rarely any longer. It's not like we're waiting for the yeast to floc, given the hefe/dunkel style calls for the wheat to still be served in suspension.

The common theme on wheat beers around these parts seems to be that they ferment fast, and should be consumed fresh. Normally ~2 weeks in the primary, then a week in the bottle and they're ready to drink.

Have you found otherwise?

CarnieBrew said:

Why will it be a month and a half? Every wheat beer I've ever brewed has reached final gravity within around 5 days. I usually leave it another 7-10 days after that, but never any longer. It's not like we're waiting for the yeast to floc, given the hefe/dunkel style calls for the wheat to still be in suspension.

The common theme on wheat beers around these parts seems to be that they ferment fast, and should be consumed fresh. Normally ~2 weeks in the primary, then a week in the bottle and they're ready to drink.

Have you found otherwise?

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The yeast in suspension comes from rolling the bottle before serving. It shouldnt be so laden with yeast it looks cloudy in the bottle.

I agree, but I also find mine are quite clear in the bottle after a few days of conditioning, even after only two weeks in the fermenter.

Here's the numbers.

6 lbs light LME
1/2 lbs wheat malt
1/2 lbs two row
1/2 lbs cara-pils
1 oz hallertau at 60
1 L stirred starter of WY3068
Ferment at straight 18 C +/- 1 C (~65 F)

OG 1.048
d1 1.044
d2 -
d3 -
d4 1.022

Was out of town most of the weekend and fell asleep instead of checking. Oops. Had some major airlock activity though. This morning (d4), I found the airlock blown out and liquid on the fermenter and in the chamber. I'll try to keep better daily numbers now. Later this week (assuming it levels out) I'll try again at 62 F and wash my grain better.

jordanmills said:

I found the airlock blown out and liquid on the fermenter and in the chamber.

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Yes, that would be 3068. Almost chases you out of the brewery. I had a SS cylindroconical with a flat lid made of stainless that probably weighed 25 - 30 lbs. 3068 would pick that thing up and slide it out of the way. Result being essentially the same as what you have: splooge all over the place.

ajdelange said:

Yes, that would be 3068. Almost chases you out of the brewery. I had a SS cylindroconical with a flat lid made of stainless that probably weighed 25 - 30 lbs. 3068 would pick that thing up and slide it out of the way. Result being essentially the same as what you have: splooge all over the place.

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Yeah I haven't used it in over a year. Forgot how much I love its personality.

i agree that ramping up fermentation temp towards the end is the way to go.

however, let's define 'towards the end.' the posters that mention "1 week at 62, 1 week at 70" are IMO waiting way too long to get the benefit of the ramped up temperature. it's like turning on the afterburners when the jet has already landed.

instead, on day two of fermentation at 62 degrees, get out the ol' hydrometer and start taking readings. when it is around 2/3 complete (for a typical hefe this would represent a gravity of 1.026-1.030), then bump the temp up to about room temperature. typically this is going to be on about the third day of having an active krausen.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, perhaps I'm leaving it too late before upping the temps. Next time I'll try what you've suggested, and report back. I hope it doesn't change the profile too much though, I'm loving this beer. Who would've thought 1019 could be so drinkable?

CarnieBrew said:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, perhaps I'm leaving it too late before upping the temps. Next time I'll try what you've suggested, and report back. I hope it doesn't change the profile too much though, I'm loving this beer. Who would've thought 1019 could be so drinkable?

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with (super clean) lagers, people will ramp up the temps for a d-rest when they are 75% done. the general thinking from what i understand is that the flavor profile from the yeast is somewhat set after the initial reproduction. however, I would think with a weiss if you wanted to alter the profile to add more banana you might ramp up the temp earlier (say at 40-50% attenuation) and to not alter the flavor at all you would ramp later (say 75% attenuation). i haven't experimented enough with the German wheat strains to know this for sure though.

i would say just pay attention to your gravity at the time of increasing the temperature, taste before and after, and keep good notes.

Just finishing up an experiment with 3068. Brewed 10 gallons and split 5 gal in a keg and 50 gal in 750ml bottles (currently conditioning). A few points here:

My OG was 1.046, but I was shooting for 1.052. Perhaps this was because I took out 10% of mash and did a decoction on it (before I got to saccharification rest), thereby reducing fermentables by the ~10% (by prematurely denaturing conversion enzymes). (Will keep this in mind for next time I brew this recipe.)

Pitched 3 litres of starter at 62. Maintained ferm temp between 62 to 64 for first 5 days of ferment. Within those 5 days, gravity was down to 1.012. Then I brought temp to 66 degrees for diacetyl rest and finished at 1.011 by end of Day 7. Dropped temp back down to 62 for 3 more days (until I could get to packaging...).

Racked off 5 gallons to keg and it's still carbing. After 3 days, it's got a great rocky head, but carbonation doesn't last in beer yet. (Need to let it carb some more). The force carb is set to 21 psi (~3.5 vols). May have to increase that...

I've definitely got plenty of the 4-vinylguaiacol-based (clove) phenol characteristic, but only hints of the isoamyl acetate ester (banana) flavor. So my conclusion here is that if you wait until at least Day 5 of fermentation to ramp up the temp, don't expect to get too much banana profile. It'd be interesting to hear from others who have ramped the temp sooner in the fermentation cycle, and to what temp. Of course, the clove flavors will fade quicker than the banana (if it's around that long), so maybe it will be a little more balanced in a short while. Depending on how this ages, I may reduce the time at 62/64 to just 3 days next time I make this beer.

The other half of the batch was bottled in 750ml bottles by adding speise (using Bavarian DME) to reach a target of 4.1 vols. I'll sample first bottle in 3 weeks from bottle time (about another 2.5 weeks) and try to report back at that time with side-by-side taste test results.

To summarize, my question is, "if anyone's got more experience with different fermentation profiles, please add to the discussion". Thanks!

Sequoia said:

Just finishing up an experiment with 3068. Brewed 10 gallons and split 5 gal in a keg and 50 gal in 750ml bottles (currently conditioning). A few points here:

My OG was 1.046, but I was shooting for 1.052. Perhaps this was because I took out 10% of mash and did a decoction on it (before I got to saccharification rest), thereby reducing fermentables by the ~10% (by prematurely denaturing conversion enzymes). (Will keep this in mind for next time I brew this recipe.)

Pitched 3 litres of starter at 62. Maintained ferm temp between 62 to 64 for first 5 days of ferment. Within those 5 days, gravity was down to 1.012. Then I brought temp to 66 degrees for diacetyl rest and finished at 1.011 by end of Day 7. Dropped temp back down to 62 for 3 more days (until I could get to packaging...).

Racked off 5 gallons to keg and it's still carbing. After 3 days, it's got a great rocky head, but carbonation doesn't last in beer yet. (Need to let it carb some more). The force carb is set to 21 psi (~3.5 vols). May have to increase that...

I've definitely got plenty of the 4-vinylguaiacol-based (clove) phenol characteristic, but only hints of the isoamyl acetate ester (banana) flavor. So my conclusion here is that if you wait until at least Day 5 of fermentation to ramp up the temp, don't expect to get too much banana profile. It'd be interesting to hear from others who have ramped the temp sooner in the fermentation cycle, and to what temp. Of course, the clove flavors will fade quicker than the banana (if it's around that long), so maybe it will be a little more balanced in a short while. Depending on how this ages, I may reduce the time at 62/64 to just 3 days next time I make this beer.

The other half of the batch was bottled in 750ml bottles by adding speise (using Bavarian DME) to reach a target of 4.1 vols. I'll sample first bottle in 3 weeks from bottle time (about another 2.5 weeks) and try to report back at that time with side-by-side taste test results.

To summarize, my question is, "if anyone's got more experience with different fermentation profiles, please add to the discussion". Thanks!

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Great post to add to the discussion. In addition to your late temperature ramp, I might suggest that the lack of banana can at least partially be attributed to your high pitch rate.

So quick question for the floor: I pitched my dunkelweizen at 66 and it is now up to 72. It's day 3, so should I try to bring down the temp? What happens if I don't? I'd like a good mix of clove and banana from the yeast (3068). Was 66 too high to begin with?

brewhaha_rva said:

So quick question for the floor: I pitched my dunkelweizen at 66 and it is now up to 72. It's day 3, so should I try to bring down the temp? What happens if I don't? I'd like a good mix of clove and banana from the yeast (3068). Was 66 too high to begin with?

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My thoughts: It's a little high but I think it will be okay. I wouldn't try to bring down the temperature. If anything, once the krausen starts to drop, take the fermenter somewhere warmer so that temperature stays above 72. Otherwise, the temperature of the wort will fall as activity decreases. I like my temperatures to go in one direction only: UP

Thanks, progmac. I was a trifle worried about the temperature. I've been brewing for a year and I'm kind of past the stage where I am just excited to brew fizzy alcohol. I want my beers to actually, you know, be good.

brewhaha_rva said:

Was 66 too high to begin with?

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In my opinion, yes. 3068 has always done best for me (and that means really well) at 62 - 64. You get the clove, you get the banana and you get the fruitiness in balance, which in my opinion, and I emphasize that personal taste is involved here but this beer has won quite a few ribbons, can't be beat.

I can't believe that a couple degrees higher (i.e. 66) would have much of a detrimental effect but I'd try to keep it from getting much higher than that.

Should you cool it down now? Hard to say and I suspect that this thread is old enough by now that it is moot. Most beers benefit from some period of cold conditioning and best practice is, in my experience, to gradually lower the temperature once terminal gravity has been reached. You certainly don't need a diacetyl rest with 3068.

I don't know if anyone is still paying attention to this thread but I just brewed a Bavarian hefe with 3068 and it is fermenting right now. I have no temp control, so it is doing its thing at room temps. First day it explodes out if the fermenter at 72 degrees and it has been at 66-68 every day since (now day 7). I am very curious to see how it turns out because it is unlike any other fermentation I have seen. Usually a vigorous fermentation burns out after a couple days, 3 at the most. What is interesting about his one is it has exploded and fermented like crazy, and yet after 6 days it was still bubbling very regularly. Anyone else seeing this? Hope it isn't contaminated after the blowout!

Tcl1999 said:

I don't know if anyone is still paying attention to this thread but I just brewed a Bavarian hefe with 3068 and it is fermenting right now. I have no temp control, so it is doing its thing at room temps. First day it explodes out if the fermenter at 72 degrees and it has been at 66-68 every day since (now day 7). I am very curious to see how it turns out because it is unlike any other fermentation I have seen. Usually a vigorous fermentation burns out after a couple days, 3 at the most. What is interesting about his one is it has exploded and fermented like crazy, and yet after 6 days it was still bubbling very regularly. Anyone else seeing this? Hope it isn't contaminated after the blowout!

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Your fermentation is right on schedule with 3068. Last hefe I brewed I held at 64° until day 6. Day 6 I let the temp start rising to a high of 66°. Fermentation didn't really slow dramatically until day 9. Day 9 I had 1 bubble per 12 seconds coming through an S-airlock on the carboy.

I use rate of CO2 production as a gauge of fermentation vigor since I ferment in sealed carboys. I use the hydrometer to find when fermentation is actually finished.

My 7.5 gallon acid carboy is now only used for fermentations with 3068 because of the krausen depth this yeast produces.