A question about perfect machines

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BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

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Okay, I have a question and I really do want to have the answer. Maybe someone here knows the answer, if not, just please ignore this topic. Back to my drunken ramblings, scary part, I'm pretty sober.

So you build a perfect machine, it's perfect in every way. Everything is going along fine, then one day it springs a leak. Is it still a perfect machine? Was it a perfect machine in the first place? Do perfect machines spring leaks?

Maybe if you built it to be self-healing? Or it's a perfect machine that just requires a little upkeep?

Would you keep insisting that the machine was perfect if one day it springs a leak(starts leaking)? Would you try to fix it, or just stand back and watch it leak? Because, after all, it was the perfect machine. It must be able to fix itself?

How is something perfect if you have to go back and fix it? The thing I really want the answer to: Do perfect machines spring leaks? Or was it your own mistake to call it perfect in the first place?
 
The word "perfect" means without any flaws or defects. If it's leaking, either it's supposed to leak, or it's not perfect. Even being self-healing isn't perfect.

Now, it's possible that it can be perfect for a limited time. That it is designed in such a way that it will run perfectly until it wears out after a specific time. So it could in theory be perfect until it's done, then spring a leak - but after it's perfect time runs out, it's no longer perfect.

Probably though, there's no such thing as absolute perfection. There are only approximations.
 
If it's leaking, either it's supposed to leak, or it's not perfect.
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I'm going to go for a walk and think about that... So if it's a fact("if" being the main word) that is was perfect, then the only other conclusion, it was supposed to leak? Or is there another option?
 
passedpawn said:
It's still perfect if you look at the leak as a feature, not an imperfection.

Maybe you need to be as liberal with "perfect" as you are with "sober". :)
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Ah, yes, another option... still going for that walk though... I hope I don't fall down.
 
Someone's perfection is making your machine and maintaining it and repairing it and keeping it up to perfection.

Someone else's perfection is making the perfect machine and not turning it on for fear that it may leak one day.
 
two_hearted said:
Someone's perfection is making your machine and maintaining it and repairing it and keeping it up to perfection.

Someone else's perfection is making the perfect machine and not turning it on for fear that it may leak one day.
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It's not the second one, the machine was turned on. Unless they kept it up to perfection, then it's no longer perfect? It was perfect, but now it's not because they let it go? Forgot about keeping up with the maintenance?
 
So it could in theory be perfect until it's done, then spring a leak - but after it's perfect time runs out, it's no longer perfect.
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Okay, is this the final answer? It was perfect, now it's not, someone forgot to maintain it. So that would be the fault of the creator, not the machine, right? It's not the machine's fault it was neglected?
 
You talking about an eternal, or perpetual, perfect machine? The amount of engineering that would go into such an item is rather daunting. Unless it has no actual moving parts that is, where nothing can wear, ever. While you can have/make something that lasts a looooong time, chances are it will eventually wear and be less than perfect. Maybe, in the future, there will be self regenerating materials that are [essentially] eternal. The best we can do, currently, is make things very wear resistant. Through lubrication impregnation, or different super-low friction platings/coatings/etc.

IMO, a design, or concept can be 'perfect' but once you start to try and manufacture it, things tend to go sideways. I also believe that the universe abhors perfection, so you have that working against you. :eek: Even IF you can get something produced that appears to be perfect today, look at it again in a few years. See how 'perfect' it is then. :D

Actually, there IS one thing that you can get in perfection... The perfect idiot. :eek: :D
 
Misplaced_Canuck said:
All machines wear out eventually. :)

MC
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Golddiggie said:
You talking about an eternal, or perpetual, perfect machine? The amount of engineering that would go into such an item is rather daunting. Unless it has no actual moving parts that is, where nothing can wear, ever. While you can have/make something that lasts a looooong time, chances are it will eventually wear and be less than perfect. Maybe, in the future, there will be self regenerating materials that are [essentially] eternal. The best we can do, currently, is make things very wear resistant. Through lubrication impregnation, or different super-low friction platings/coatings/etc.

IMO, a design, or concept can be 'perfect' but once you start to try and manufacture it, things tend to go sideways. I also believe that the universe abhors perfection, so you have that working against you. :eek: Even IF you can get something produced that appears to be perfect today, look at it again in a few years. See how 'perfect' it is then. :D

Actually, there IS one thing that you can get in perfection... The perfect idiot. :eek: :D
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Ahhh, thank you, I will get back to what I was doing....
 
where nothing can wear, ever.
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appears to be perfect today, look at it again in a few years. See how 'perfect' it is then.
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What if you thought nothing could wear, ever, and it still sprung a leak? And you called it perfect... Oh okay, I think I understand...
 
So then you would realize it was never perfect in the first place?
 
...and the first signs of the Colorado, Washington State legalizations have reached me here in Kentucky. If I was back in Pullman I would totally have an opinion on this.
 
BobbiLynn said:
So then you would realize it was never perfect in the first place?
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Pretty much... What you thought was perfect was actually not perfect (or flawed) to begin with. Even if it takes a decade (or more) to actually wear, it's still not a perfect item/machine.

Most items are tested in labs where they can simulate hundreds, thousands, or more, hours of continued use to find the fail point. These can also be run in different environmental conditions to find the fail points. To have something be actually 'perfect' and never wear, would mean it would need to survive the entire gambit of conditions that can be simulated (includes the extremes that can be produced in a lab) for an extended period of time. Reality is, everything has a failure point.
 
no actual moving parts that is, where nothing can wear, ever.
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But what if you think this, but it springs a leak anyway? Then, you just admit you are wrong-about it being perfect? Right? Or do you keep insisting it was perfect?
 
Just to clear up any confusion, by "spring a leak", I don't mean it's actually leaking fluid, I just mean that something went wrong, it broke when it was supposed to be perfect.
 
BobbiLynn said:
But what if you think this, but it springs a leak anyway? Then, you just admit you are wrong-about it being perfect? Right? Or do you keep insisting it was perfect?
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IF it develops a leak then SOMETHING eroded/wore out/down on it. So something DID wear, which means it wasn't perfect to begin with. We don't have such materials, yet. At some point, I'm sure such a product/material will be developed. When that happens is anyone's guess. While there are products/elements that are close, I have yet to hear about/see anything that is absolute 0.000000% wear. It can be 'virtually' there during 'normal conditions' but it's still not there. Especially if they define 'normal conditions' to not include all conditions where the item could be used.
 
BobbiLynn said:
Just to clear up any confusion, by "spring a leak", I don't mean it's actually leaking fluid, I just mean that something went wrong, it broke when it was supposed to be perfect.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter, IMO... If it's leaking where it was not when made, and was designed to not leak, ever, then it's not perfect. Either the manufacturing process, materials, or design has at least one flaw in it. Having said flaw means it's not perfect simply by that item.

Perfect is an absolute. "Almost perfect" is an oxymoron. Like "honest politician" or "military intelligence"... :eek:
 
IF it develops a leak then SOMETHING eroded/wore out/down on it.
Click to expand...

Okay, that's what I thought too... No such thing as a perfect machine? Because a perfect machine would never eventually wear down?

Anything that eventually springs a leak is not perfect. Right?
 
Pretty much... What you thought was perfect was actually not perfect (or flawed) to begin with.
Click to expand...

Is this really the correct answer? This is very important. So thank you.
 
Golddiggie said:
I know, exactly, where my towel is (plus several others). I even have the one with the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything. :rockin:
Click to expand...

Can I borrow a towel, I just need to dry off real quick...? Damn machine sprung a leak.
 

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