Electric Element Control question

I want to build an e-keggle. I have 240v (220V?) available. I am going to use a 50A GFCI breaker in the main panel, a 30A breaker and a 20A (120V) in a sub-panel. I wanted to use a 2000w 120V in my HLT and a 4500 or 5500W in the brew kettle.

What is the purpose of the SSR and PID? is it just temp control? Boil-off control?
Does running the 4500w element 100% burn the wort?

I'm not trying to get off cheap and not use these items. I am just trying to understand their purpose.

SSR and the pid are the electric version of the control vavle for a gas burner. You open it up to get to the full boil then reduce heat to maintainboil. the pid and ssr cycle the heating element to reduce input heat to maintain boil.

The SSR (Solid State Relay) is what switches power on and off to your element. You can use a mechanical relay (contactor), but the benefit of the SSR is that it can rapidly change states without the mechanical wear of a physical relay.

The PID controller monitors temperature and tells the SSR when to turn on and off to maintain the set temperature. We call them PIDs, but for BK/HLT use, you don't want to use PID control. The reason so many people use PID controllers for this is that many of them also have on/off and manual modes. The on/off mode is useful for heating a HLT, where PID control can have a more difficult time with the slow ramp rate. Manual mode is useful for the BK, where you want to set a fixed percentage output, and the controller modulates the on/off cycle of the SSR to match the output you have set.

I still use a contactor to physically break the hot supply to the SSR so that I can override the PID output, but that's just a safety thing and has nothing to do with temp control.

Does that help?
MrH

That's what I thought. Thanks


I have another question. Will the 50A GFCI do it's job if I have other breakers in front of it?

Yes. Just make sure you ground everything well all the way back to your spa panel. This is much more important than the GFCI.

Oh, and I think the wort scorching myth has been busted fairly recently. I think it's more important to use stainless elements, regardless of the density (eaiser to clean). I used to have a 4500W incoloy (black) element in my RIMS chamber and I never could keep the thing clean. Beerstone stuck to it like crazy. I've since replaced it with a stainless 6000W element. Haven't gotten to try it yet (first wet test this afternoon), but it should keep clean a lot better.


MrH

It's not so much about scortching but rather wasting energy. You don't have to run a 5500 watt element at 100% output to maintain an aggressive boil.

MrH,

Where did you get your stainless element?

Lowe's has a 5500W stainless element.

Just searched Lowes website, under "water heater element" they didn't list any stainless ones, did have an incoloy 5500, is this the one you mean?

I don't know about their site but I was carrying it around my local store yesterday trying to decide what I wanted to do. It was 18 and some change. I have been waffling between hard mounted elements and heat sticks... hard mounted elements are winning just cuz there are no submerged wires involved...

it was stainless. I saw the other one also.

I use a SS wirlpool, i think element for my hlt. I got it from lowes. I used this element because it would fit in my hlt kettle., i have a camco ripple element from plumbingsupply.com for the bk. heres a pic of the hlt

I am also thinking of doing some electric in my keg, but i dont know much about it. I was also thinking of Doing a herms or rims system, but cant decide between the two. You guys got any recommendations? I was also worried about the scorching in the BK do you guys use a PID so it dosent do this? I have 2 converted kegs, one for my BK, and just converted the other for my MT but it loses so much heat that i need to do some sort of rims or herms. Any suggestions?

AiredAle said:

MrH,

Where did you get your stainless element?

Click to expand...

I got my new elements here and I love them. I did my first test with my HLT this afternoon and took 12 gallons of water from 44F (yes, our ground water is that cold) to 170F in 25 minutes, at least 50% faster than with my old 100K BTU burner. The other element is in my RIMS chamber running at 120V (1500W). Running at full flow recirc from my pump, I was getting a 15F rise in temp across the element, which is a LOT better than with my old 4500W element. Very happy so far...

MrH

Well I almost have it all together... last minute decision left me an ssr short... I decided to go with a 5500W in the HLT instead of a 2000W 120V element so I will have to break that other leg with a switch or a contactor.

Maybe I can get it all together and brew this weekend? We'll see.



those are 5500W stainless elements from Lowe's $16.84 each.

Yah, electric is so fast since it is to efficient in transferring heat. Seen a couple people with 9000W kettles on HBT now, those things must be crazy fast at heating water...

I was planning on using a digital thermostat to control the element. It can handle 16A so it should be able to cope with a 3500W element (220V).
In other words the thermostat will turn the element on and off to maintain temperature.
Is this possible ?
What is the advantage of using PID/SSR to control the element over using a thermostat ?

Bru said:

I was planning on using a digital thermostat to control the element. It can handle 16A so it should be able to cope with a 3500W element (220V).
In other words the thermostat will turn the element on and off to maintain temperature.
Is this possible ?
What is the advantage of using PID/SSR to control the element over using a thermostat ?

Click to expand...

You cant use a temp. control to control a boil, that is the PID advantage. For an HLT it will be fine

Is this temp. controller made for 220VAC? I ask only because most on here are 120VAC capable only... what brand?

Why can't I control the boil with a thermostat ? Surely I could set the temperature at, say, 97C - just before boiling point (Im at 5500ft asl - boiling point of water is 98C) ?

In SA we only have 220V.

From rs components.
Here is the link :
http://za.rs-online.com/web/search/...)&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=4294954828&Nty=1

They have many different options. If you have the time I'd appreciate a recommendation.

Bru said:

Why can't I control the boil with a thermostat ? Surely I could set the temperature at, say, 97C - just before boiling point (Im at 5500ft asl - boiling point of water is 98C) ?

In SA we only have 220V.

From rs components.
Here is the link :
http://za.rs-online.com/web/search/...)&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=4294954828&Nty=1

They have many different options. If you have the time I'd appreciate a recommendation.

Click to expand...

If you set it just below boiling, it will never boil. If you set it above boiling, it will never get to that temp. and will run full on. This has been discussed at great length. It is just the nature of the beast.

If you set the controller to just below boiling, you may not achieve a boil. If you do, it will oscillate quite a bit. If the controller is not solid state, but rather a mechanical contactor, it will wear out quickly.

With PID/SSR, you can select an effective output % in manual mode. It's the same as turning your gas half way down.

Bobby_M said:

If you set the controller to just below boiling, you may not achieve a boil. If you do, it will oscillate quite a bit. If the controller is not solid state, but rather a mechanical contactor, it will wear out quickly.

With PID/SSR, you can select an effective output % in manual mode. It's the same as turning your gas half way down.

Click to expand...

Bobby is smart, yup... that is it. Mechanical vs Solid State is also an issue if you are doing constant switching, which you will be.

Right - that makes sense - thanks.
The selection at my local supplier is a bit dawnting. Any recommendations ?
http://za.rs-online.com/web/search/...)&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=4294954828&Nty=1