All Group Buy Participants - NCM Price Change

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If you are ready to take the big step to open a LHBS: Congratulations. For those who want some advice please feel free to contact me. I’ll be glad to assist. I was a small business consultant and have 16 years experience with our LHBS. Send me a message and we’ll talk. I might suggest that a great place to learn and meet other LHBS owners would be the LD Carlson annual homebrewer’s conference in June. The AHA also has something at their conferences, although I am not familiar with what is available with them. The next one is in June 26th I think in Philadelphia.
 
Kind of funny how Keystone has removed my posts and banned me from posting on their Facebook book page. A simple post that said "Buying a pallet of grain is not an illegal act" due a posting trying to quote the 200 gallon/year.
 
Beerbrew112358 said:
If you are ready to take the big step to open a LHBS: Congratulations. For those who want some advice please feel free to contact me. I’ll be glad to assist. I was a small business consultant and have 16 years experience with our LHBS. Send me a message and we’ll talk. I might suggest that a great place to learn and meet other LHBS owners would be the LD Carlson annual homebrewer’s conference in June. The AHA also has something at their conferences, although I am not familiar with what is available with them. The next one is in June 26th I think in Philadelphia.
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What would you say was the biggest issue facing a start up excluding the money. Reason I ask is I have owned and ran a small business and my wife has owned and run a large international business.

I have checked all the local laws and am aware of the taxes involved so I am thinking it is going to be at least similar to about any other business once you get a handle on inventory.
 
As Keystone is in PA here is the PA info...


Pennsylvania Title 47, Chapter 1, Article IV, § 4-492
Malt or brewed beverages may be produced by any person without a license if such malt or brewed beverages are produced not for sale and total production does not exceed two hundred gallons per calendar year. Malt or brewed beverages produced in accordance with this paragraph may be used at organized affairs, exhibitions, competitions, contests, tastings or judging provided it is not sold or offered for sale.

crazyirishman34 said:
I thought it was 200 gallons per adult in the household?
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Also as an FYI... I have been in contact with the American Homebrewers Association and an working through them as this is an issue for all home brewers.
 
bkl63 said:
Kind of funny how Keystone has removed my posts and banned me from posting on their Facebook book page. A simple post that said "Buying a pallet of grain is not an illegal act" due a posting trying to quote the 200 gallon/year.
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I guess you shouldn't take it personal. The whole thing is gone now. These are not the droids you are looking for. carry on.
 
cracker said:
As far as I know Keystone does online sells. At least their homepage would lead you to think so.
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I hear their ads all the time on the BN...def think they ship although I have never checked them out.

Honestly, I have a love/hate relationship with buying online. there is the convenience and most places have an easy search feature, but I hate when i found out a few days to weeks later that something is out of stock. Very annoying. My biggest problem is just making it to the HBS stores during the hours they are open - gotta plan ahead
 
sweetcell said:
so are hops next?

are the LHBS going to complain to the hop growers that selling by the pound deprives them of by-the-ounce walk-in customers, and therefore HopsDirect and the like should stop selling to us?
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I think the hop business is scattered enough that it will not happen. With malt there are only a few big players and the barrier to entry is large. With hops not so much.
 
jeffb418 said:
Well that's great that NCM will work with LHBS to pull off bulk buys, but one issue... none of the HBS around me have accounts with NCM =/
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exactly. Looks like back to the drawing board for us. I am certainly not convinced until I see numbers.

Nice idea, but I would suggest to NCM to set up things before turning off the juice (this feels like a stall tactic). They still aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Like Jeff said, many LHBS' don't utilize NCM....
 
Varmintman said:
Yup I guess I phrased it wrong because we do agree. I think the shops that do not price compete are going to lose enough business that another shop can come in and get all of their business.

My big worry is that a store like costco or something will come in and undercut the LHBS. I worry about that because I am opening a LHBS and I know I cannot compete with something like that.
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sorry, in looking for something else in this thread I just realized that this should have been addressed to bobbym
 
CidahMastah said:
exactly. Looks like back to the drawing board for us. I am certainly not convinced until I see numbers.

Nice idea, but I would suggest to NCM to set up things before turning off the juice (this feels like a stall tactic). They still aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Like Jeff said, many LHBS' don't utilize NCM....
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problem for me is there is no LHBS that is even remotely convinent for me.
 
ON the wholesale side of things NCM is a bit pricy, when Michigan Brewing Co was in business they were selling sacks of Briess 2Row for around 25.00. I have even bought Cargill 20L 6-row for 20.00 for a sack at a local Brewery. It can be a WIN/WIN situation for a Small Brewery to offer bags of grain which could help to move them up to a better discount level.
 
I've been following these threads since this thing blew-up. I'm not trying to defend the LHBS because, I too, think they are way over-pricing grain. But I did want to bring up the fact that Briess is not without blame. Anybody who has been buying in bulk from NCM for any length of time will recall that up until this year, Briess malt was not available....period. NCM would not sell Briess products to homebrewer accounts period. Now they are basically priced so high that no one will buy Briess even though it is available. It's no coincidence that Briess is probably by far the most popular grain stocked in LHBS. But anyway, it is what it is. The price of grain just went up. Homebrewers will have to deal with it.
 
I work at a import company and we are getting in product from Germany. I inquired about getting grain and just got the pricing. It would be around $45 for a 55lb sack (might be a little lower) of Pils and $50 for Munich or Vienna with a minimum of 30 sacks per variety. Its not really better than CMG but its a possible alternative. If anybody is interested i could put together a group buy.

Edit: This would be pickup in North Jersey
 
IN MD, has anyone talked to the folks at Baying Hound Aleworks to see if they'd be down with helping us MD brewers to get bulk shipments in?
 
jbay76 said:
IN MD, has anyone talked to the folks at Baying Hound Aleworks to see if they'd be down with helping us MD brewers to get bulk shipments in?
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We are back in business in MD, halfway through round 2 since the "grain embargo". Wondering if any other group buys are still going on? I combed through posts and looks like only one or two of the group buys is still alive...that sucks! :(
 
Bobby_M said:
Possible solution? Talk to your LHBS and tell them your club is willing to add one full pallet of grain to their next pallet order and you're willing to pay $5 a sack over cost. That's $200 profit for them for holding stock for 10 minutes. If they decline, tell them you're going to the next store and advising your club to boycott on all ingredients. If you truly have the upper hand with numbers, they will listen.
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The LHBS will have to charge tax and whatnot, at a minimum, but I think this is a fair solution. Locally here, I know a LHBS that offered to do it "for nothing" just to get people to come into the store for pick-up! Those people may also want a few pounds of specialty malts, yeast, hops, bungs, etc that will help drive loyalty and business to them in the future.

unfortunately, I don't think they have the warehouse/dock space to accommodate 10,000+# orders on a bimonthly basis, but the sentiment is reasonable and fair, IMO.
 
and advising your club to boycott on all ingredients
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i'm down with that plan except for that last part. i wouldn't say "boycott", that seems retaliatory. instead i'd point out that folks are naturally going to be more loyal to the place that will accommodate the group buy, will be dropping in for additional supplies, etc... you know, that whole honey/vinegar thing.
 
Randar said:
unfortunately, I don't think they have the warehouse/dock space to accommodate 10,000+# orders on a bimonthly basis, but the sentiment is reasonable and fair, IMO.
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10,000 lbs? try 25,000 lbs (477 sacks). that's a lot of grain to unload from a truck and haul into their store one sack at a time.
 
hustlebird said:
Has anyone dealt with http://www.gwkent.com/ before? I found them on the distributers list off the briess website. If you add more then a couple hundred pounds onto your online order they have a common frieght truck option. May be more economical? I know their selection is **** compared to CMG, but its better then nothing right?
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Has anyone dealt with GW Kent I was thinking about giving them a try ?

All the best

S_M
 
brew_ny said:
Has anyone dealt with GW Kent I was thinking about giving them a try ?

All the best

S_M
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They are decent. Limited on selection, no MO options. They require loading dock for delivery of pallets. And shipping prices are slightly higher than NCM. No shipping discount for multiple pallets like NCM would offer. Just be clear with your order upfront.
 
jeffb418 said:
They are decent. Limited on selection, no MO options. They require loading dock for delivery of pallets. And shipping prices are slightly higher than NCM. No shipping discount for multiple pallets like NCM would offer. Just be clear with your order upfront.
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They do offer Gambrinus ESB Malt which I've read is suppose to be similar to Marris Otter.
 
stonebrewer said:
I boycotted the Brewcraft table at the NHC 2013 Expo in protest of NCM stopping shipments to our group buys. Saw very little traffic at their table...
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was there an NCM sticker in our goodie bag? i ended up with one, and i avoided the NCM table like the plague.

i had half a mind to go tell them, very politely, that i disagreed with their recent decisions to stop selling directly to group buys but i didn't want to be that negative in what was otherwise the happiest place on earth (IMO). besides, those folks behind the table likely had nothing to do with the decision and were even more likely to be powerless to do anything about it.
 

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