Priming with Palmer's graph

OK,

I will be bottling in a few days and want to know about adjusting carbonation. I brewed a hefe as my first and according to the style guide it's supposed to be pretty carby (and I like them that way). My question is how to use Palmer's chart, posted here:




Let's say I bottle at 70 degrees and I drawl my line to to 3.25 CO2, do I continue the angle to 6oz of corn sugar, or drawl a straight line from 3.25 to 5oz?

You continue on that angle to get to the ounces of sugar.

how does the temperature even affect the amount of sugar you need? It seems like the yeast will consume the sugar as well at 50F as it will at 70F, even if it takes a bit longer. can someone explain briefly?

By the way, I wouldn't prime to more than about 2.9 volumes, max. It'll be super carbed at 2.9, champagne like (not to mention risking bottle bombs) if higher than 3.0, in my opinion.

snailsongs said:

how does the temperature even affect the amount of sugar you need? It seems like the yeast will consume the sugar as well at 50F as it will at 70F, even if it takes a bit longer. can someone explain briefly?

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Well, if the beer has fermented at 50 degrees, and been kept at 50 degrees, it's already got quite a bit of dissolved co2 in it. I especially notice it when I pull lagers out of the cold (34 degree) area, or even with wines under airlock. They'll be quite gassy at a colder temperature, since co2 is more readily dissolved in suspension in a cold substance. Warm the beer up, and it'll bubble like mad- as the co2 comes out of suspension in the warmer temperature.

So, if the beer is at a colder temperature, it's assumed to already have some dissolved co2 in it.

YooperBrew said:

Well, if the beer has fermented at 50 degrees, and been kept at 50 degrees, it's already got quite a bit of dissolved co2 in it. I especially notice it when I pull lagers out of the cold (34 degree) area, or even with wines under airlock. They'll be quite gassy at a colder temperature, since co2 is more readily dissolved in suspension in a cold substance. Warm the beer up, and it'll bubble like mad- as the co2 comes out of suspension in the warmer temperature.

So, if the beer is at a colder temperature, it's assumed to already have some dissolved co2 in it.

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thanks, yooper! that makes perfect sense.

YooperBrew said:

Well, if the beer has fermented at 50 degrees, and been kept at 50 degrees, it's already got quite a bit of dissolved co2 in it. I especially notice it when I pull lagers out of the cold (34 degree) area, or even with wines under airlock. They'll be quite gassy at a colder temperature, since co2 is more readily dissolved in suspension in a cold substance. Warm the beer up, and it'll bubble like mad- as the co2 comes out of suspension in the warmer temperature.

So, if the beer is at a colder temperature, it's assumed to already have some dissolved co2 in it.

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I am sorry I misunderstand something.

Is the temp what your going to store it at, what it was fermented at (went up and down like a yo-yo), or the temp at bottling (which is what I was thinking).

BillTheSlink said:

I am sorry I misunderstand something.

Is the temp what your going to store it at, what it was fermented at (went up and down like a yo-yo), or the temp at bottling (which is what I was thinking).

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It's the temp at bottling. sorry to be so confusing. I think it's worth mentioning that if you fermented at 70 degrees the entire time, and only "cold crashed" it to bottle, I think that the co2 level would be quite a bit different than a beer that never went above 50 degrees. That's why I mentioned lagers. Those beers seem practically carbonated when you check them in secondary! Warming the beer seems to "knock" the co2 out of suspension, so if it's at 70 degrees or so, just use the nomograph as indicated.

Sometimes I just plain talk too much! Shutting up now.

YooperBrew said:

Sometimes I just plain talk too much! Shutting up now.

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some of us like your input.....carry on

FWIW... When I have bottled, I have used the highest temp the beer has been at. For example, fermented at 65, then let warm to 70 (room temp) then crash cooled to 35. I used 70 degrees for priming calculating. My reasoning is this. After fermentation is complete, as the beer warms up some co2 is going to escape, but when it is cooled long after fermentation there is no more co2 being put into the solution. Is this reasonable? So far it seems to have worked fine.

MajorTom, I think that would be logical. Even if you crash cooled post fermentation, there would be no new CO2 being produced, and there would not be sufficient pressure to force any significant amount of CO2 back into solution. Plus the amount of air in the headspace would contract as it cooled. So I guess you would use the highest post-fermentation temperature.

One thing I don't understand about the chart though. Wouldn't it have to take serving temperature into account? Does the chart assume some standard serving temp, or does the range of standard serving temps not create a significant variation in CO2 absorbed in the beer? Maybe I am missing something.

MajorTom said:

FWIW... When I have bottled, I have used the highest temp the beer has been at. For example, fermented at 65, then let warm to 70 (room temp) then crash cooled to 35. I used 70 degrees for priming calculating. My reasoning is this. After fermentation is complete, as the beer warms up some co2 is going to escape, but when it is cooled long after fermentation there is no more co2 being put into the solution. Is this reasonable? So far it seems to have worked fine.

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I like this reasoning very much.