Weissbier Bee Cave Brewery Bavarian Hefeweizen

as_saturn_ascends said:

Hey Ed, I have been searching for this online for about an 90 min so i thought i would ask the expert. What is the difference between using wheat berries and wheat malt? Is the wheat malt easily converted and the berries not so much? I use wheat berries as an adjunct in a beer of mine and love the nice wheaty taste they lend. what would happen if i used unmalted wheat?

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The wheat berrys are not malted, so trying to get to the sugars will be hard.

I use malted wheat because the starches are now available to be converted to sugars in the mash at the stated temp & time which is the whole reason of using malted grains.

As an adjucnt in small amounts, it looks to add some flavor though, but in a Bavarian Hefe, over 50% of the grist must come from Wheat, brewers use malted wheat for this purpose.

Not sure if this has been asked and answered here already (I read most of it) but here goes: I plan to make this as one of my first all grains this month but need to bottle instead of keg. I have the ability to keg, but this one will need to be bottled as it is for a friend and we are brewing and bottling at his house 2 hours away.

anyways, any suggestions for bottling? If I don't want to use corn sugar for priming what are my alternatives? Since there is supposed to be yeast still in suspension, is there danger of of bottle bombs? do you need to cut back on the amount of sugar used for priming? when serving should it be swirled to put some of the yeast back into suspension or will it have enough already?

Don't want to sound stupid, but I have never made this style of beer before and don't want any surprises, especially at my freind's (who also happens ot be my boss) house!!

Ceedubya said:

Not sure if this has been asked and answered here already (I read most of it) but here goes: I plan to make this as one of my first all grains this month but need to bottle instead of keg. I have the ability to keg, but this one will need to be bottled as it is for a friend and we are brewing and bottling at his house 2 hours away.

anyways, any suggestions for bottling? If I don't want to use corn sugar for priming what are my alternatives? Since there is supposed to be yeast still in suspension, is there danger of of bottle bombs? do you need to cut back on the amount of sugar used for priming? when serving should it be swirled to put some of the yeast back into suspension or will it have enough already?

Don't want to sound stupid, but I have never made this style of beer before and don't want any surprises, especially at my freind's (who also happens ot be my boss) house!!

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If you want to be traditional, brew another batch on bottling day and add some of that wort to your beer at bottling.

Or you could save some wort, and use that.

Or use corn sugar or dme. I think dme would suit you well.

No risk of bottle bombs due to yeast, its the sugar content that's important there.

And yes, serve mit hefe (with yeast)

Good luck!

Also you might to use even more sugar to carb as hefe should be carbed higher.

I use beer smith to calculate how much dme to add, and carb to 3 volumes.

doctorRobert said:

If you want to be traditional, brew another batch on bottling day and add some of that wort to your beer at bottling.

Or you could save some wort, and use that.

Or use corn sugar or dme. I think dme would suit you well.

No risk of bottle bombs due to yeast, its the sugar content that's important there.

And yes, serve mit hefe (with yeast)

Good luck!

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doctorRobert said:

Also you might to use even more sugar to carb as hefe should be carbed higher.

I use beer smith to calculate how much dme to add, and carb to 3 volumes.

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Thanks! I think I will go the DME route, as I will have extra on hand anyways. I plan to take plenty of pictures, so I'll post them up after brew day.

Brewed this yesterday. For the second time in a row my efficiency was terrible with this brew although better this time. OG around 1.042, however I did end up with a little over 6 gallons. Probably should have boiled a bit longer. No matter, this thing was awesome the first time and it looks damn good right now. Bubbling within 5 hours and 2 inch thick kraus next morning. Rock on, thanks again Ed

For those of you bottling, are you still only fermenting 10 days and crash cooling?

I also got poor efficiency (worse than my normal poor efficiency) , my theory is because the difference in size between the wheat and barley maybe my crush was too coarse. I also mashed for 60 min, so that could have been it too. What is the idea between a 90 minute mash for this recipe? I always thought 60 was fine unless below 150f. Does it have to do with the wheat?

I want that authentic Banana/Clove Hefe.

Bookmarked. Thanks Ed. I'll use your recipe to the "T"!

Anyone ever try adding any honey malt to this?

Took a sample last night, 7 days old, 1.012 so coming along nicely. To be honest the smell was pretty bad, VERY estery, but the taste was surprisingly smooth with a very pleasant / distinct banana and clove. Fermenting right at 65. I think this will turn out very nice

I'm planning on brewing this, this coming Sunday. Thanks for the recipe Ed. I'll also be using Red Wheat as that's what my LHBS carries. I'll be following the recipe pretty much 100%. Thanks for posting!

I just brewed this tonight for the second time. My first batch was watered down probably due to a 1.022 FG and a 10 day fermentation period. This time around I'm going to let it ferment for 2-3 weeks. My question is should I ferment at the high range for this yeast (72-75 F for wyeast 3068) in order to get some of the banana, fruity flavor? TIA.

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bmason1623 said:

I just brewed this tonight for the second time. My first batch was watered down probably due to a 1.022 FG and a 10 day fermentation period. This time around I'm going to let it ferment for 2-3 weeks. My question is should I ferment at the high range for this yeast (72-75 F for wyeast 3068) in order to get some of the banana, fruity flavor? TIA.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Home Brew Talk

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this is 1 of my haus brews (many thanks to ed). yes, the higher, the more banana

lumpher said:

this is 1 of my haus brews (many thanks to ed). yes, the higher, the more banana

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I disagree.

I think its all about the pitching temp. You have to pitch low - 60's or below and let it ramp up. I pitched at 60 and fermentation got up to 67 and had more banana than when i pitched and fermented around 70.

bmason1623 said:

I just brewed this tonight for the second time. My first batch was watered down probably due to a 1.022 FG and a 10 day fermentation period. This time around I'm going to let it ferment for 2-3 weeks. My question is should I ferment at the high range for this yeast (72-75 F for wyeast 3068) in order to get some of the banana, fruity flavor? TIA.

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I only get mine down to the 70s before pitching and my temp probe for my controller gets taped to the side of the bucket and set to 68 degrees and I get plenty of banana esters.

No need to wait 2-3 weeks to ferment. 10 days max, but you can keg in 7 easy. That's the beauty of German Hefe's, they are are quick from pitch to pour. Two weeks max.

Thanks to everyone who answered my question. I brewed it last night and less than 24 hours later it's bubbling like crazy. I do have it fermenting in a slightly warmer room than last time. Also, I mashed at a higher temp (157) to get a fuller bodied brew than last time. I'll pull a gravity sample in 7 days and see where it is. Think I'm going to prime a keg with corn sugar instead of co2. I can hardly wait!

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Yet another question from me (sorry!). If a hefewizen is bottled, it's recommended that the bottle be rolled to rouse up the yeast prior to serving. But what if it's kegged? Should the keg be roused prior to tapping and dispensing? This seems to make sense to me. Anyone? Thanks.

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bmason1623 said:

Yet another question from me (sorry!). If a hefewizen is bottled, it's recommended that the bottle be rolled to rouse up the yeast prior to serving. But what if it's kegged? Should the keg be roused prior to tapping and dispensing? This seems to make sense to me. Anyone? Thanks.

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This is a matter of personal taste. If your hefe starts to clear up, then give the keg a jiggle. Or if you want more yeast/taste, do a pre-emptive jiggle.

I just brewed this yesterday. My beer software miscalculated my evaporation rate/trub loss/etc so I overshot my preboil volume by a gallon (I should have noticed this, but was just too excited to brew!). Anyway, I still ended up with a 77% efficiency, but definitely had a lower OG than expected. 4 points lower than the bjcp style guidelines; 1.040.

I ended up with 6.75 gallons of fermentable wort of which I used only about 5.5 gallons into the carboy. Pitched a 1.2L starter @ around 70F. Fermentation started in 5 hours!!! This yeast is going NUTS! I've already had to empty the blow off bucket (which overflowed). It's fermenting away happily at 69-70F and smelling delicious already.

Hoping I get around 77%+ attenuation to get the FG lower and bump the ABV up. We'll see. I think despite sparging too much into the kettle, I'm still gonna end up with a solid brew. I'll be re-brewing this soon though with 1 gallon less in the kettle and all should be good

EdWort said:

NO, please use a German noble hop if you want an authentic Bavarian Hefe. I used Tettanger last weekend since I did not have hallertau hops.

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Ed, how was it with Tettanger? I have a pound of that, but no Halertauer.

julian81 said:

I just brewed this yesterday. My beer software miscalculated my evaporation rate/trub loss/etc so I overshot my preboil volume by a gallon (I should have noticed this, but was just too excited to brew!). Anyway, I still ended up with a 77% efficiency, but definitely had a lower OG than expected. 4 points lower than the bjcp style guidelines; 1.040.

I ended up with 6.75 gallons of fermentable wort of which I used only about 5.5 gallons into the carboy. Pitched a 1.2L starter @ around 70F. Fermentation started in 5 hours!!! This yeast is going NUTS! I've already had to empty the blow off bucket (which overflowed). It's fermenting away happily at 69-70F and smelling delicious already.

Hoping I get around 77%+ attenuation to get the FG lower and bump the ABV up. We'll see. I think despite sparging too much into the kettle, I'm still gonna end up with a solid brew. I'll be re-brewing this soon though with 1 gallon less in the kettle and all should be good

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As of last night it's already down to 1.009, putting it at 4.09%. This is attenuating quicker and nicer than I could hope. I think it's gonna turn out nicely.

elproducto said:

Ed, how was it with Tettanger? I have a pound of that, but no Halertauer.

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Tasty too. It's not a Bavarian hop, but it's still a great German Noble Hop from Baden Wurttemberg region close to the Bodensee and the Swiss border.

I use both, just remember to keep them late additions like in my recipe.

EdWort said:

Tasty too. It's not a Bavarian hop, but it's still a great German Noble Hop from Baden Wurttemberg region close to the Bodensee and the Swiss border.

I use both, just remember to keep them late additions like in my recipe.

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Awesome thanks.

I brewed this as part of a club brew for an upcoming charity event on Sunday (3/27/11). Same exact recipe with the only difference being 4 oz of carapils and 4 oz of caramunich thrown in the mash too. I used WLP300 for the yeast w/a starter. Did an iodine test and was good to go at about 70 minutes into the mash, so I stopped there.

Funny thing was, I ended up with a much higher than expected starting gravity (1.068). That seems to be quite on the extreme high side for a hefeweizen - more like off the BJCP charts...I know it's just going to charity, but I've been entertaining thoughts of making this into a Weizenbock by using a secondary with some sinamar and/or pasturized raisins.

Thoughts? 1.068 - I still can't figure that out. My usual eff is 75%. This time was 82%. Could be the grains? I used German Wheat & German Pils.

Was curious if you would reccomend Hallertau Mittlefruh or Hallertau Hersbrucker for this recipe - I have both and plan on doing a double.

Thanks!

Oh yeah, for my double I was simply going to X2 everything. Any issue with that?


14# German Wheat
8# German Pils
.1# Rice Hulls (if needed to prevent stuck mash)

Mash for 90 minutes at 153 degrees.

1.5 Hallertau @ 45
.5 Hallertau @ 15

Aah, finally kegged mine last night after about 15 days in the bucket. It's a good feeling to go from no beer to 2 full kegs. (The other is an Old Speckled Hen on steroids.) When I peaked in the fermenter, it looked like there was a lot more activity than there was. I took a reading and got ~ 1.012, which was good. I think this is my third brewing. I really wanted to make this because I finally got some of the right glasses at my tour of the Harpoon brewery on my brother's birthday last month.

The hefe from the gravity sample tasted great. I still had some funky off odors from the yeast or (?) I thought that I had fermented at too low a temp, but it should be fine. I brought it to a warmer room the second week. I added 2 pints of gyle as I feel that gives me a creamier head. So I guess a week or 2 of warm conditioning, then cool and a little more CO2 if needed and I should be good to go. The first time I made this I got addicted to pairing this up with cherries.

Brewin' this badboy tomorrow Ed. Gotta use this cool weather to produce a tasty hefe before the sweltering summers kick in.

I am going to brew this Tuesday, and have a few questions. I am going to pick up all the ingredients at my local HBS, Northern Brewer Milwaukee.

1. Do I use German Hallertau or Hallertau Mittelfruh?
2. Would anyone advise me not to add 1/2 oz of crushed coriander in the last 15min of the boil in a german hefe? I want to make it without but my wife wants to drink this and she wants me to add the coriander.

Thanks!
Justin

idigg said:

I am going to brew this Tuesday, and have a few questions. I am going to pick up all the ingredients at my local HBS, Northern Brewer Milwaukee.

1. Do I use German Hallertau or Hallertau Mittelfruh?
2. Would anyone advise me not to add 1/2 oz of crushed coriander in the last 15min of the boil in a german hefe? I want to make it without but my wife wants to drink this and she wants me to add the coriander.

Thanks!
Justin

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Hi Justin, I don't know the difference between the 2 hops. As to the second question, if this is your first time brewing with this type of yeast, I would try it w/o the coriander. Or try a recipe that calls for coriander. But I don't live with your wife....

I just bottled mine last night - finished up at 1.014 from 1.068 (7.1% ABV).

It didn't taste like it though - sample was extremely good and maybe just a tinge warm on the back end. I'm excited at how this turns out.

I just finished listening to the Jamil Z show about Bavarian Weizen, and he said not to re-use/repitch the Hefe yeast. Sometimes I think Jamil is just trying to sell more White Labs, but wondered if anyone has successfully washed and repitched the Wyeast 3068.

elproducto said:

I just finished listening to the Jamil Z show about Bavarian Weizen, and he said not to re-use/repitch the Hefe yeast. Sometimes I think Jamil is just trying to sell more White Labs, but wondered if anyone has successfully washed and repitched the Wyeast 3068.

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They also say that if your wort gravity is above like 1.050 never wash your yeast and reuse. I use burton yeast on my IPA's brown ales, pale ales. I washed my burtons 5-6 times with all the batches with gravities above 1.060. No flavor or viability issues.

i.e. my opinion is wash it and re-use it. I think the are trying to make the sponsors happy (sell more). I plan on doing a heffe soon. For once my gravity will be klow, you can bet I will be washing it.

elproducto said:

I just finished listening to the Jamil Z show about Bavarian Weizen, and he said not to re-use/repitch the Hefe yeast. Sometimes I think Jamil is just trying to sell more White Labs, but wondered if anyone has successfully washed and repitched the Wyeast 3068.

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I've reused Hefe yeast twice, both times with poor results, while I experienced great results with other strains. The beers just lacked a lot of flavor. Probably over pitched, and there wasnt a lot of ester production.

doctorRobert said:

I've reused Hefe yeast twice, both times with poor results, while I experienced great results with other strains. The beers just lacked a lot of flavor. Probably over pitched, and there wasnt a lot of ester production.

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Did you pitch based on Mr Malty? i.e. what was your pitch rate?

CidahMastah said:

Did you pitch based on Mr Malty? i.e. what was your pitch rate?

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Nope. I pitched about an inch of slurry from a mason jar. I cannot reasonable estimate the cell count and therefore do not try, but pitch what I think would be a reasonable amount that I would get from making a starter or a little bit more.

But you question the man's ethics regarding re-pitching the yeast, but still want to use his calculator? Perhaps his calculator is off too to sell more white labs vials. He recommends repitching for all other styles so I highly doubt he says this to please his sponsors or he would say it for all strains.

I think the bigger issue is how you are harvesting the yeast. I harvested the yeast from the bottom of the primary fermenter. Next time, I'm going to setup a blow off tube into a sanitized jar, and use that yeast. I think I might get better results doing it that way, and is more in line how the pros do it, by top cropping.

doctorRobert said:

But you question the man's ethics regarding re-pitching the yeast, but still want to use his calculator? Perhaps his calculator is off too to sell more white labs vials. He recommends repitching for all other styles so I highly doubt he says this to please his sponsors or he would say it for all strains.

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The reason I enjoy the forums is that you can learn from the very powerful and real "personal experience" and not hearsay. I offered my personal experience to the asker, and so did you. Not sure why you get touchy about how you think I ethically challenged jamil at this point
Anyway, Jamil very well could have a point. However this one I will try out for myself since my washing experience has been contrary to what he is reporting (Jamil also says not to wash yeast cakes after a high gravity beer).

My question to Jamil would be. If you can’t use the strain twice, how has it ever been reproduced with integrity? This just doesn’t make good sense to me, though I could be wrong.

doctorRobert said:

I think the bigger issue is how you are harvesting the yeast. I harvested the yeast from the bottom of the primary fermenter. Next time, I'm going to setup a blow off tube into a sanitized jar, and use that yeast. I think I might get better results doing it that way, and is more in line how the pros do it, by top cropping.

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Anyway - agree with you on the harvesting method being important. I have since switched to making starters from fresh yeast on the front end, stepping them up (using guidelines from palmers book). I now also use extra low gravity wort from my mash. I *think* this yeast should be more viable and cleaner than washing off a yeast cake from a previous batch. However I don’t have a bad experience doing it the other way.

I actually don't use his calculator, was just curious why you thought you over pitched, and if Malty calc was your baseline I woudl suggest that is a very high pitch rate. Usually over pitching to the point that it has adverse effects is tough to do. I do know I read somewhere something like 20 billion cells per gram of yeast. Hell that might have even been on the Mr. Malty site.

Anyway, I can offer this personal experience. I have switched to 10G batches and have been using washed yeast from 5 gallon extract batches (yeast cake split into 4 jars - don't know how much yeast that is, but comparable to a WL vial). So 1 jar into a .5 quart starter with .5 cup DME letting that go for about 12 hours. I have had no issues with yeast funkiness, or bad beer. Many people claim reusing yeast from higher gravity beers is not a good idea (including Jamil). I have never had a bad experience with this. According to Mr. Malty this pitch rate is unreasonably low....

CidahMastah said:

The reason I enjoy the forums is that you can learn from the very powerful and real "personal experience" and not hearsay. I offered my personal experience to the asker, and so did you. Not sure why you get touchy about how you think I ethically challenged jamil at this point
Anyway, Jamil very well could have a point. However this one I will try out for myself since my washing experience has been contrary to what he is reporting.
My question to Jamil would be. If you can’t use the strain twice, how has it ever been reproduced with integrity? This just doesn’t make good sense to me, though I could be wrong.

Anyway - agree with you on the harvesting method being important. I have since switched to making starters from fresh yeast on the front end, stepping them up (using guidelines from palmers book). I now also use extra low gravity wort from my mash. I *think* this yeast should be more viable and cleaner than washing off a yeast cake from a previous batch. However I don’t have a bad experience doing it the other way.
I actually don't use his calculator, was just curious why you thought you over pitched, and if Malty calc was your baseline. Usually over pitching to the point that it has adverse effects is tough to do. I do know I read somewhere something like 20 billion cells per gram of yeast. Hell that might have even been on the Mr. Malty site.
Anyway, I can offer this personal experience. I have switched to 10G batches and have been using washed yeast from 5 gallon extract batches (yeast cake split into 4 jars - don't know how much yeast that is, but comparable to a WL vial). So 1 jar into a .5 quart starter with .5 cup DME letting that go for about 12 hours. I have had no issues with yeast funkiness, or bad beer. Many people claim reusing yeast from higher gravity beers is not a good idea (including Jamil). I have never had a bad experience with this.

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I misread what was previously posted on the forum by a different member, who suggested JZ just wants to sell more yeast. I apologize if you felt that I was attacking you or anything...

I think propagating yeast to create "fresh yeast" like what we would get from Wyeast or White labs and repitching yeast that went through a full beer fermentation must be very different processes. From what I read (brewing with wheat, and Warner's German wheat beer), german breweries crop the yeast during high krausen and still only repitch this x amount of times.

doctorRobert said:

I misread what was previously posted on the forum by a different member, who suggested JZ just wants to sell more yeast. I apologize if you felt that I was attacking you or anything...

I think propagating yeast to create "fresh yeast" like what we would get from Wyeast or White labs and repitching yeast that went through a full beer fermentation must be very different processes. From what I read (brewing with wheat, and Warner's German wheat beer), german breweries crop the yeast during high krausen and still only repitch this x amount of times.

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No problem - I figured whatever it was it wasn't worth a tiff , probably a misunderstanding. thanks for noting that though.

When it comes to wheat wheat I am still learning. You could likely have a great point. Likely do! I guess this warrants some more research from my end as well before I go forth willy nilly

I haven't looked into the yeast capturing process for this strain, didn't even know there would be a difference. thanks for the info

My comment about JZ selling more yeast was a joke.. I like the guy and he's always responded to my emails.