Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

CornyKegs 728
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Chug said:
Nice to hear. Which recipe did you go with? Did you use the capella graham cracker extract?
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I went with gwdlaw's recipe on page 20 and I did use the capella graham cracker extract. That recipe called for a tsp of it and after hearing about all the bad metallic after tastes I only put 2 drops in the secondary. I cracked one open about two weeks after bottling because I couldn't wait any longer and it has a very nice subtle hint of the graham cracker and with no metallic after taste. I'd recommend being very conservative with that stuff.
 
WestNittany118 said:
I went with gwdlaw's recipe on page 20 and I did use the capella graham cracker extract. That recipe called for a tsp of it and after hearing about all the bad metallic after tastes I only put 2 drops in the secondary. I cracked one open about two weeks after bottling because I couldn't wait any longer and it has a very nice subtle hint of the graham cracker and with no metallic after taste. I'd recommend being very conservative with that stuff.
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Yes, I was one of the unfortunate ones to use too much of that stuff. I brewed mine back in late June and it's actually finally starting to calm down but still has a little metallic twang to it. I'll personally never use that stuff again, even the smallest amount.
 
I changed a few things with the recipe (very minor), and added a box of crushed graham crackers to the mash in my third attempt at this. It won it's category (over 30 in the flight) in my local home brew contest and placed second in best of show out of about 340 total entries. It's not Southern Tier, but it's still damn good! Brew on!
 
stblindtiger said:
I changed a few things with the recipe (very minor), and added a box of crushed graham crackers to the mash in my third attempt at this. It won it's category (over 30 in the flight) in my local home brew contest and placed second in best of show out of about 340 total entries. It's not Southern Tier, but it's still damn good! Brew on!
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I did the same thing with the box of graham crackers. After tasting the extract, I got scared off. I definitely get that elusive taste in my beer now, though I had lots of issues during fermentation. Congrats on the win!
 
cotillion said:
I did the same thing with the box of graham crackers. After tasting the extract, I got scared off. I definitely get that elusive taste in my beer now, though I had lots of issues during fermentation. Congrats on the win!
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So you're saying mashing with Graham crackers was a good thing right? Makes sense to me.
 
Has anybody considered Vanilla Chai Tea bags in the secondary?

This is purely coincidental but I prepared this tea for my fiance over the weekend while I was having a pumking. I couldn't help but notice how similar the aroma of the two were (dry tea bag & Pumking).

It's too late for me to try this but I'd consider it an alternative for anybody willing.
 
Just an FYI for anyone who finds they have to buy a lot of pumpkins for this, cushaw "squash"(or gourds or whatever you happen to think they are) are what's used as pumpkin pie filling commercially. So if you buy Libby's pumpkin pie filling, it's actually cushaw. Cushaw can be bought more cheaply and provides a lot more meat than does pumpkin. My secret is to buy a cushaw with a long neck and small body because then there are fewer seeds(the neck typically doesn't have seeds) and it's lots easier to cut up and roast.

Just a quick tip for anyone who wants to make a lot of this stuff.
 
Hello everyone. I know it's very early to be brewing this gem but pumking is one of my favorite beers. This will be my very first all grain brew and I want to get it right before october rolls around. I know I wont be able to find pumpkins so I will use puree. I had a quick question with the recipe on page 20. I was wondering how much water I start out with in the mash and how much to add when sparging. With all grain do you still add the 2 gallons of cold water at the end into the primary like you do with extracts?

Thanks for any help in advance!
 
Greg83 said:
Hello everyone. I know it's very early to be brewing this gem but pumking is one of my favorite beers. This will be my very first all grain brew and I want to get it right before october rolls around. I know I wont be able to find pumpkins so I will use puree. I had a quick question with the recipe on page 20. I was wondering how much water I start out with in the mash and how much to add when sparging. With all grain do you still add the 2 gallons of cold water at the end into the primary like you do with extracts?

Thanks for any help in advance!
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For mash water, pick a mash thickness between 1.0 quarts/lb and 2.0 quarts/lb. I usually do 1.25 quarts/lb.

Then take your total grain weight and multiply by mash thickness. That's the volume of mash water you need.

For sparge water, calculate grain absorption with 0.125 quarts/lb of grain weight. This is how much water the grain will "drink." Subtract this from your mash water and the result should be what you can expect from your first runnings.

Subtract first runnings volume from your desired pre-boil volume and you've got your sparge volume.

This is calculating a full boil, so no, you don't add water to primary like with extract. At the end of the boil you should have your full volume.
 
I just thought the grain bill amount differs with sparge and no sparge brewing. I am trying to figure out how much water to add. All the calculators I've seen have sparge amounts. This is my first all grain batch and third total so I'm pretty new to the game.
 
Just thought I'd weigh in and update. It's been a while since I brewed - my details are a few pages back but I based off the one on something like page 22. I ran into a couple of problems with mashing too high because I wasn't paying attention, so it didn't dry out as much as it should have.

That said, even if I had gotten that part right, the recipe is still a far cry from Pumking. It tastes good and pumpkiny, but it lacks something I can't identify - and it lacks it a lot. I mashed with a box of graham crackers too, which did help a lot with my beer's aroma, but it was not a Pumking clone at all. Back to the drawing board.
 
cotillion said:
Just thought I'd weigh in and update. It's been a while since I brewed - my details are a few pages back but I based off the one on something like page 22. I ran into a couple of problems with mashing too high because I wasn't paying attention, so it didn't dry out as much as it should have.

That said, even if I had gotten that part right, the recipe is still a far cry from Pumking. It tastes good and pumpkiny, but it lacks something I can't identify - and it lacks it a lot. I mashed with a box of graham crackers too, which did help a lot with my beer's aroma, but it was not a Pumking clone at all. Back to the drawing board.
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Had this on tap last week, bar musta been hoarding it. It is thin, mostly crust and vanilla/whipped cream taste. It was said earlier a high level of diacetyl was detected, I'd agree.
 
sivdrinks said:
Had this on tap last week, bar musta been hoarding it. It is thin, mostly crust and vanilla/whipped cream taste. It was said earlier a high level of diacetyl was detected, I'd agree.
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What about adding some whipped cream vodka? There are a couple good ones out there that taste just like whipped cream.
 
My vanilla beans have been steeping in whipped cream vodka for 2 weeks now so hopefully that will add a nice touch. I mashed a box of graham crackers also but got a pretty low OG. It was supposed to be 1.083 but I got 1.070. I am hoping this number drops drastically to get a nice abv going.
 
Greg83 said:
My vanilla beans have been steeping in whipped cream vodka for 2 weeks now so hopefully that will add a nice touch. I mashed a box of graham crackers also but got a pretty low OG. It was supposed to be 1.083 but I got 1.070. I am hoping this number drops drastically to get a nice abv going.
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Let us know how it turns out
 
Just brewed a similar recipe up today (not trying to exactly clone southern tier as I've never tried the pumking) so it should be pretty darn swell in the fall. My first pumpkin ale! Thanks to HBT for all the pro advice

16 lb Marris O.
1 lb c-60L
0.5 lb victory
44 oz canned pumpkin (roasted at 350F for an hour then included in the mash)
Mashed around 152

1 oz magnum @ 60

@ 5 min I added 1 tsp fresh ground cinnamon, 1/2 tsp ground ginger, whole cloves, and fresh ground nutmeg.

Used washed 3rd gen 1056 from a 2L starter

OG was 1.087 for about 5.3 gals

Started 2 vanilla beans in some bourbon couple days ago so I'll add that when I bottle in a month or two.

Only other comments are USE rice hulls, I forgot to get them and draining my mash tun took an eternity! It's gonna pay off though my post boil taste showed great promise.
 
Now I am a very new Home-Brewer, with probably a very easy-to-answer question. But is there an easy way to convert this recipe (the original post) to an extract recipe instead of a whole grain as it is the only way I have brewed before? I don't have a problem with trying all grain, but even if I could down-size this batch to about 5 gal. final I would be happy. I just honestly don't know conversion rates and haven't had much luck finding them either.
 
Andie_96 said:
Now I am a very new Home-Brewer, with probably a very easy-to-answer question. But is there an easy way to convert this recipe (the original post) to an extract recipe instead of a whole grain as it is the only way I have brewed before? I don't have a problem with trying all grain, but even if I could down-size this batch to about 5 gal. final I would be happy. I just honestly don't know conversion rates and haven't had much luck finding them either.
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Download a trial of beersmith 2, spend a few minutes watching tutorials on YouTube to set up your equipment and then plug in the all grain recipe, after you do that thou can have the software adjust the batch size and make it extract!
 
Andie_96 said:
Now I am a very new Home-Brewer, with probably a very easy-to-answer question. But is there an easy way to convert this recipe (the original post) to an extract recipe instead of a whole grain as it is the only way I have brewed before? I don't have a problem with trying all grain, but even if I could down-size this batch to about 5 gal. final I would be happy. I just honestly don't know conversion rates and haven't had much luck finding them either.
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i brewed an extract version about 9-10 months ago. the difference were 8.5 lbs of Light DME instead of the 14 lbs of american 2row. i couldn't find any pumpkins yet so i baked 2 cans of Libbys and put 1/2 of it in the muslin bag while steeping the Crystal and Victory, then 1/4 of it in a muslin bag at 30 minutes left, and the last 1/4 of it i mixed directly in the wort with 5 minutes left. 1 tsp of ground cinnamon instead of the sticks. Turbinando Sugar instead of Demerera. 1 packet of S-05. everything else the same.
it tasted amazing when i put it in the fermenter. The one thing i F'ed up on was the Vanilla, I put too many vanilla beans into some Flor De Cana rum, and when i added that as a "dry hop" 2 weeks later it made it extremely sweet. i think the rum added to that as well.
anyway it took like 3-4 months to carb up and at that point was still not good. too much vanilla flavor. Its decent now. The vanilla/Rum has faded but its still too sweet. If i was trying to brew a Vanilla/Rumpkin ale, people would think its good, so thats what i tell em! but as a southern tier clone, its not as good. just too sweet. the graham extract may have added to that wierd sweetness too.
so my advice would be to be careful with the additions. better to use less than more. and i would suggest 2 packets of dry yeast, i only used one.
if i were to brew it again, which may be while bc i live in nicaragua now and the homebrew supply stores dont exist, i would cut out the vanilla and graham cracker. and it would be a damn good pumpkin brew. a good beer is better than an OK clone.
 
i tried the capella extract at various levels and didn't find one i liked. i'd be happy to send the little bottle off to someone else since there's plenty left for another few attempts. i'd rather send to someone who hasn't made this yet. i'll check my PMs tomorrow.
 
Hey,

I realize that this topic hasn't been posted on in a while, but with fall right around the corner, you know people are going to be thinking Pumking Clone. Several posters throughout the years have commented on the Diacetyl character of Pumking, while others have denied such flavor. I fall into the former group. There is definitely Diacetyl. Sources close to ST have confirmed this with a wink and nod :p. I don't think the Diacetyl is coming from process (high ferm temp). I'm thinking it's yeast. Ringwood strain? I think that, along with the various flavor concoctions added to it create that signature Pumking flavor.

Anyone with me?
 
I toured ST and got the tour guide to confirm the strong presence of Diacetyl in Pumking.

So if you don't detect it in Pumking you probably just are not sensitive to it. Or you're lying to yourself. Or you secretly work for Southern Tier and you're playing a very cruel joke on all of us.
 
TyTanium said:
Yes.

I used WY1469 and got some buttery crust flavor, at least early on:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/southern-tier-pumking-clone-191381/index43.html#post4425738
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So, based on my convos with ST folks, I think for this fall's clone, I'm sticking with the standard ingredients (he very strongly suggested using Sterling hops, as noted on the bottle), mashing very high -- 156 maybe (he suggested mashing high, but didn't get into temp specifics), and I think I'm going to use Ringwood and cold crash it once I hit FG to prevent the yeast from absorbing the buttery goodness.
 
waldzinator said:
Hey,

I realize that this topic hasn't been posted on in a while, but with fall right around the corner, you know people are going to be thinking Pumking Clone. Several posters throughout the years have commented on the Diacetyl character of Pumking, while others have denied such flavor. I fall into the former group. There is definitely Diacetyl. Sources close to ST have confirmed this with a wink and nod :p. I don't think the Diacetyl is coming from process (high ferm temp). I'm thinking it's yeast. Ringwood strain? I think that, along with the various flavor concoctions added to it create that signature Pumking flavor.

Anyone with me?
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. Sometimes I don't think enough people realize the complex variations that can occur simply by playing with different yeast strains.
 
I just ordered all the grains for TWO batches of this stuff. Hopefully I'll hit the magic mark with the extract/spice ratio. The latest trend seems to suggest the Ringwood yeast is responsible for the graham crust taste, and not the extracts. Any thoughts/confirmations?
 
What version of the recipe is everyone going with nowadays? I brewed the recipe on post 190ish last year. In my opinion, it was a good beer, but by no means would I consider it a clone. My friends preferred what I had made over pumking. I think the price point had a lot to do with it though. When something is free it's tastes much better.

I followed the recipe pretty close. Made a couple revisions, but not much. I would call them tweaks.

Any good success or failures of notable magnitude before I proceed with purchasing ingredients? Any ideas are appreciated. I will be making some form of a pumking clone regardless.
 
sivdrinks said:
Just don't use the graham cracker extract.
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+1 In mine it added a metallic taste and didn't add any graham cracker flavor. I have seen a thread about mashing Grahams. It may be easier to add a graham cracker rim to the glass if you really want it.
 
sivdrinks said:
Just don't use the graham cracker extract.
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+1. The metallic chemical flavor overwhelmed any graham cracker flavor. Bad stuff. Might fade with aging, but I have little interest in wasting beer to find out.
 
I used this recipe, with a few tweaks, and got to the second round of the AHA competition this year. It placed first in the NY regional first round, but got shut out in the second. The guy that came in second behind me in the regional placed third in the final round so it was right there. I cut back the lactose, added graham crackers to the mash, and used a fresh Peanut Pumpkin instead of canned or a regular Halloween pumpkin.

Can't wait for cooler weather and Pumpkin beer!
 
sivdrinks said:
Just don't use the graham cracker extract.
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Just thought I'd add to this. I brewed this last July (2012) and turned out horribly metallic and just plain bad thanks to the damned graham cracker extract.

I have too much heart to dump it so I still have about 40 bottles in my basement, hoping age would magically help make it drinkable. Put one in the fridge a few days ago thinking what the hell. Poured it tonight, dumped it down the drain. Even after a full year, though somewhat diminished, that damned extract is still holding strong. It's disappointing because I feel it would've been a good beer without it.

As far as cloning the real deal? Impossible, I think. Southern Tier almost has to have some sort of proprietary flavoring working the magic.
 

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