110v Recirculating eBIAB 2.5 gallon batches

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jbnla said:
I apologize if I have missed it. The many panel pictures are hard to distinguish the wire sizes. I have not seen any mention of the wire sizes used in the many panel builds. P-J indicated that only the wire to the element outlet and the contact and I assume the SSR # 1 & 2 need to be 12 gauge and the pump outlet wire 14 gauge. Am I correct in that assumption ?
Also the remaining wire to the rest of the switches can be what smaller gauge ? All 22 as Kal indicates or do most of you use larger sizes than his . I would appreciate any help before I get to wiring.
Click to expand...

Wire size depends on the amps that will be flowing through it. If your setup is being powered buy a 20a circuit then all wires that will be drawing that(contactor, element, ssr) should be 12g wire. The wires going to the pid and pump can be smaller 14g. For example my setup uses 30a so the ssr to contactor to element run 10g, 14g to the pid and pump with a 1a and 10a fuse used. I think using 22g is only for connecting the pid to the ssr but not necessary. I would stick with 12g for 20a and 14g for everything else. IMO
Hope this helps. Keep asking questions for anything your unsure of.
 
Thanks for the quick reply. I am trying to understand the wire size in relation to the fuses that you mention. Couldn't the wire on the down side on a one amp fuse be very small in relation to 14g and the same for a 10a could be maybe 16g safely ? I realize that for convenience all wire could be the same as long as it is larger than needed. Also on the plans that P-J posted for the OP build only shows two 1 amp fuses for E-stop and PID. Did you fuse the 10a pushbutton switches. Did you follow a different plan or do your own ?
 
jbnla said:
Thanks for the quick reply. I am trying to understand the wire size in relation to the fuses that you mention. Couldn't the wire on the down side on a one amp fuse be very small in relation to 14g and the same for a 10a could be maybe 16g safely ? I realize that for convenience all wire could be the same as long as it is larger than needed. Also on the plans that P-J posted for the OP build only shows two 1 amp fuses for E-stop and PID. Did you fuse the 10a pushbutton switches. Did you follow a different plan or do your own ?
Click to expand...

Instead of taking over this thread here's a link to my setup.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/different-e-brewery-380514/
I'll be happy to answer any questions about it there.
 
Wagon_6 said:
You use the Lowe's paint strainer bags, right? Going to brew the first 1.080+ beer on the system next weekend and I noticed with the basket, the mash gets thick with more than 6 #'s.
Click to expand...

Correct, I use the paint strainer bags from lowes.
 
Quick question for the pros...

This weekend at Home Depot I was looking at a 12 awg extension cord to "hack up" as has been done here. I find it interesting that right on the box/lable they state it is only approved for 15 amps. However, a minimum amount of research will tell you that 12 awg is approved for up to 20 amps. Any thoughts on this? My 2 cents - attorneys and CYA!
 
Jps101 said:
Quick question for the pros...

This weekend at Home Depot I was looking at a 12 awg extension cord to "hack up" as has been done here. I find it interesting that right on the box/lable they state it is only approved for 15 amps. However, a minimum amount of research will tell you that 12 awg is approved for up to 20 amps. Any thoughts on this? My 2 cents - attorneys and CYA!
Click to expand...
It is rated for 15A due to the Plug & Outlet used on the ends of the cable. The 20A Plug & Outlet have a completely different configuration in their layout.
 
P-J said:
It is rated for 15A due to the Plug & Outlet used on the ends of the cable. The 20A Plug & Outlet have a completely different configuration in their layout.
Click to expand...

Paul,

If I understand your response correctly, this would be a no-go for the set-up/diagram you provided in the original post?
 
The cable is A-Ok. It is properly rated for 20A. Regarding the cable plug: This is a picture of a 20A plug. You will see the difference right away.

20A plug:

20A-120V-plug.jpg


Hope this helps.

Edit:
15A plug:
MAR5266CR-LRG.JPG
 
P-J said:
The cable is A-Ok. It is properly rated for 20A. Regarding the cable plug: This is a picture of a 20A plug. You will see the difference right away.

NEMA%205-20P.jpg


Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Yep!

Saw those when I was looking for a 20amp plug...all is clear. As always thanks for sharing your wisdom!
 
CalypsoCowboy said:
jrb, curious as to what size plate chiller you have. I would imagine you don't need a large one for your batch size.
Click to expand...

Mine is the duda diesel 10 plate chiller. I would probably go 20 plate if I was to do it again, but only for future consideration. The 10 plate works fine for this batch size and was super cheap.
 
Im using the shirron but thinking of switching to a immersion chiller. Less loss and less mess in the kitchen
 
Great build! I am doing something very similar with these modification. 1) No pump switch as I already have a dedicated pump box. 2) A contactor for main power supply as this is going to be eventually upgraded to 240V and I light have a switch for main power.


With the adjustments mentioned above I have a few questions.

1) Can I connect 2 contactors together to tidy up wiring. What I mean by this is the first contactor will switch main power on. Then, as opposed to have having the power go from contactor 1 to the terminal strip then from the terminal strip to contactor 2 to control the element, can I have to power go from contactor 1 directly to contactor 2 then to the element? (I will also have a 14G wire go from contactor 1 to the terminal strip to power everything else.)

2) I read that on 120V system switching the neutral is not need and does not need to be hooked up to the contractors. Again this would clean up some wiring. Is this true?

3) Does the orientation of the contactors matter as far as line in and out, or does it just depend on how you wire it up?
 
jrb03 said:
Well I got everything completed and first brew done! I want to give PJ a big thank you for the drawing, it's exactly what I wanted. It was a true joy to brew on this system.

First, I got the element wired up. I decided to try using this 1 1/4" rubber coupling. Other than the weird smell, it seems to work great. I stole this idea somewhere on this forum. I found a male adapter that fits perfect in the coupling. I like the light at the female end of the extension cord I hacked up. Let's me see when the element is on.

cdafca0e.jpg


I decided to try BM's Cream of Three Crops for my first brew, sounds perfect for football season. Here is the system setup for mash in.

12a60a16.jpg


The recirculation works great, I overshot my og because I planned for 70% efficiency but got 79%. I also used my ugly junk corona mill for the first time.

7e86a862.jpg

a293b072.jpg

f8727f36.jpg


After a 10 min mashout at 170 it took 20 mins to get to a hard rolling boil. I left the PID at 100% manual mode and liked the boil strength for the 3.5 gallons. I boiled off .75 gallon an hour like in my water test last night. I think the 10" diameter pot is keeping the boil off rate low.

c4c28619.jpg


I forgot to take a pic of my plate chiller setup. It took about 10 mins to get from boiling down to 89' which is the ground water temp right now. I pumped into the better bottle and put it away in the ferm freezer to chill down.

e5d74749.jpg

d1ab0580.jpg


I checked it after 4 hours and I was down to 65'. Pitched half a pouch of US-05.

45ccaacd.jpg


Can't wait to brew again!
Click to expand...

Your Build has been a great service. Thanks
Did you ever change your element connection. ? How did you handle the ground to kettle on your rubber coupling? Your build and several listed in this thread have connections without a J box but some form of rubber or PVC coupling or cap. Those that solder are the only ones I could actually see in the pictures. I would appreciate any info and hopefully pics on your method.
 
hi folks - amazing thread. i will be building my system over the coming weeks/months and will be basing the mash temp control around P-J's design.

i am currently struggling with one issue: how would i modify the original design if i wanted to keep the pump out of the PID? I plan on constantly recirculating during the mash so no need for automated control. in the current design is there an option to put the pump on manual (i.e. always on)?

jCOSbrew said:
Ranco 1 stage temp controller can handle 15 amps w/ internal relay. This could be used for a basic setup, no control panel required.
Click to expand...
very useful tip, thanks. i had asked something similar about the Johnson A419 (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/johnson-a419-rims-388083/) and someone mentioned that "The Johnson only cycles on and off with a 2 degree swing, even set at its narrowest offset setting." so until i get my PID box built i might use a Ranco. i can use it for fermentation control once it's been replaced by the PID.

thanks everyone!
 
sweetcell said:
...
i am currently struggling with one issue: how would i modify the original design if i wanted to keep the pump out of the PID? I plan on constantly recirculating during the mash so no need for automated control. in the current design is there an option to put the pump on manual (i.e. always on)?

...
Click to expand...
The pump is independently controlled with its own switch. It does not and is not controlled in any way by the PID.
 
Hi Sweetcell,

Here is the post I was referring too. Hope it helps. Good luck with the build!


jammin said:
I finally figured out how to adjust power as a percentage in manual mode. This might be trivial to some, but was a little difficult for me to figure out. The manual seemed to leave out a piece of key info.. which is what I want to point out.



To run the PID in manual mode..

Hold SET down until you get into the parameter adjustments.

Click SET until you reach A-M.

Set A-M to 1.

- Now manual mode is enabled.

Click A/M to turn the the unit to manual mode and disengage PID functionality.

Click SET to change the display's set value (SV) from temperature to percentage.

Arrow up or down to adjust power output percentage.
Click to expand...
 
thank you P-J and jammin - much appreciated!

P-J said:
The pump is independently controlled with its own switch. It does not and is not controlled in any way by the PID.
Click to expand...
great, thanks. i feared that the pump was kicked into action at the same time as the element, i.e. when temps drifted below the set-point. glad to hear i was wrong about this.
 


I used this schematic minus the pump and every time I power on an element, I trip the breaker. Also, the first time I powered it up, both sides of my resistors started smoking. I have replaced the resistors but I'm still tripping the breaker. I have the resistor runs going to 1 and 2 of the E-Stop switch and the other side is the ground tied to 3 and 4. I have a small jumper wire going between 3 and 4 like in the schematic. I can attach pictures of my wiring if need be. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
cmw6300 said:
http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a4-2000w-BIAB-120V-E.jpg

I used this schematic minus the pump and every time I power on an element, I trip the breaker. Also, the first time I powered it up, both sides of my resistors started smoking. I have replaced the resistors but I'm still tripping the breaker. I have the resistor runs going to 1 and 2 of the E-Stop switch and the other side is the ground tied to 3 and 4. I have a small jumper wire going between 3 and 4 like in the schematic. I can attach pictures of my wiring if need be. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you have the E-stop button pressed and that you are not plugged into GFCI outlets if you are tripping breakers
 
I think I may have fried both of my element switches. When I push them neither one of them light up. Also, how long does the Auto Tune feature take? My controller just flashes back and forth from At to A1000 continuously.
 
cmw6300 said:
I think I may have fried both of my element switches. When I push them neither one of them light up. Also, how long does the Auto Tune feature take? My controller just flashes back and forth from At to A1000 continuously.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you have the sensor setting on the correct setting?
 
If there was a step-by-step on how to set up a 2352 PID that would be great. I have the instruction manual but it isn't too user friendly.
 
Well I have changed some of my settings to match what Kal has to no avail. My cool setting was incorrect which I changed to 10 so that is showing the correct reading now. Still, when I input a temperature the elements don't fire. The lights don't come on and I don't get any sound from the contacts. If there is anyone out there that thinks they could help me or if I should order some new switches I would greatly appreciate the input.
 
Do you have a Multimeter? If not, get one. You then use the 'ohm' scale to measure continuity for your wiring. This way you can test that the wiring is correct and also check the switches for their proper action and continuity when switched.

You then use the meter on voltage to check where and how power is being delivered. Without it you are just plain guessing. Something is not right and you need to find out what.
 
ekjohns said:
Great build! I am doing something very similar with these modification. 1) No pump switch as I already have a dedicated pump box. 2) A contactor for main power supply as this is going to be eventually upgraded to 240V and I light have a switch for main power.


With the adjustments mentioned above I have a few questions.

1) Can I connect 2 contactors together to tidy up wiring. What I mean by this is the first contactor will switch main power on. Then, as opposed to have having the power go from contactor 1 to the terminal strip then from the terminal strip to contactor 2 to control the element, can I have to power go from contactor 1 directly to contactor 2 then to the element? (I will also have a 14G wire go from contactor 1 to the terminal strip to power everything else.)
sorry not sure I follow

2) I read that on 120V system switching the neutral is not need and does not need to be hooked up to the contractors. Again this would clean up some wiring. Is this true?
light switches only switch the hot, same deal here.

3) Does the orientation of the contactors matter as far as line in and out, or does it just depend on how you wire it up?
doesnt matter.
Click to expand...
.
 
jbnla said:
Your Build has been a great service. Thanks
Did you ever change your element connection. ? How did you handle the ground to kettle on your rubber coupling? Your build and several listed in this thread have connections without a J box but some form of rubber or PVC coupling or cap. Those that solder are the only ones I could actually see in the pictures. I would appreciate any info and hopefully pics on your method.
Click to expand...

Nope still pressing my luck with the rubber coupling. I do take out my multimeter and ohm out the ground before each brew session. The ground wire is held against the element nut by the couplings clamp, best I can describe it. Soldering is the way to go.
 
cmw6300 said:


I used this schematic minus the pump and every time I power on an element, I trip the breaker. Also, the first time I powered it up, both sides of my resistors started smoking. I have replaced the resistors but I'm still tripping the breaker. I have the resistor runs going to 1 and 2 of the E-Stop switch and the other side is the ground tied to 3 and 4. I have a small jumper wire going between 3 and 4 like in the schematic. I can attach pictures of my wiring if need be. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have major issues with your wiring job. Please start a new thread, I'm sure you'll get more help.
 
Okay so I built mine using a 2000W element and a 10.5 gallon polarware pot (Diameter 15") and no dice. Even with insane insulation and lid 1/3 way on I will only get a simmer. Trying to decide now if it is worth sinking another $60 into a small skinny pot or just using this to mash and boil in a different pot with propane...

for those of you using the tall skinny 30 qt pots are you getting a soft or hard boil and what is your boil off rate (could you also please specify your wattage?)
 
cheesecake said:
Im getting a boil with the 2000 watt element and boiloff is .60 of a gallon a hour
Click to expand...

I am assuming the low boil off is cause the pot has a small diameter? How would you describe your boil? hard soft rolling violent?
 
Most on here have characterized their boil as not hard, but soft or medium, and are using 1600 or 2000 watt. Not sure how much water your trying to boil in the 10 gallon pot, but your not gonna boil much more than 4 or 4.5 gallons with a 2000 watt element. 3.5 is more ideal. This thread and build is for half batches. Full 5 gallon batch is gonna need 2 110v elements or 240v.
 
sorry I should have clarified that I was trying to make 2.5 gallon batches. I was just using my 10 gallon pot cause that is what I have. jrb03 what is your boil off rate? I would like to finish with 3 gallons so I can get 2.5 gallons in the keg after equipment loss. Do you think with 2000W and your pot from academy sports I could get a nice boil?
 
My boil off rate is about .5 gallon an hour. I bring about 3.25 gallons to a boil after mashing, and finish with about 2.75. My element is 1600 watt, so I see no reason why you couldn't do the same or better with a 2000 watt element. I would double check that everything is working properly.
 

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