10' 3/16" beer line, 14psi, foamy & flat. What gives?

Ok, so I used a combo of these 2 resources to try and balance my first kegged batch.

(preface, I rock/rolled @ 12psi, and then hit it with 20psi for a day to start off. This was well over a week ago, so I hoped any screwup has reached equilibrium)

Here, I determined that @ 38F, and 16psi, I would have a pretty good carb level @ 2.94vols. I'd like it a bit on the high side.

Ok, so then I went Here, and it says at 16psi I'd only need 7.75' of 3/16" beer line to be balanced.

I have 10' beer line as a result of majority recommendation when I was researching buying my keg kit. I just researched a bit more, and apparently the only thing having too long beer line would just result in a slower pour. I'm totally fine with that.


Well, @ 16psi, I get a full 16oz pint in about 3-4 seconds. I'm drinking out of a taller hefewiesen-type glass now (20oz glass I believe), and it still fills in about the same amount of time. 80% foam, 20% beer. And the beer is pretty flat.

So, experimenting, I backed the pressure down to 12-14 psi. I swear I think I'm getting more foam, and barely a slower pour.

Sanitized everything with star-san. Did not clean brand new lines with hot water (seen where that could potentially cause ripples in the line).

Have my beer line looped/coiled on the fridge door @ about the level of the top weld of the keg. Taps (perlick 525 chrome on SS shanks) approx 2' above keg center.


Now granted, I've had a few homebrews today while "experimenting", and I'm out of ideas. I thought the carbonation would equalize or get better with time, and I do believe I was more satisfied when I first tapped the keg. (either that, or I was just so excited to keg my first batch that I didn't care :fro


Any ideas on what gives?

Leave it sit on gas for a week at 12-14psi sounds like it is under carbed, next time hit it with 30psi to set the lid seal vent 2 times set it in the cold wait 12-24 hours hook up gas at 12-14psi wait 2-3 weeks and you will be happier with the results. Burst carbing never gets consistent results.

^will do. "set and forget" next one.

just not sure why this one is so foamy, with longer lines than the calc recommends.


Edit: also I counted after posting this thread, and it was a bit more than 3-4 seconds. More like 5-6, but still foamy as h*ll. I cranked the pressure back up to 16.

naga77777 said:

(preface, I rock/rolled @ 12psi, and then hit it with 20psi for a day to start off. This was well over a week ago, so I hoped any screwup has reached equilibrium)

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This confuses the crap out of me.. I need to do some reading before I start kegging.

FYI

Been kegging for about 6-7 months now. I also have 10 ft lines. Far from an expert, but I have gotten pretty consistent results from this method: Rack beer to keg, seal with 30 psi. let chill. Once cold, hit it with 30 psi for 36 hours. Vent keg and hook up serving pressure (in my case, 12 psi) I can usually drink and enjoy after 1 day at the serving pressure, but obviously it gets a little better over time

Vent keg and let sit overnight at 12 PSI. Make sure all of your serving lines are cooled. A significant drop in temp will cause the beer to foam. I also cool my mugs in he serving refrigerator. Be prepared to pull three consecutive mugs off. By the third mug you should have a good poor. Make sure you tilt your mug and let it run down the side. Do not poor to the center of the mug and splash the beer in. You should be good.

Also make sure you're opening the faucets 100% when you're pouring. I have to explain to everyone that touches my keezer, and half the time they still only open them part way.

Are your lines kept cold? What kind of setup do you have (tower, collar, etc.)? If you pour a couple beers in a row, is only the first pour foamy?

Thanks everyone. I have a standard fridge conversion with 3 taps on the door.

The beer lines are in the fridge, propped on the door (so they're cold) but my pint glasses usually start out room temp. If i drink one rather quickly, the glass is still a bit cool when i pull the next pint, but i didnt notice a difference in the pour. I havent tried pulling 3 or 4 back-to-back. Will try that tonight. I Always open/close faucets fully and quickly.

Roadliner, the rock/roll thing is what some people do to burst carb a keg quickly. Technically, they usually do it at higher than serving pressure. I did it at serving pressure to try and avoid overcarbing. I figured getting as much as i could into solution @ serving pressure would be a good "head start" and i wouldnt have to wait so long for the keg to fully carb. Basically you rock and roll the keg around under pressure, and you will hear co2 keep going in. Thats the co2 being absorbed into the beer. It will reach a point where it wont take anymore after a few min, and thats when you set it to serving pressure and let it sit for a while to equalize. Well, the next day i got impatient and put 20psi on the keg for 24hrs hoping to bump up the carb level some more. Most people serve @ 12psi.

For anyone that insists on doing elevated pressure acrobatics to carb faster, I highly recommend you buy yourself an extra gas QD and attach a standalone pressure gauge to it (make sure it's a 0-30psi range). Now when you can't figure out why it's foaming, you can attach the gauge assembly and let it sit for an hour to find out how many volumes of CO2 you have in the keg.

^so, reading between the lines here, are you saying it could be overcarbed and that's why its foaming?

I briefly entertained that notion, but figured it had been @ serving pressure long enough to stabilize. I also have vented/purged it 3 or 4 times, basically any time i wanted to decrease the regulator pressure. Could it have retained enough co2 in an overcarbonated beer to still be overcarbed after all this?

The cold temp will hold co2 in the beer. If you over carb your beer it is a difficult process to get the co2 already in the beer out. It is harder than just turning down the pressure and waiting a day. You really need to vent the pressure (vent all the pressure off), drop the pressure down half way below your target, wait a day, try your beer. Repeat venting daily or two to three times daily until the beer is serveable. Then turn the pressure back to your serving pressure.

Your experience sounds a lot like mine on my first kegged beer. All that rocking and setting the pressure high to burst carb is very difficult to do right. Every keg since I set the pressure to 12 PSI and wait 2-3 weeks. The beer is carbed after 2 weeks but I find it is better aged another week or two.

Its likely overcarbed as BobbyM alluded to. If you overcarb it, time is not going to allow it to stabilize. The amount of gas absorbed by the liquid is directly proportional to the amount of pressure in the gas space above it. The only way to then remove the gas from solution is to reduce the pressure in the headspace (vent it). Then, as gas comes out of solution, the pressure in the headspace increases until the vapor pressure equalizes again. Then you vent again. Its a pain in the ass. So to test out your issue, set the keg for 24 hours with the vent open and let the CO2 escape. Pour it at your desired pressure and see what happens. If its pouring well, good. Then recarb it at the proper pressure.

The best way to to carb is to have patience. Determine your desired carbonating pressure at the beginning (16 psi?). Set your keg at that pressure and leave it for a week or two (like bottling). If you need it faster, rock and roll at that pressure. You will not overcarb it. However, ifyou attempt to speed things up by raising the pressure to 20 psi, you run the risk of overcarbing and messing with it for a week to get the pressure back down. Not worth it.

Do yourself a favor and be patient...also ensure some other tips that were mentioned like the proper line length (which you have), operating the tap properly (full open), and ensuring a cold line (glass is not as important...frosty mug = bad). You may still get some foam or flatness in the initial pour, but then you'll be golden. As for line length, you are correct, you need enough line to add enough friction to slow the liquid down and not foam out. This slows the pour rate. If the pour rate gets to be waaay to slow, you can trim back the line length 4 inches at a time and test your pour to reach the desired length.

There are a ton of misconceptions on this forum and elsewhere about how to keg beer, but its all in the science. Burst carbing is unreliable and inconsistent. Having to drop your pressure to serve it is a symptom of lack of friction loss in the line (too short or too big). Micromatic has some good info on draft lines. Hope this helps you guys out.

Here, I determined that @ 38F, and 16psi, I would have a pretty good carb level @ 2.94vols. I'd like it a bit on the high side.

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10 feet of 3/16" ID line works well for beers around 2.5 volumes or lower when serving temperatures allow ~12 psi or less to hit that volume. Beer held at warmer temperatures - or higher carbed brews, like nearly 3 volumes - are going to require longer lines. Regardless of whether that keg has been overcharged, if ~3 volume brews are going to be a regular thing I'd lengthen the lines to around 15 feet...

Cheers!

We can wait 3-8 weeks for fermenting but feel the need to rush the carbing. Lucky I have 12 reasons I can wait

day_trippr said:

10 feet of 3/16" ID line works well for beers around 2.5 volumes or lower when serving temperatures allow ~12 psi or less to hit that volume. Beer held at warmer temperatures - or higher carbed brews, like nearly 3 volumes - are going to require longer lines. Regardless of whether that keg has been overcharged, if ~3 volume brews are going to be a regular thing I'd lengthen the lines to around 15 feet...

Cheers!

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Thanks everyone

I was actually going to come back and post that I tried the "toss a few" thing, and it worked! :rockin:

I pulled ~1/4 of a pint, all foam. Tossed it. Pulled an entire pint, 90% foam. Tossed it. The next pint came out great! 1" head, and hiiiiiighly carbonated.

Not sure if I'm still overcarbed at this point. If this is 2.94vols, I'm actually going to take the pressure down. This pint has a heckuva carbonic bite!

I've got an IPA that I'm gonna keg tomorrow, and just "set and forget". If it comes out as carbonated as this brew, I'll know to cut the pressure a bit.

If not, I'll know this one is just still overcarbonated, and I'll drink it like that till it kicks.

I used to even have that same problem with commercial beers bought a new taprite regulator and have not had a problem since could be your regulator??

^my reg does creep up a pound or two after i set it sometimes, but its a taprite :/

That little rise in could be just be a variable of the gauge not the regulator

Good to hear it worked. Cheers

Thanks Man

Well, the keg kicked today Just racked an IPA into another keg yesterday, and set it @ serving pressure.

Gonna be a lonnnng week waiting for that thing to carb.