American IPA Bell's Two Hearted Ale Clone (close as they come)

heh, nice label for your "Hoof Hearted IPA" there, DubbelDach. Strange, but pretty funny. Guess one has to have kids to understand fully...

Haven't seen Two Hearted beers around these parts, so I'll have to attempt this clone. For those who've had it, is it kinda similar to Stone's Ruination? Both rely heavily on centennial hops (exclusively for Two Hearted, Ruination uses Magnum for bittering).

To me it tastes a lot more citrusy than Ruination, but I'll crack open a bottle of both now and compare.

scopey said:

heh, nice label for your "Hoof Hearted IPA" there, DubbelDach. Strange, but pretty funny. Guess one has to have kids to understand fully...

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2 words: Family Guy!

Hulu - Family Guy: Crack Licker

Hulu - Family Guy: The Horse Is Here

scopey said:

Haven't seen Two Hearted beers around these parts, so I'll have to attempt this clone. For those who've had it, is it kinda similar to Stone's Ruination? Both rely heavily on centennial hops (exclusively for Two Hearted, Ruination uses Magnum for bittering).

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Two Hearted is made by Bell's... There aren't "Two Hearted beers". Just so you're not barking up the wrong tree!

joety said:

To me it tastes a lot more citrusy than Ruination, but I'll crack open a bottle of both now and compare.

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oh no you di'int! Or, if you did I wanna hear about it!

scopey said:

oh no you di'int! Or, if you did I wanna hear about it!

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I went to try and I'm out of Ruination.

eschatz said:

Thanks for the awesome review DD. I'm glad you like it. It's quickly becoming my house IPA. I agree that it needs to be lightly sweeter. Maybe bump the mash a little. I'll try that with my next batch.

Thanks for brewing it!!!!

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Bumping the mash may just do it... Hope I wrote down what temp I locked in at! Would a touch of malto-dextrin do anything positive?

As I think more about perceived "juciness" I had when tasting the Bell's, compared to the slight "harshness" of my hops... I am thinking I might back slightly off the 60 minute bittering addition, and dry hop more... Or maybe do the bittering addition at 30 instead of 60... Thoughts?

I am so scared everytime I pull one... I have to be very close to finishing it...

So I have mine kegged and will be putting it on gas and trying it in about 2 weeks, did an ounce of dry hop in the secondary and it came down to 1.013 so it's around 7.6% abv which is a bit high.

Darn it, I went to LHBS this weekend and picked up a few pounds of grains. I didn't make a list because it was a spur-of-them-moment kind of thing (needed a car part that I felt I was lucky to find in-state).

Anyway, I didn't get any vienna, and so that is the only thing I am missing to do this recipe. I better order it online and I can harvest some two-hearted while I'm waiting for it!

On a plus note, I DID pick up some two-hearted and Ruination while I was there, so I can do a comparison. Scratch that. I picked up some Ruination and some HOPSLAM!

I'm a wimp, so I better get some help comparing or I'll be in trouble.

Brewed eschatz recipe yesterday. While buying my supplies at the store yesterday the owner of the store told me to use SF-05 rather than Danstar Nottingham. He said the yeast counts were much greater. Nevertheless I used Nottingham. I have always used Wyeast or WL so this was my first venture with dry. Eschatz, any reason that you chose Nottingham over a traditional American Ale yeast like a WLP001 or WLP051 or the Wyeast 1056? Seems like a lot of the TH clones call for one of these America Ale yeasts. Just asking. I noticed you started with SF-04 and switched to Nottingham so maybe you have already been down this road.

I to am a huge TH fan and I'd love to nail this recipe. I have a TH extract clone on tap that turned out fair. I have a TH all grain on secondary. Used the same grain bill as eschatz but used a mix of Cent and Cascade hopes and WLP051. I got the Cent/Casc hop schedule from a post here that claimed they had talked to someone at the Bell's store.

Let's all continue to fine tune the TH until we really nail it. I'd love to have this on tap 365.

If you want to truly nail it, just propogate the yeast from a couple bottles of the real thing. That's what I did and I am very happy with the results.

I'll give propogation a try. Do you use a step method to propogate? I assume you use the grain bill and hop schedule outlined in eschatz recipe?

dmaher said:

I'll give propogation a try. Do you use a step method to propogate? I assume you use the grain bill and hop schedule outlined in eschatz recipe?

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Yes and Yes

I stepped it up once from 300ml to 1200ml after the first 48 hours, then went 48 more hours before pitching the yeast. I had violent fermentation when I woke up in the morning.

So from bottle culture to pitch allow 4-5 days? Culture Tuesday and brew on Saturday? Can the yeast be refrigerated after pitchable amount is obtained?

Just brewed this one up yesterday.. my pre-boil gravity was a bit on the low side (1.038 preboil -> 1.054 postboil) so i dropped my bittering addition down to keep the BU:GU in line... used the extra hops (.25 oz) in the flavor addition. I can't wait, I am sure this is going to be awesome!

I'm planning to try this recipe this weekend. Anyone did a comparison between Edwort's IPA with this one? One difference I noted is Vienna vs Munich. I have both, and I want to try this IPA to see the difference in malt flavoring.

dmaher said:

So from bottle culture to pitch allow 4-5 days? Culture Tuesday and brew on Saturday? Can the yeast be refrigerated after pitchable amount is obtained?

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That's about right. I don't know about refrigeration as I've never tried that.

Yes it can be refrigerated. I have a second gen, and another HBT member who I did a yeast "grant" to that told me this thing really took off and is aggressive.

Well I must say that Danstar Nottingham is a real "kicker". I have never had Wyeast or White Labs have such a feroucious fermentation. I'm slightly concerned about the fermentation temperature. The carboy is in the basement, around 68, degrees but the air inside is carboy is 74-75. I just don't want the banana smell as reported by others when using Danstar. I moved the carboy into the mechanical room where I might get another degree or two cooler to help keep temperature down. Lots of fun.

I ordered one of Darrin Roe's stir plates and I'll be cultivating from a TH bottle for my next batch.

Brewed this a month ago, got it carbing in the kegerator now. I'm afraid it will be gone before I get it fully carbed...it's REALLY good, and I've been double-sampling every time I take a hydro sample, or check the carbing.

So I was thinking I'd better get started on another batch, good thing I went to all the trouble to harvest the yeast from that sixer for the first batch and...doh!

Somehow, when I kegged the first batch, I got it in my head that the yeast was an already twice-used cake of S-05. No point in saving that, right? So down the drain it went

Oh, well, looks like I'll have to drink another sixer of the real deal

Anyway, I've never had a "regular" beer, but this might be it.

I've been hearing so many good things about this recipe I have to try it now...

I think I might brew this one and possibly Ruination as well... from Brew 365

FlyingHorse, what method did you use to cultivate? I haven't done this yet and I'm trying to educate myself before jumping. Similar to joety? I'd rather not have to use the Chris Colby Method,Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Story Index - Yeast - Yeast Culturing from Bottles: Techniques, if something easier works. If joetys method works and produces a quality beer I'm up for that. I know this hobby lends itself to being thorough but human nature always longs for the shortcut.

I'm so pumped that you guys are enjoying this beer. It was a real treat to put together and is so damn drinkable. Gotta keep refining it.

Keep brewing it up!

joety said:

If you want to truly nail it, just propogate the yeast from a couple bottles of the real thing. That's what I did and I am very happy with the results.

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Yeah I agree with this... I have a fairly similar clone recipe to this.. Could never get it spot on though until I actually took the yeast from a bells bottle. Not sure what strain they use but if it is one of the ones available to homebrewers it definitely has developed some house characteristics...

dmaher said:

FlyingHorse, what method did you use to cultivate? I haven't done this yet and I'm trying to educate myself before jumping. Similar to joety?

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Pretty much what joety did...I don't even have a stirplate. Just boiled and cooled a pint of 1.040 wort, and tosse it in a mason jar with the dregs of 4 bottles of Two hearted. gave it a shake every so often. After 24 hours there was a noticeable wisp of yeast in the jar; stepped it up to a quart, then 24 hours later to 2 quarts.

Still didn't look like as much yeast as I'd get from a similar starter on a WL or Wyeast pack, but it did the trick...took my 1.064 beer to 1.011 in about 5 days.

I think I have everything to do this except not sure if I have enough Vienna. Also, I have some Centennial, but probably not enough. Got lots of Cascade, though.

Do you think I should cut back the recipe for the Vienna, or just brew with as much as I have? (Maybe 1/2 required I think).

Also, what about Cascade hops? I might have 1/5 oz oz Centennial. Rest would be Cascade.

I'd like to brew tonight. Only day I can brew all week.

From what I've read, the yeast in Bell's Two-Hearted (and Brown Ale, and Amber Ale, etc.) is very similar to Wyeast 1272 American Ale II / WLP051 California V, sourced originally from Anchor Liberty. (Whether or not Bell's started out with 1272 or WLP051, I don't know.)

I haven't used the Wyeast/White Labs version that I can recall, but the Bell's version that Larry gave me took right off and immediately went to town on my Amarillo IPA. It's not done yet, but I expect good things.

Shoot. I forgot that one reason I was putting this one off for brewing today is that I just started the yeast harvest last night. I guess I'll be waiting until next week to do this one.

Maybe I'll do the APA recipe instead...

So going through the umpteen pages of this post. What is the latest AG recipe look like? This looks like a must brew!

depends at what brewhouse efficiency you are at... I calculated mine to 70%

70% BHE
1.066SG 5.8SRM
56.4 IBU
Mash at 151-152
11# 2 row pale us
2.5# Vienna
.5# Cara Pils
.5 Crystal 20L

Pellet hops used.
Centennial 8AA 60 Min 1 oz
Centennial 8AA 15 Min 1oz
Centennial 8AA 5 Min 1oz
Centennial 8AA 1 Min 1oz
Centennial 8AA Dryhop .5oz 5 days after primary fermentation

I was trolling the other 2hearted threads, and got some feedback on converting an AG to min-mash in another thread I started. This is where I landed, any feedback is appreciated:
Ingredients:
7.5 lbs Extra Pale LME
2 lbs Vienna Malt
1/2 lb Crystal Malt (20L)

Hop Schedule:
1.5 oz centennial 60 min
0.5 oz centennial 30 min
0.75 oz cascade 10 min
0.25 oz cascade at flameout
dry hop .75 oz centennial and 1.00 oz cascade for 9 days.
WLP051 (California V Ale).

gman, I did this one a month ago, taken from Northern Brewer, The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - Bell's Two Hearted clone.

It's a good beer but only 70% of a TH.

I'd stick with what you have just calculate the IBU's to make sure your in the 55+- range.

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 72.73 %
0.75 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 9.09 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 12.12 %
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 6.06 %
1.20 oz Centennial [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 32.6 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops -
0.80 oz Centennial [8.50 %] (20 min) Hops 13.1 IBU
2.40 oz Centennial [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 13.0 IBU
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale

This is the link, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bells-two-hearted-ipa-recipe-comments-52172/ , regarding comments about speaking to someone at Bell's regarding the hop schedule containing Cascades. I used this schedule in my TH version II, AG version 1, that will go to keg this Friday. I used eschatz grain bill but used that hop schedule and WLP051.

TH version III, AG version 1, is eschatz recipe on first page of this thread, in primary now.

TH version IV, AG Version 2, is scheduled for this weekend, eschatz recipe as listed on page one with TH cultivated bottle yeast.

Thanks dmaher! That last link is where I pilfered the hop schedule.

I did that one a few months ago, and unfortunately it had some kind of infection. Still tastes pretty good, though, actually, and I can see where it would have been pretty close to the real thing.

This looks awesome, I'll for sure put the AG recipe in the pipeline somewhere. If I don't find the time to harvest the yeast from bottles is the best bet still notty?

brokenanchor, i'm not sure there is a concensus on the "runner up" yeast. This is my first attempt with Notty and it's still in primary so I won't have my opinion for a few weeks. The recipe formulator, eschatz, tried S-04 on his first batch and then settled on Notty. joety and dubbeldach also brewed with the Notty and gave rave reviews. At this point those are the opinions.

Unless your brewing the exact same recipe and only changing yeast it's tough to tell. My extract was a Wyeast 1056, Ver. 2 I used WLP051 (different hop schedule), ver 3.0 Notty and ver 4.0 bells cultured. Other sites I have visted call for WLP001. WLP001, WLP051, Wyeast 1056 or Wyeast 1272 will all give you some decent version.

Notty is more differnt then anything in the California Yeast Group above so it will be interesting to see how it effects the outcome.

Again, other clones I have seen for TH swear by WLP001.

I am going to make this my 1st all grain batch when I make the step up in a month or so. I have a Bell's oberon clone in my fermentor now so will likely harvest the yeast since they use the same strains (to my knowledge)

I kegged,cooled and carbonated this one yesterday:

10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.92 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 15.38 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.30 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2.31 %
0.20 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1.54 %
1.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 12 days) Hops -
1.50 oz Centennial [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 37.7 IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 9 days) Hops -
0.75 oz Centennial [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 9 days) Hops -
0.75 oz Centennial [8.50 %] (30 min) Hops 14.5 IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [6.00 %] (10 min) Hops 4.8 IBU
0.25 oz Cascade [6.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.10 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) Yeast-Ale

The 9 day hop was in primary and much of the aroma was lost. The 12 day was a whole leaf hop. The beer is much better than my extract and much closer to TH. The whole leaf hops give the beer a really fresh aroma, which I like a lot and will undoubtedly do again, but it doesn't match the TH aroma. I'm very happy with the outcome. I have eschatz recipe going to secondary today.

It will be interesting to compare the cascade/centennial batch against the eschatz all centennial batch.

I can see when I get as close as possible to TH I will somewhat refine the recipe and call it a house beer. The whole leaf secondary dry hop is something I will keep or add to the final TH clone.

I was inspired by the great reviews of this beer as well as DeathBrewer's partial mash tutorial to attempt this beer as my first partial mash. Instead of buying the ingredients, I ordered a Two Hearted clone recipe kit from AHS. Let me know what you all think -

5.5# X Pale LME
2.5# 2-Row
0.5# Carapils
0.5# Munich
0.5# Crystal 20L

1.5oz Amarillo 60 min
1 oz Amarillo 15 min
0.5 oz Amarillo 5 min
0.5 oz Amarillo Dry Hop

I also bought 2 oz of Centennial leaf hops. Please let me know if I should add or omit anything, or what I should do in terms of hopping. I know I wont get it close to being a true clone, but at this point, I good IPA will do just fine.

Thanks!

Just racked eschatz recipe beer from primary to secondary. Gravity 1.009. Tastes very good at this point. Nottingham yeast did a very good job.

Corporate Crumb - I'm sure the recipe will work fine they way it is from AHS. They do a pretty good job. What are the AAU % of the hops? Add the whole hops with 10 days left in the fementing cycle. If you are only using one fermentor for say 21 days then add the whole hops on day 11. Are you using a carboy to ferment? What yeast came with the kit?

dmaher, thanks for the reply. The AAU% of the Amarillos are 8.6%. The Centennial Leaf are 9.1%.

My plan is to do a primary in a fermentor bucket, and then rack to a glass carboy and dry hop at that time. From what I have read here, that seems to be the best way to go.

I am using Nottingham yeast also.