Wheat beers... I give up

I have About 30 brews under belt all in the last 12 months and I have yet to have a single good wheat beer. 5 of these 30 were wheat beers. So when I say not good I mean the clove flavors. My understanding is that this taste comes from the yeast particularly hefe yeast. Well I've only done 2 hefes but yet the same clove taste persists through them all. The wheat extract has been the one common leg between them.

So now long story short I'm done with wheat beers. That is all. carry on

I'm not a real big fan of wheats either. Commercial or homebrew. The one exception is an American Honey Wheat. I use SA-05 with these and it makes a world of difference from the Hefe yeasts.

which hefe yeast strain of yeast did you use?

less than 65 ferm temp = clove. higher than 65 = banana. you might even be sensitive to the clove flavor. those temps are a rule of thumb, not a law, but usually apply. i know you've posted about this in the past saying you've tried it all, so i think you're just sensitive to the clove flavor. we all have our tastes we can't handle; i can tell you if a beer was made with lme with an ALMOST 100% success rate based on the lme twang

lumpher said:

less than 65 ferm temp = clove. higher than 65 = banana. you might even be sensitive to the clove flavor. those temps are a rule of thumb, not a law, but usually apply. i know you've posted about this in the past saying you've tried it all, so i think you're just sensitive to the clove flavor. we all have our tastes we can't handle; i can tell you if a beer was made with lme with an ALMOST 100% success rate based on the lme twang

Click to expand...

Yeah I have posted before trying to figure out where I went wrong and tried to fix it. but alas I never did. And maybe I am sensitive to it. all batches were made with the wheat lme.But I'm going to chug this last batch down regardless.

msa8967 said:

which hefe yeast strain of yeast did you use?

Click to expand...

Im honestly not sure which strains I used.

jrodskreet said:

Yeah I have posted before trying to figure out where I went wrong and tried to fix it. but alas I never did. And maybe I am sensitive to it. all batches were made with the wheat lme.But I'm going to chug this last batch down regardless.

Click to expand...

if you want to, give it 1 last shot using dme. i make hefe's all the time with dme; can't stand lme wheats. they taste sour and metallic. the lme gets oxidized very quickly

I've been making honey wheats using Bavarian wheat DME, honey malt, honey, and WLP 320 American hefe, and I can't say I've ever noticed any sort of clove tastes.

These have been an attempt at replicating the honey taste that Blue Moon honey wheat has to no avail, but I still like it.

I was going to say,I never noticed it much,but after having one of my wheats today I noticed it, I generally ferment on the lower edge if possible,and rarely ever get estery/bannana. After I had one,I did notice clove but it seemed really refined or subtle and so mild that I never even once noticed til today.Ive used munich wheat,and 06 yeast,and 05.Make and american wheat, I dont see where clove would be in one with some cleaner strains. I dont see clove at all in a ahhhh,Gumballhead.Or a Lagunitas. Guess hops,would steal clove from a wheat beer though,but doubt those wheat beers had clove to begin with.Somethin to think about maybe.

Use wyeast 1010 American wheat yeast and you'll avoid all the clove / banana.

I'm a total newbie and I can say the only beer style I've made that was never a disaster was wheat beer. They were all All Grain, and I newbily harvested Sierra Nevada wheat yeast to make the first two. I'm now on my 4th.

tgmartin000 said:

Use wyeast 1010 American wheat yeast and you'll avoid all the clove / banana.

Click to expand...

+1. I used 1010 for the first time on my last brew and love it for wheats now.

jrodskreet said:

Yeah I have posted before trying to figure out where I went wrong and tried to fix it. but alas I never did. And maybe I am sensitive to it. all batches were made with the wheat lme.But I'm going to chug this last batch down regardless.

Click to expand...

Don't give up. It might be as simple as adjusting your fermentation temperature and identifying which yeast strain you used.

Blech. I can't touch a wheat beer made with German hefeweizen yeast.

But I do really like wheat beers with clean american yeast.

Using an American Wheat yeast will simply make a different beer, stylistically, than using a Euro Hef/Wit yeast. If you're not aware of the yeast you're using, you might consider paying closer attention, as this may be the issue- perhaps you've been shooting for a Widmer style Hef but using a Paulaner style yeast. If you want a more Bavarian Hef with strong banana and less clove, ferment warm, up to 72F. Or maybe you'd prefer a Belgian Wit, which would require a different yeast. Either way, don't give up!!!

German Hefeweizen yeast all have that flavor. Even the best commercial examples just taste like banana to me. If I ever make wheat beer, I use American Hefe yeast or even just US-05.

There was a brew strong episode earlier this year from White Labs where they were sampling different yeast strain flavors on the same wort...A Ballast Point Pale ale (Which was based on a Traditional Kolsch malt bill.

Anyway, several of them remarked that if they didn't know any better, they would have sworn the Alt yeast beer was actually a weizen beer due to the banana esters.

Since then I've been thinking about trying a hefe with the Alt yeast.

Am I the only one aiming for clove? I have a Schnieder Weisse clone going that's supposed to have the clove undertones.

Vigo_Carpathian said:

Am I the only one aiming for clove? I have a Schnieder Weisse clone going that's supposed to have the clove undertones.

Click to expand...

I guess I'm lucky I enjoy them on both ends of the spectrum.

Vigo_Carpathian said:

Am I the only one aiming for clove? I have a Schnieder Weisse clone going that's supposed to have the clove undertones.

Click to expand...

I'm not a huge German Hef fan in general, but when I make one, I certainly do not aim for clove- reminds me too much of an off-flavor phenolic. I shoot for banana, though even that can be a little overpowering. I know some folks who really enjoy a clovey beer. To each their own!

Cheers.

I think it may be the LME too. The wheat beers I made before going all grain sucked! Twangy, too much clove and banana with hefe yeast. I think you should give the DME approach a try with a neutral yeast strain and see what happens.

I would try DME instead of LME, just a suggestion.

Cheers
and good luck

passedpawn said:

Blech. I can't touch a wheat beer made with German hefeweizen yeast.

But I do really like wheat beers with clean american yeast.

Click to expand...

ditto....Bananna and clove just arent flavors I look for in anything, let alone beer.

I'm not a fan of banana and Clove either, unless its in my bread.

I do an American honey wheat with none. Like others above, I use US-05. Light biscuit and nutty flavors yes, but no banana or clove.

If you want the recipe, let me know and I'll send it over.

I too prefer an American Honey Wheat. I use a BYO recipe with 2 lbs wild honey and US-05.

signmastr said:

I too prefer an American Honey Wheat. I use a BYO recipe with 2 lbs wild honey and US-05.

Click to expand...

Are you using the honey for flavor? If so, give honey malt a try. You'll get more honey flavor.

If you want a cloudy wheat beer without the phenolics use 1007, and don't use finings

Don't give up but do put more consideration into your ingredients and yeast. I make all three styles of wheat: Bavarian, German and American. It is true that some people are overly sensitive to clove or banana. I find the Bavarian strains tend to more clove and the Hefe strains can go either way depending on the temperature of fermentation. Personally I love the clove and hate the banana and ferment them all between 60-62F.

As mentioned perhaps you should focus on the American Wheat style using a clean yeast like the WY1010 mentioned or even WY1056, very clean and neutral. IME, they both produce a very nice clean American style wheat if used with the proper ingredients. Neither strain will produce the flavors you dislike as long as fermentation occurs mid range for the strain.

If you can get your hands on a bottle of Boulevard Brewing Wheat try it as a good example of the American style. Personally one of my favorites!

Pitching rates have a big impact on banana esters and clove phenols, according to Wyeast. I've used this yeast, pegged the temperature at 65 and gotten mild clove and banana character. I think a lot of getting these beers right has to do with how you treat the yeast. Make sure it's aerated.

I've also brewed an American Wheat with US-05, honey malt and honey. It was delicious.

Thanks eveybody for the tips. I'm just gonna stick with the stouts and IPAs.

Yo, this is some next level ****. I don't get it. Cos I love all wheat beer.

From teh rolling hills o' german all'mands to dem north US amerikaner cali brews, god help me I drink dem all.

An god damn teh inglorious maafoedi that don't like em. Peace.

Either I've been drinking too much, or you've been drinking too much. I just blew a .000, soooo.....

snaps10 said:

Either I've been drinking too much, or you've been drinking too much. I just blew a .000, soooo.....

Click to expand...

LOL! Nah, mate.. no such thing as being too drunk when sitting at home chatting on a forum.

I'm sure we'd both agree drunk driving is bad (when people take breathalyzer tests)

Oh well.. anyway here's to more beer!!

Gotta take one before I drive the fire truck. Zero tolerance here. Come 7am though