Consecration kit from MoreBeer

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I then racked to secondary and added 8 oz starters of both brett L and Brett B as well as my 1 ounce of oak chips that had been soaking in 12 ounces of Cab for a month (the cab went in too). I did this on the logic that russian river cold crashes and then centrifuges consecration to get all the Sacch out of the beer, and then adds in the brett giving it a couple of weeks to get started before they add the bacteria.

Thanks for sharing your process. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. The high mash temperature (159) leads me to believe that the terminal gravity for Saccharomyces will be fairly high, in which case I might just chuck the Brett in on top of it. On the other hand, if I hit 1.016, and it's still chugging along, I might cold crash it and rack as you suggest.
 
My intention was to get as much of the Sacch out as possible, and then add in the brett in the hopes of more or less killing off any Sacc left. I did this becuase I was worried that otherwise the Sacc would just go to sleep for a bit and then wake up as soon as I added the currants. of course I wanted the sugar in the currants to be eaten by the bugs and the brett. I also figured my way was a closer approximation to what RR does.
 
If you add the oak chips on day 1 of secondary then aren't you risking over-oaking it, or do you rack it off the oak at some point?
 
Its 4 months old at the moment and and I can't taste any oak at all. (I taste any time I take a gravity reading).

I used 1 ounce of french oak chips, boiled in water for 10 minutes, drained, and then soaked in Cab Sav for 2 weeks.
 
Folks, I just brewed this one up today. I may have been over zealous in my yeast purchasing, but I bought both the Brett and the Roselare. As I read the instructions, it looks like fermentation is with the Abbey for the first 2 to 3 days, then racked into a secondary with the Brett and the currants for another fermentation for another few months, then racked again into a tertiary for the Roselare and the oak chips. Is my process all out of whack?
 
Folks, I just brewed this one up today. I may have been over zealous in my yeast purchasing, but I bought both the Brett and the Roselare. As I read the instructions, it looks like fermentation is with the Abbey for the first 2 to 3 days, then racked into a secondary with the Brett and the currants for another fermentation for another few months, then racked again into a tertiary for the Roselare and the oak chips. Is my process all out of whack?

THe instructions mention brett, but after re-reading I understood the Roeselare took the brett's place by adding the mix of "bugs". I made sort of an unconventional starter with the currants, a quart of starter wort, and the Roeselare and would like to have racked the ale onto it a bit sooner. With a two quart starter of Abbey Ale II, at 72°F fermenter temp, I went to 1.010 in less than 3 days. My curant starter was cooking off pretty good the next morning before work (day 3+), and that's when I racked it onto the currant mixture. I think if you wait until late in the process with the Roeselare you'll miss out on the extra stuff besides brett it has to offer since the original brett will have most everything cleaned up.
 
how long on the bugs till the sacc should die? i pitched about 10mL of roeselaire from a wyeast pack aug 16 (the rest went into a kriek) and after about a month got the big, funky bubbles and some airlock activity (brett?). that's all settled and there's mostly just thin white scum at the surface.

i'd like to avoid feeding yeast but i don't know much about their viability in this environment.
 
In MoreBeer's interview with Vinnie, he talks about pitching just Brett and giving it 6-10 weeks on its own before pitching the bugs to make sure it does its thing before being knocked out by the low pH from the bugs. This is why they recommend pitching Roesalare after the Brett ferments on its own for a while. It's confusing because the instructions that come with the kit don't mention this, but it is discussed on the website and follows more closely with how the real Consecration is made:

Vinnie recommends fermenting down to around a 1.016-1.018 with Abbey Ale yeast. He recommends the temperature to be 72°F during the first few days of fermentation, and then lets it free rise to 76°F until the target gravity of 1.016 is reached.

After hitting this target gravity, he'll transfer to barrels to start the aging and souring process (a secondary fermenter will be necessary - a barrel would be preferred!) Currants and Brettanomyces are added at this point.

After approximately 7-8 weeks, you'll want to add your Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. To kill two birds with one stone, we recommend pitching Roeselare (WY3763) which contains both bacterium.

The souring process can take anywhere from four to twelve months. Once the desired sourness level is achieved, you'll want to add the Consecration barrel oak chunk(s) until desired oak character is achieved.

Vinnie uses Belgian bottles when bottling Consecration, and bottle conditions using wine yeast. He mentions that he'll never bottle if the gravity is over 1.008.


My primary took 2 weeks to get down to 1.018, and pretty much settled out there using WL530 (Abbey Ale). Following Vinnie's method, I then pitched pure Brett and the currants, waited 2 months, and just pitched Roeselare last week (air lock was still bubbling a bit from the Brett). SG after 2 months of Brett fermentation was 1.012. Only 4-12 months to go!

I'm also bottling a sample at each intermediate step (before pitching Brett, before pitching bugs, and before oak) to compare with the final product. Should be interesting! :mug:

-Carl
 
In MoreBeer's interview with Vinnie, he talks about pitching just Brett and giving it 6-10 weeks on its own before pitching the bugs to make sure it does its thing before being knocked out by the low pH from the bugs. This is why they recommend pitching Roesalare after the Brett ferments on its own for a while. It's confusing because the instructions that come with the kit don't mention this, but it is discussed on the website and follows more closely with how the real Consecration is made:

Vinnie recommends fermenting down to around a 1.016-1.018 with Abbey Ale yeast. He recommends the temperature to be 72°F during the first few days of fermentation, and then lets it free rise to 76°F until the target gravity of 1.016 is reached.

After hitting this target gravity, he'll transfer to barrels to start the aging and souring process (a secondary fermenter will be necessary - a barrel would be preferred!) Currants and Brettanomyces are added at this point.

After approximately 7-8 weeks, you'll want to add your Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. To kill two birds with one stone, we recommend pitching Roeselare (WY3763) which contains both bacterium.

The souring process can take anywhere from four to twelve months. Once the desired sourness level is achieved, you'll want to add the Consecration barrel oak chunk(s) until desired oak character is achieved.

Vinnie uses Belgian bottles when bottling Consecration, and bottle conditions using wine yeast. He mentions that he'll never bottle if the gravity is over 1.008.


My primary took 2 weeks to get down to 1.018, and pretty much settled out there using WL530 (Abbey Ale). Following Vinnie's method, I then pitched pure Brett and the currants, waited 2 months, and just pitched Roeselare last week (air lock was still bubbling a bit from the Brett). SG after 2 months of Brett fermentation was 1.012. Only 4-12 months to go!

I'm also bottling a sample at each intermediate step (before pitching Brett, before pitching bugs, and before oak) to compare with the final product. Should be interesting! :mug:

-Carl

Carl, thanks for the reply. I guess we'll keep our fingers crossed.

My abbey is bubbling its way down to the requisite gravity, I hope. Did you make a starter for the brett / currants?
 
I didn't make a starter for the Brett, just pitched the White Labs vial. Even with no starter, I had an active bubbling air lock the very next day, which persisted for the next 2 months.

The currants were added directly from their packaging to the bottom of the secondary fermenter, and then racked on top of them. They floated to the top by the next morning.

-Carl
 
Are you guys racking (tertiary) off the currants before pitching the lacto & pedio for extended aging?

Based on the Vinnie quote floating around, it sounds like they add the currants to the barrels. In that case I guess Russian River leaves the beer on the currants in the barrels for the entire aging and souring process.
 
I pitched the bugs directly into secondary; I did not rack off of the currants. As you said, it seems that Russian River does it this way in their barrels.

-Carl
 
This kit is available at MoreBeer again for anyone interested. I'd love to get it but I don't have that kind of cash at the moment. Maybe next time it comes into stock.
 
I just happened to stumble across this thread today. I drank a Gueuze Lambic Cuvee Rene last night and decided to brew a sour beer. Lucky 4 me its in stock. ordered!
 
Today I made a small starter and plunked half of the oak they sent with the kit into it. I am hoping some of the resident critters in the wood are still alive and can colonize the starter. If not, I have an Irish Red that I soured with the dregs from a bottle of Lindemans Cuvee Rene. Should save me the price of a smack pack of bugs.
 
I'm planning to soak the oak chunks in a small amount of cabernet for a few weeks prior to adding them to the beer. I was thinking of either using the mason jar attachment on my FoodSaver or giving the jar a short blast of CO2 to discourage oxidation of the wine during the soaking period.

Anyone see a problem with this? My understanding is that souring bugs are anaerobic, but I'm no microbiologist, and if there are any viable bugs in the Russian River chunks (seems doubtful, but who knows?), I don't want to discourage their growth. I'm new to sours, so any advice would be more than appreciated!

I pitched Brett L. and added the currants about 10 days ago, so I'm targeting early to mid December for adding the lacto and pedio. I'll probably add the oak at the same time. And then comes the long period of waiting...
 
I ended up getting some individually quick frozen black currants to use instead of the dried, and now they're all floating in my carboys. I made a double batch, split it, and pitched two different East Coast Yeast blends, so now I'm a bit worried about the floating fruit interfering with pellicle formation. Anybody have any ideas about this?
 
I ended up getting some individually quick frozen black currants to use instead of the dried, and now they're all floating in my carboys. I made a double batch, split it, and pitched two different East Coast Yeast blends, so now I'm a bit worried about the floating fruit interfering with pellicle formation. Anybody have any ideas about this?

The dry fruit floats as well. Don't worry about it.
 
I ended up getting some individually quick frozen black currants to use instead of the dried, and now they're all floating in my carboys. I made a double batch, split it, and pitched two different East Coast Yeast blends, so now I'm a bit worried about the floating fruit interfering with pellicle formation. Anybody have any ideas about this?

It will be fine. But the black currants are not the same as what RR uses. They use Zante currants, which are really just small raisins.
 
Yeah all my Dried Zante Currants floated for about a month and then they began to slowly start sinking. I no longer have any floaters (I added the currants around July 15th or so) and haven't for most of this month. I also have not even the remotest sign of a pellicle and I am just over 5.5 gallons in a 6.5 gallon carboy (so lots of headspace, more than I would like actually). my gravity is also 1.004.
 
Here is the grain bill...
11 pounds rahr 2 row
8oz acidulated malt
4oz special b
4 oz carafa
Adjuncts..
1lb dark Belgian syrup
1lb corn sugar
Hops...
.5 oz styrian goldings. Bitter hop
1oz sterling flavor
1 oz sterling. Aroma

Whirlfloc..
Mash at 158-159
Og 1.073-77
Est Srm 28
Est Ibu 19

I didnt get the kit, but did basically this exact recipe and pitched ECY01 Bugfarm 6. I did a little more dark candy and a little less sugar bc I didnt want to have extra dark candy. It was a 4 gallon batch.
 
I'm at about 7 weeks since brew day. My gravity progressed very rapidly to 1.010, and I made a starter with the Roeselare, and currants overnight before racking the beer into it. This is what it looks like today:

20121109_094836.jpg


I drew a sample, but did not test the gravity since my graduated cylinder is MIA... I didn't expect it to be quite as dry as it is, but even now it is distinctly sour, and maybe not as funky as I expected. I did a second running from the spent grain, and topped the gravity up to about 1.057 with some DME I had left over from canning starter wort, and pitched a Roeselare in it too. It's funny that batch seems to have a bit more body, and may not be quite as sour yet, but has more brett character. Both are still bubbling every minute or so, and I'd consider both to be drinkable as they are, the second running especially.
 
Me and brewing buddy just racked 2 kits into carboys for secondary. Thought I'd pass along a few notes and ask a question:
1. Looks like kits are still available
2. Consider NOT using Roeselare for the initial secondary. Only reporting on research here, not results, but Vinnie lets his brett blend (with no pedio or lacto) work for 7-8 weeks before pitching a brett/pedio/lacto blend (so use Roeselare after 7-8 week in secondary). Apparently the pedio and lacto can make the beer inhospitable for the brett (lowering pH), so he likes to give the brett a head start and pitch the bugs later.
3. What brett to use for initial secondary? We thought about making our own brett blend, but finally decided to use brett lam for one 5 gal batch and brett brux for the other. We'll blend at the end of it all.
4. Brett is very heat tolerant... I've read and been told varying temperature profiles for secondary. Finally decided not to worry about it. Brett lives and works pretty well up to 89F - just going to let it go where it wants to go.

So the question is a few months away, but is anyone considering soaking the oak chunks in cabernet before adding?

Dang, forgot about my idea to soak the oak in wine before adding... oh well. Just reporting on progress. After racking to carboys (one with Brett La, the other with Brett Br), let ferment for 8 weeks and added Roeselare to each. We let it just go with whatever temp it was - have ranged from high 80s down to a low of 55 in the evening for the last couple weeks.

So now it's been 11 weeks since adding Roeselare, 19 weeks since adding Brett, 21 weeks since brew day. We hit SG of 1.006 for the Brett Br and 1.009 for the Brett La this past weekend, so we added the oak. The current beer, despite no carbonation, is absolutely delicious. We used the WY5526 Lambicus and the WLP650 Bruxellensis. Getting sour cherry from the Lambicus, a little more barnyard funk from the Bruxellensis.

Questions: Is anyone done with oaking yet? How long did it take? Any predictions?
 
Going to brew my all grain batch tomorrow. I have a few questions.

- The recipe seems to put the dark belgian candi syrup in with the mash. I have added this during the boil in the past?
- I plan on Mashing in with 4.5 gallons and batch sparging with 4.5 gallons. If my math is correct I will end up with right around 5 gallons in the fermenter?
- When I was plugging in Brew Smith I would not find Rahr 2-Row?
- When I pitch the Brett do I pitch the whole Wyeast pack?

Thanks
 
I've seen some recipes calling for a 90 min. boil and others for a 60; I'm planning on brewing the extract version; is there any reason to go with a 90 min. boil if the numbers seem to work out for a 60?
 
I've seen some recipes calling for a 90 min. boil and others for a 60; I'm planning on brewing the extract version; is there any reason to go with a 90 min. boil if the numbers seem to work out for a 60?

I only did a 60 min boil. I don't really see the need for a 90 min boil without using pilsner malt or needing to concentrate the wort down some.
 
Dang, forgot about my idea to soak the oak in wine before adding... oh well. Just reporting on progress. After racking to carboys (one with Brett La, the other with Brett Br), let ferment for 8 weeks and added Roeselare to each. We let it just go with whatever temp it was - have ranged from high 80s down to a low of 55 in the evening for the last couple weeks.

So now it's been 11 weeks since adding Roeselare, 19 weeks since adding Brett, 21 weeks since brew day. We hit SG of 1.006 for the Brett Br and 1.009 for the Brett La this past weekend, so we added the oak. The current beer, despite no carbonation, is absolutely delicious. We used the WY5526 Lambicus and the WLP650 Bruxellensis. Getting sour cherry from the Lambicus, a little more barnyard funk from the Bruxellensis.

Questions: Is anyone done with oaking yet? How long did it take? Any predictions?

Left oak in for 2 weeks and was getting enough oak character for us and we didn't want to over-oak, so we kegged both beers today. In a week or 2, we will blend and then bottle (counter-pressure filler). Brett La was down to 1.008, Brett Br still at 1.006.
 
Well I drew a sample at almost 10 weeks, a small, late, 50th birthday gift to myself. Started @ 1.073, and it's 1.002 today. Currants are still floating, and I still get a bubble through the airlock every few minutes. There is no mistaking this is a boozy brew, but even now it's fairly balanced and the alcohol doesn't overpower. A hint of malty, dried fruity sweetness remains. Some astringency, and the tartness that has developed makes it very red wine like. I'll wait till after the first of the year to oak it, but for a first stab at using bugs to make a sour, this tastes damn fine!
 
Glad you're enjoying it thus far hllywd! My roommate/co-worker and I just sampled ours not too long ago, and it's definitely getting there. We've had 14 gallons sitting in a 15 gallon barrel (our old Cabernet barrel) for around 6 months now. We're going to be doing one more currant addition this weekend, then another month or two prior to adding in the consecration oak chunks. Might let two chunks sit in there for a couple of weeks, then bottle it up! Has anyone started kegging or bottling your Consecration yet? Has anyone brewed the Tart of Darkness Sour Stout yet!?
 
Jipper said:
Glad you're enjoying it thus far hllywd! My roommate/co-worker and I just sampled ours not too long ago, and it's definitely getting there. We've had 14 gallons sitting in a 15 gallon barrel (our old Cabernet barrel) for around 6 months now. We're going to be doing one more currant addition this weekend, then another month or two prior to adding in the consecration oak chunks. Might let two chunks sit in there for a couple of weeks, then bottle it up! Has anyone started kegging or bottling your Consecration yet? Has anyone brewed the Tart of Darkness Sour Stout yet!?

I just bought the consecration and tart of darkness kit last night can't wait!
 
Well here is my 10 gallons I brewed 7/24/2012. Left one has store bought zante currants and will get oak cubes soaked in 'Robert Mondavi Private Selection Cabernet'. Right one has Morebeer currants and will get the Consecration oak. Small jar is alittle left over I had out of primary... Threw a few drops of the Brett and roeselare blend in there as well...

ForumRunner_20121202_105928.jpg
 
Anyone experience any off flavors from the Roselare yeast? I sampled my brew last night and got a distinctly band-aid / solvent flavor. I really focus on cleanliness during my brew days, so I'm not quite sure where that flavor is coming from. My consecration batch is about 4 months old total, with the roselare yeast working for last 3 months.

Thanks - BK
 
Sometimes the intermediate flavors between clean and soured beer are unpleasant. Give it time, it should come around.
 
Well here is my 10 gallons I brewed 7/24/2012. Left one has store bought zante currants and will get oak cubes soaked in 'Robert Mondavi Private Selection Cabernet'. Right one has Morebeer currants and will get the Consecration oak. Small jar is alittle left over I had out of primary... Threw a few drops of the Brett and roeselare blend in there as well...

Watch out for explosions with that glass jar...
 
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