RIMS for Dummies

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Frogger42 said:
Has anyone used the following eBay components? Looks like I can save a lot of coin, but I am always reminded of the age old adage "you get what you pay for"

1. PID - $28 delivered (eBay Link)
2. SSR + Heatsink - $12 delivered (eBay Link)
3. Thermocouple - $10 plus Shipping (eBay Link)

Any thoughts about the above components?
 
P-J said:
Like you said: You get what you pay for.

I do not think the PID has a manual mode so be prepared to set up additional control function so that you can control the boil.

For me? I'd only deal with the Auber Instruments PIDs.

I am only considering this PID in the context of a RIMS tube
 
What would be the consequences of inverting the placement of the heating element and the temp probe, so that the wort is hitting the probe first? Would that not increase the accuracy in terms of compensating for any heat loss in the cycle? Or would it possibly overcompensate? Or does it not even matter?
 
The system would not know when to stop applying heat as I understand it.

I do wonder what 2 probes and some sort of digital flow meter connected to some software might do. You would know temp in, temp out, and flow rate. I imagine it would know much more precisely how much heat to add.
 
If the system is controlled by a PID cycle and the flow rate remains constant, there should be no trouble regulating temperature. And yes, you want the probe AFTER the heating element, so the system gets feedback from it's input.
 
Just ordered all the stuff for the RIMS build, went with a 1 1/2 x 8" stainless nipple with a 4 inch liquid tight probe from auber (1/2" npt) and the ultra-low density element from plumbing supply. Can't wait for everything to arrive
 
OK I'm going to help solidify the thread title by asking a dumb question. There is no thermocouple on the MLT in the diagram from the first page. So what triggers the pump and the element? I know this is a remedial question but I tried to figure it out to save face but hey that is what screen names are for.
 
The pump is run continuously. The element is in the RIMS, as is the temp sensor. So the temp sensor will talk to the PID and call for power from the SSR. Feedback from a temp probe in the MLT (or several as in my case) can help with consistency and over/under shooting mash temps, however, you need a micro controller and some specialized software to manage it all.
 
Just got all my packages! The stainless is huuuuge. If your going with the ultra low 1500 watt element, you definitely don't need any longer then like a 4" nipple, the elemenet barely makes it past the end of the T
 
Would this RIMS setup as seen in the first post using a 120V 1500W element be capable of maintaining mash and sparge temperatures on a 10 gallon batch in an uninsulated Sanke Keg?

I have a friend who has a RIMS setup and he has to have a burner under the mash tun in addition to the electric heating element.

I would prefer not to use 240 so that my system is more portable.
 
Yes, the system in the first post is not only capable of holding the temp, it's also capable of increasing the temp. My system is using a 5500W 220V element running at 110V. I get about 1375W with this system and I am able to increase temps about a degree every couple of minutes.
 
Anybody use a 1500 watt, 240v heating element? I believe the ones I saw were 7" long. I know its a high watt density, so I doubt it will work. Anyway, has anyone tried it and not scorch the wort?
 
Anybody use a 1500 watt, 240v heating element? I believe the ones I saw were 7" long. I know its a high watt density, so I doubt it will work. Anyway, has anyone tried it and not scorch the wort?

At 120V? At 240V it would be fine, although it would be high density. At 120V it'd only be 375W low density
 
It would be at 240.. I have 2 controllers, one for the rims @ 120 and one for the boil kettle @ 240. I would like to consolidate my brewery into one controller, but will wait if it means I run the risk of scorching the wort....
 
Hello everyone. I want to thank everyone that has contributed their knowledge to this massive thread. It took me a few days to get through it, but I finally did it. However, as much as I want to start on the project as soon as possible, I am still very hesitant to begin. So much so, that I joined to contribute my own "dumb" questions. Here goes.

1. I decided that I will follow the parts list listed on the first page with a minor change. My tube will be 1.5" instead of 2". The heater element should be sufficient for up to 10 gallons correct?

2. I have never dealt with wiring electronics. This is probably what is keeping me from pulling the trigger. The brewersequipment website really scared me with their warning on wiring this stuff. Is there anyway that you can dumb the diagram a bit more, or explain the connections to those that are electrically challenged?

3. How do you ground the element so as to make it safe.

4. Is the original diagram setup so that I can use the pump independently from the heater? So as to transfer wort into my BK and through my CFC. Someone asked this earlier but I didnt find a clear answer.

5. I really like the toolbox RIMS setup. What else do I need in terms of parts to accomplish this? (e.g. Toolbox, switches, etc. ). Can question 4 be accomplished with a toolbox setup?

If there is anyway someone can compile a step-by-step instructional video or text, that would be great. Thank you guys so much and I apologize for the abundance of questions. Again, I just don't want to end up killing myself. :mug:
 
Just took my system for a test drive, I used 1.5 inch pipe fittings and the 1500 watt ultra low density element. My test with 5 gallons of water yielded a temperature change of 1.8 degrees per minute. Of course that's without any grain
 
1. I decided that I will follow the parts list listed on the first page with a minor change. My tube will be 1.5" instead of 2". The heater element should be sufficient for up to 10 gallons correct?

Correct

2. I have never dealt with wiring electronics. This is probably what is keeping me from pulling the trigger. The brewersequipment website really scared me with their warning on wiring this stuff. Is there anyway that you can dumb the diagram a bit more, or explain the connections to those that are electrically challenged?

P-J has a terrific wiring diagram for wiring a RIMS. Just ask him.

3. How do you ground the element so as to make it safe.

I tend to ground to the element base. I have a friend who had someone weld a grounding bolt to his RIMS tube and he tied the ground to that.

4. Is the original diagram setup so that I can use the pump independently from the heater? So as to transfer wort into my BK and through my CFC. Someone asked this earlier but I didnt find a clear answer.

Just to be clear on this, you don't want to run the heater element in the RIMS tube unless you have flowing wort through it. So I always build my control panels with that interlock so the element can't fire unless the pump is running. I'm not sure the original schematic is drawn that way. It's easy enough to include with a DPST switch rated for the proper amperage.

5. I really like the toolbox RIMS setup. What else do I need in terms of parts to accomplish this? (e.g. Toolbox, switches, etc. ). Can question 4 be accomplished with a toolbox setup?

Yes.

If there is anyway someone can compile a step-by-step instructional video or text, that would be great. Thank you guys so much and I apologize for the abundance of questions. Again, I just don't want to end up killing myself. :mug:

I use an ammo box for my controller. It would be similar, but I currently lack the ambition while I'm working on my ebrewery control panel.
 
Correct



P-J has a terrific wiring diagram for wiring a RIMS. Just ask him.



I tend to ground to the element base. I have a friend who had someone weld a grounding bolt to his RIMS tube and he tied the ground to that.



Just to be clear on this, you don't want to run the heater element in the RIMS tube unless you have flowing wort through it. So I always build my control panels with that interlock so the element can't fire unless the pump is running. I'm not sure the original schematic is drawn that way. It's easy enough to include with a DPST switch rated for the proper amperage.



Yes.



I use an ammo box for my controller. It would be similar, but I currently lack the ambition while I'm working on my ebrewery control panel.

Thank you for the responses. If you ever become motivated to make a tutorial, please let me know! :p

Now I have to convince my partners that building this thing is totally worth the money.
 
Here is a question that has been floating around in my head, what makes an element have higher or lower watt density is the ammount of element surface area. Less surface area = higher watt density and more surface area = lower watt density. So if you are running a 240v 6000w high watt density at 120v now 1500w, you would effectively have a significanly lower watt denisty as well. Correct?

240v 6000w hwd = 150 watts per square inch over 40 square inches
same one ran at 120v would be
120v 1500w with 37.5 watts per square inch over the same 40 square inches

but then the question is, is that too low of a watt density?
 
You are correct in that it would have a lower watt density. What makes you think it'd be too low? I don't follow.
 
I don't think it would be to o low. I was asking if it would be to low. Im screaming into a learning curve with no brakes at the moment with this rims thing. Also, if you have any suggestions., what would be the best gauge wire to wire a rims controller with? And would it be the same through out?
 
I've honestly never heard of too low. In the readings I've done there's always a maximum density but never a minimum.
 
My take is that if you've got the room (lower density coils are bigger) then you'd like to use the lowest density possible to prevent scorching. Although I don't put much credence in the scorching theory. We need more info on your wiring plans. It all depends on the power being brought to the system and what it'll be distributed too.
 
im building a single tier three burner set up w/ rims tube (possibly a electric hlt in the future)
what i already have for my control panel - auber syl 2362 w/ rtd probe, 25a ssr and heatsink, two march pumps, bh rims tube
i still have to purchase all the switches, wiring, indicator lights, plugs/receptacles, bus bars, control box, and heater element. It will be a 120v system running though a 20a GFCI. I havent hammered out how exactly i want to wire the switches to keep the element from firing with out the pump running, maybe just a dpst or a .5 gpm low flow swtich. I assume that since it will be all plugged into a 20a gfci that all of the internals (switches, bus bars, etc...) should be rated for atleast 20a 120v, correct?
 
You don't have to wire everything with 12 ga (20A rated) wire, so long as you protect the smaller gauge wire with the appropriate fuse. I'm not familiar with how an Auber PID is wired, does it require dc input?
 
85~260VAC/50~60Hz or 85-360 VDC power supply voltage rating 2 watt power consumption as per the instrucion manual for the pid
 
Most of us have gone with the 40amp ssr and heat sink because the 25amp ssr's run hot and will the a fan to keep them cool. Also a 40 amp ssr is jot that much more than a 25 amp ssr.
 
I got a 25a ssr and an external heatsink from a friend that happened to have one, no need for a fan that way, I think ill give it a shot before I buy a 40a
 
I've been rocking the same 25a Chinese ssr for a couple years and it's used for strike, mash, and boil control. I should get a backup.
 
I'm building a new single tier rig, and was leading towards a RIMs system with DFRM as well, but it sounds like if things go wrong you scorch your wort, I haven't purchased anything yet so I could still go the HERMS route(I was thinking with a sep vessel so I could rise my sparge temps in the HTL while mashing). It seems like the RIMS would be cheaper.

The other thing I'm trying to figure out is if the BCS without the "fuzzy" logic will be able to control the RIMS element. It sounds like after reading about 1/3 of this thread, that the auber controller is the way to go.

thanks for the help
-donnie
 
Ok, I'm ready to jump into this but I still have some lingering noob questions....

Did you mount the PID in a box, or do you just sit it somewhere safe?

What tubing do you use for the in and out on the RIMS body?

This is wired to a regular 110 AC plug?

Can I use this same SSR and PID while using a 1500w Extra Low Density element?

sorry for the stupid questions...
 
Ok, I'm ready to jump into this but I still have some lingering noob questions....

Did you mount the PID in a box, or do you just sit it somewhere safe?

What tubing do you use for the in and out on the RIMS body?

This is wired to a regular 110 AC plug?

Can I use this same SSR and PID while using a 1500w Extra Low Density element?

sorry for the stupid questions...

Don't be sorry. It seems people are willing to answer our noob questions.

People have been really helpful
 
Ok, I'm ready to jump into this but I still have some lingering noob questions....

Did you mount the PID in a box, or do you just sit it somewhere safe?

What tubing do you use for the in and out on the RIMS body?

This is wired to a regular 110 AC plug?

Can I use this same SSR and PID while using a 1500w Extra Low Density element?

sorry for the stupid questions...

There are no stupid questions. Ask all you need.

Here's a link to some pictures of the systems I've built for a couple of HBT members. Don't forget to look at the 2 sub-albums! I attribute the success of these systems to all of the folks who pioneered the RIMS effort. Specifically Sawdustguy, Walker, P-J, Ohio-Ed, jrfuda, The Pol, Code Rage, etc. They are the ones who've made the RIMS systems successful.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/StLBeer/Brewing and Serving/RIMS/
 
okay, here is my schematic, i worked with an employee from auber to set up the relay. We used the J2 NC switch (terminals 13 and 11) to shut off the output of the SSR when the temperature is 5 degrees higher than the SV. At the same time the buzzer is triggered by the J2 NO switch. Set the parameter AH2 to the temperature(SV+ 5 degrees) to shut off the output of the SSR, AL2 to the temperature (-2 degrees of SV+5 degrees) to get the system back to work. In that way, once the temperature rises suddenly, there will be no power for the load and the buzzer will be triggered. Once the temperature drops back down to the the power will be restored and the buzzer will shut off.

rimsdiagram.jpg
 
There are no stupid questions. Ask all you need.

Here's a link to some pictures of the systems I've built for a couple of HBT members. Don't forget to look at the 2 sub-albums! I attribute the success of these systems to all of the folks who pioneered the RIMS effort. Specifically Sawdustguy, Walker, P-J, Ohio-Ed, jrfuda, The Pol, Code Rage, etc. They are the ones who've made the RIMS systems successful.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/StLBeer/Brewing and Serving/RIMS/

Man that is an awesome system. I think I saw it being used on BeerGeekNation. I so wish you were closer so i could get one like it.
 
Ok guys... I've been reading through this massive thread, and I have a few questions. If they're answered somewhere else in this thread, I apologize... it's a long read.

1: Those of you running a thermocouple in the mash and RIMS: Do you find that running the PID controller off of the RIMS thermocouple provides more accuracy/ less chance of overshooting? I assume so since this is what everyone seems to be doing, but before reading this I had assumed it would be better for the PID to be acting on the SV of the wort in the mash tun, rather than the temp of what is passing through the RIMS assembly, as this would ostensibly be a less stable temp than the mass of wort in the mash tun. I trust the results of those of you already using this system, I just want to understand it better. Are there PID controllers that can take both temp inputs and adjust accordingly?

2: I see a lot of links to thermo probes, etc. here, many of which are a few years old at this point. Is there a reason I can't run a cheap probe like this one I'm using in my kegerator?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005G14R70/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The threads are 8X 1.25 mm which would make plumbing it to the RIMS a little tougher, but not that big a deal (I can drill and tap a pipe plug to 8mm). Is this the only reason people seem to be using the more expensive NPT threaded units?
 
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