I brewed my second batch of beer on Saturday. Tonight was over 72 hours and I saw no activity from the yeast, so I took a gravity reading. The first thing I noticed was this English Dark Ale didn't smell very good. Then I took the reading and it's still where it was at when I added the yeast. There doesn't really look like there's any mold...what should I do? I did everything the same way I did my first batch which worked out great, though I haven't drank any of it yet.
over 72 hours, uh oh...
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72 hours is starting to get a bit long, but doesn't mean it won't still start up.
We'll need some basic info to help evaluate.
Recipe
Type of yeast
Age of yeast
Did you make a starter if liquid yeast
Temperature of wort when yeast pitched
Temperature wort has been at since you pitched.
I wouldn't focus on any smells just yet.
We'll need some basic info to help evaluate.
Recipe
Type of yeast
Age of yeast
Did you make a starter if liquid yeast
Temperature of wort when yeast pitched
Temperature wort has been at since you pitched.
I wouldn't focus on any smells just yet.
I was getting ready to ask a few questions, but it seems as if Zen_Brew has already done that. Hop back in here and give us some more info and we will point you in the right direction.
Recipe: Brewer's Best English Dark Ale
Type of yeast: Nottingham
Age of yeast: exp: 08/2010
Did you make a starter if liquid yeast: no it's dry yeast
Temperature of wort when yeast pitched: 75.5 degrees F. The strip thermometer on the outside of my fermenter said something like 80 degrees but I trust the thermometer I stuck in the wort more.
Temperature wort has been at since you pitched: it has remained at approximately 68 degrees F according to the thermometer on the outside, but my other thermometer says 62 degrees on the inside.
The packet of yeast said to suspend the yest in 86-92 degree water and then mix it with the wort. I did not do that, I followed the directions that came with the recipe and it said once the wort was chilled to 70 degrees dump the yeast in and mix it around.
Type of yeast: Nottingham
Age of yeast: exp: 08/2010
Did you make a starter if liquid yeast: no it's dry yeast
Temperature of wort when yeast pitched: 75.5 degrees F. The strip thermometer on the outside of my fermenter said something like 80 degrees but I trust the thermometer I stuck in the wort more.
Temperature wort has been at since you pitched: it has remained at approximately 68 degrees F according to the thermometer on the outside, but my other thermometer says 62 degrees on the inside.
The packet of yeast said to suspend the yest in 86-92 degree water and then mix it with the wort. I did not do that, I followed the directions that came with the recipe and it said once the wort was chilled to 70 degrees dump the yeast in and mix it around.
I just went and checked my fermenter and it looks a lot different than it did last night. There is some bubbles that have formed and the gravity is slightly lower, from 1.042 to about 1.037 today. Should I bring the fermenter out of my basement to a warmer climate for a bit?
beerkrump
Well-Known Member
Leave it where it is. The mid sixties is a great temperature to ferment ales. Notty can throw some nasty flavors if it ferments too high.
That's why we say 75 hours...but remember with LIVING MICROORGANISMS, anything we suggest is just a "rule of thumb," or average, based on our experience, but that doesn't mean the yeasties don't have their own timeframe and agenda...they are the beer bosses, not us.
Remember, if you have sanitized and sealed up your fermenter even if it is over 72 hours your wort wont be ruined if it takes longer. You can buy these and yeast wort kits in some shops. It's basically a 2 or 3 soda bottle of wort that you open, pitch yeast in and snap an airlock on. And those sit for many months on store shelves. And although I am sure it is not the greatest beer in the world, the wort doesn't instantly go bad if they are not sold within 72 hours of being sealed up.
So don't automatically assume just because the yeast doesn't appear to take off for over 72 hours, that it is automatically going to spoil, if you haven't opened the fermenter.
And under most circumstances your yeast will take off...UNLESS you have had mail order liquid yeast sent to you in the heat of summer and didn't make a starter, OR you dropped the yeast into boiling wort.
It is not like the bad old days of pre/1978 brewing when yeast came in dried out cakes that may have travelled in a hot cargo ship over months from Europe. Most yeast today is lightyears healthier than it was back then....
And even if some of the cells are dead, the first thing the yeasties are going to do when presented with 5 gallons of food is have an orgy and reproduce.....that is what is usually happening in the so called lag time...the yeast are waking up, and beginning to raise an army to tackle all that food.
If we can grow a huge 1/2 or 1 gallon starter from the dregs in a bottle of beer, then the yeast you pitch will take off eventually....and if you leave your fermenter alone...don't even look at it, in fact if you trust it...it will be fine.
They've been doing this fermentation stuff for over 4,000 years in some pretty hostile condition, they should be able to handle your nicely sanitized and sealed fermenter.
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That's why we say 75 hours...but remember with LIVING MICROORGANISMS, anything we suggest is just a "rule of thumb," or average, based on our experience, but that doesn't mean the yeasties don't have their own timeframe and agenda...they are the beer bosses, not us.
Remember, if you have sanitized and sealed up your fermenter even if it is over 72 hours your wort wont be ruined if it takes longer. You can buy these and yeast wort kits in some shops. It's basically a 2 or 3 soda bottle of wort that you open, pitch yeast in and snap an airlock on. And those sit for many months on store shelves. And although I am sure it is not the greatest beer in the world, the wort doesn't instantly go bad if they are not sold within 72 hours of being sealed up.
So don't automatically assume just because the yeast doesn't appear to take off for over 72 hours, that it is automatically going to spoil, if you haven't opened the fermenter.
And under most circumstances your yeast will take off...UNLESS you have had mail order liquid yeast sent to you in the heat of summer and didn't make a starter, OR you dropped the yeast into boiling wort.
It is not like the bad old days of pre/1978 brewing when yeast came in dried out cakes that may have travelled in a hot cargo ship over months from Europe. Most yeast today is lightyears healthier than it was back then....
And even if some of the cells are dead, the first thing the yeasties are going to do when presented with 5 gallons of food is have an orgy and reproduce.....that is what is usually happening in the so called lag time...the yeast are waking up, and beginning to raise an army to tackle all that food.
If we can grow a huge 1/2 or 1 gallon starter from the dregs in a bottle of beer, then the yeast you pitch will take off eventually....and if you leave your fermenter alone...don't even look at it, in fact if you trust it...it will be fine.
They've been doing this fermentation stuff for over 4,000 years in some pretty hostile condition, they should be able to handle your nicely sanitized and sealed fermenter.
It's deja vu all over again
(sorry Rev, I swear I just read this in another post)
It's deja vu all over again
Yeah, you did I thought it was worth putting in the 72 hours sticky after I wrote it here.....
Thanks guys. I was originally worried because my first batch, Brewer's Best American Amber, reached it's FG in less than 72 hours. I ended up bottling it after 4 days. This batch seems to be taking much longer to even start showing signs of fermentation.
The only thing I can come up with is I added the yeast when my fermenter said 78 degrees...which meant a thermometer reading from the inside would have been about 84 degrees. This batch the fermenter said about 70 degrees and the internal temp was 75.5 degrees. From what I've read I think yeast will ferment faster if started at a higher temperature?
Next time, should I follow the instructions on the yeast packet rather than just dumping the yeast in and mixing when the temp is at 70 degrees like my beer kit instructions said?
Also, I did open the fermentor up, last night and again today to take the gravity readings. I assume this is ok?
The only thing I can come up with is I added the yeast when my fermenter said 78 degrees...which meant a thermometer reading from the inside would have been about 84 degrees. This batch the fermenter said about 70 degrees and the internal temp was 75.5 degrees. From what I've read I think yeast will ferment faster if started at a higher temperature?
Next time, should I follow the instructions on the yeast packet rather than just dumping the yeast in and mixing when the temp is at 70 degrees like my beer kit instructions said?
Also, I did open the fermentor up, last night and again today to take the gravity readings. I assume this is ok?
brrman
Well-Known Member
you bottled after 4 days??? Wow - no bottle bombs from that?
It's always ok to open er up for gravity readings - just don't spit in your wort or anything...
It's always ok to open er up for gravity readings - just don't spit in your wort or anything...
beerkrump
Well-Known Member
Wow, where to start. I think Revvy's going to get carpal tunnel syndrome typing out this one.
How did you determine that fermentation was complete after 4 days? Not by airlock bubbling I hope, you could have had bottle bombs since the airlock is only a valve to release excess co2 NOT a fermentation gauge. Even if it stopped bubbling after 4 days you should have taken a hydro reading, then another one 3 days later and if they were the same THEN fermentation was complete,,,that would have been 7 days..
And EVEN if fermentation appears to be complete, don't rush your beer, Fermentation is only PART of the yeasts job..they like to clean up after themselves. That's why many of us skip secondary and leave our beer alone for 3-4 weeks...to let the yeast finish their job, and improve our beer.
Even John Palmer says this in How To Brew;
Don't be in a hurry to rush things....you aren't the boss, the yeasts are...and if you leave them the time to do what they are good at, you will be rewarded with excellent beer.
Ok, well I guess I jumped the gun. I took an FG reading at about 72 hours, and it was 1.012 which is what the instructions on the Amber Ale suggested. 24 hours later I went to bottle and took another FG reading. It was 1.012 again. I just did the second FG reading on a whim, I did not know at the time that you should wait 3 more days and take another reading to see if they are the same. Now I know the reading needs to be consistant over the course of a few days.
I swear I'm not purposely rushing I have 48 bottles sitting and I'm more than prepared to let them age for another month or longer if I need to. I just assumed it was ready to bottle because of what the instructions said. I'm pretty sure my Amber Ale will be delicious though...I'm more worried about the English Dark Ale which is batch #2...
I swear I'm not purposely rushing
I have 48 bottles sitting and I'm more than prepared to let them age for another month or longer if I need to. I just assumed it was ready to bottle because of what the instructions said. I'm pretty sure my Amber Ale will be delicious though...I'm more worried about the English Dark Ale which is batch #2...
beerkrump
Well-Known Member
Top four things every new brewer needs to do to make good beer.
1) Relax.
2) Sanitize.
3) Be patient.
4) Control fermentation temperature.
1) Relax.
2) Sanitize.
3) Be patient.
4) Control fermentation temperature.
The Amber Ale has been in the bottles for 11 days so far and no bottle bombs yet. I actually just checked my brewer's log and I bottled after 5 days, not 4 which I guess is slightly better but not much. It is almost clear now except for a fairly large amount of yeast build up at the bottom.
As for the English Dark Ale, I'm going to not even think about it for a few days and then take another gravity reading to see if it is actually fermenting. We'll see how it looks by this weekend.
As for the English Dark Ale, I'm going to not even think about it for a few days and then take another gravity reading to see if it is actually fermenting. We'll see how it looks by this weekend.
You may also want to find a way to verify your thermometers. Obviously at least one of them has a rather nasty error. If your temp was closer to the 62 degree reading that could be why your fermentation started up so slowly. Keepeing the temp around 70 until fermentation begins should help things move along at a good pace. Then you can drop into the 60's once things get going.
just thought I would let everyone know that this beer turned out quite good. it has a slight banana aroma and you can notice cloves in the flavoring. very good...wasn't really expecting that type of aroma or clove taste though. is it normal for the brewers best english brown ale to taste like that?
beerkrump
Well-Known Member
Cloves and bananas are classic flavors that come from certain yeasts fermenting at temperatures higher than their optimum. If you try some witbiers you can find some of the same flavors. However, these are not necessarily desirable in a brown ale. Pitching and fermenting at a lower temp and letting the beer sit in the primary at least three weeks to allow a majority of the yeast to go into dormancy will lessen these flavors.
