Countertop Brutus 20

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very interested in this setup and need imput on my set up.
- can you build the rig without the counterflow wort chiller. i have a keggle im converting with two 2000 watt elements and a 40 qt polarware as my mlt. since i have a drop in chiller, can i build the system without a bucket chiller and just pump the wort/water between the two vessels.
 
doodlevon said:
very interested in this setup and need imput on my set up.
- can you build the rig without the counterflow wort chiller. i have a keggle im converting with two 2000 watt elements and a 40 qt polarware as my mlt. since i have a drop in chiller, can i build the system without a bucket chiller and just pump the wort/water between the two vessels.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! I know several CB20 builders who did just that because they prefer immersion chilling.
 
fantastic, in reference to the electrical side of the build,
-two ssrs and one pid to control them? help with which ones to buy and where.
-three different 12 guage lines from my box on gfci (one for each element, and on for the pump)?
 
I like Auber. You can find parts a bit cheaper on eBay but Auber's support is stellar. The SYL-2362 PID can easily source two SSRs. Just wire them in parallel. While the 25A SSRs would be sufficient, I'd suggest going for the 40s - they run cooler. Don't forget heatsinks too.

The March pump doesn't draw much. I'm able to run a 2KW element and the pump off a single 20A circuit easily.
 
Have you had any problems with the PID overshooting the desired temp when the volume in the kettle/HLT is lower....I ran the autotune with 4 gallons and I notice when I have two gallons in the kettle the PID keeps rasing the temp 10...15...even 20 degrees above the set temp...
 
madisoneyes said:
Have you had any problems with the PID overshooting the desired temp when the volume in the kettle/HLT is lower....I ran the autotune with 4 gallons and I notice when I have two gallons in the kettle the PID keeps rasing the temp 10...15...even 20 degrees above the set temp...
Click to expand...

Autotune isn't perfect. You probably need to decrease your I parameter a bit. Coderage did a nice post on manually tuning a PID.
 
I have a couple questions...

1.What is your cleaning/disinfecting protocol?
2. Do you use recirculation to maintain mash temp...if so is a very slow recirculation best?
 
madisoneyes said:
I have a couple questions...

1.What is your cleaning/disinfecting protocol?
2. Do you use recirculation to maintain mash temp...if so is a very slow recirculation best?
Click to expand...

I rinse the kettle, fill with a couple gal of hot water and PBW, and recirculate through the pump/cfc for about 5 minutes. Then I dump it all out and fill the kettle with 5gal of hot water and run it through the pump/cfc to rinse. That's all there is to it.

The cooler MLT does a great job of holding temp, but you certainly can recirc. during the mash. I only do it for raising mash temps and mashout.
 
my apologies if this has already been covered... but i noticed you are using a 15 amp receptacles in the control box. at max output, the heating element will pull 16.67 amps. seems to me the heating element should be plugged into a 20 amp receptacle and 12 g wire used instead of the 14 g. any thoughts from the more electrically inclined?
 
timber_road said:
my apologies if this has already been covered... but i noticed you are using a 15 amp receptacles in the control box. at max output, the heating element will pull 16.67 amps. seems to me the heating element should be plugged into a 20 amp receptacle and 12 g wire used instead of the 14 g. any thoughts from the more electrically inclined?
Click to expand...

You'll probably notice that your kitchen has 15A receptacles on 20A circuits too. It's a weird but allowed quirk of the electrical code. Wiring should still be 12 gauge.
 
you are absolutely correct about my kitchen (most of the house for that matter)... 15A receptacles on 20A circuits, 12 guage wire. i'm still learning as i go with electricity. i guess the only question came to mind regarding the amps being pulled by the heating element exceeding the rating of the receptacle. if it's an allowed quirk then so be it. an electrician friend told me it would most likely not be an issue.

i am completely fascinated by this setup. i love brewing outside with my scaled down BIAB setup. i brew 2.5 gallon batches in a 6 gallon pot. however, brewing in my basement during the winter months would certainly be comfortable and would take out the element of mother nature. i have a second kitchen down there with plenty of space and 240v. heck, i even have a garden hose attachment down there.

this will be my first DIY homebrewing project. thanks to jkarp and the many others on this site for pointing me down the path!

also... i found a LWD 2000W/120V element here

but i dont understand what "resistored" stainless steel is or if in fact the outer sheath of Incology® 800 (whatever that is) would have an adverse affect on the wort.
 
Good find. I'd not seen a 2KW LWD before. I've been using a HWD Rheem resistor copper element with great success. I like that it's all copper exposed to the wort.
 
yeah the LWD seems a tad pricey compared to the HWD models that are readily available in 2000W/120V... may just go with the HWD copper. if you've never had a scorching issue, thats good enough for me.

i feel the same way copper. from what i've read many heating elements are sheathed in some kind of alloy to resist oxidation in high temp environments as a way of strengthening the element and making it last longer.
 
I'm a huge fan of this idea, this thread, and others related to it. My preliminary plans are to go all-electric with two 2000W heating elements, but I realized that I'd be able to slightly modify my current system to try out the process.

I've got a 10 gallon brew pot, a 10 gallon cooler with false bottom, and a single pump. I typically do some variety of batch sparge. All I had to do was hook up the hoses in a different order and set my mash tun up on a bucket, and I'd replicated the Countertop Brutus setup (albeit with my heat still my usual combination of 1500W heat stick and gas stove).

I thought it went really well. Dropped my efficiency a little bit from my usual in the low 70s to 67%, but was easy and simple. I ran into one problem. As I started circulating, some grain ended up in the kettle. This wasn't surprising. The problem was that a non-trivial amount of it wanted to just float around, and not get drained out (to get pumped back to the top of the grain bed in the mash tun). I tried to let the water level in the kettle get lower, so the floaters would get sucked into the dip tube, but that just resulted in me losing pump function.

My solution was ultimately to stop the pump, dump the kettle contents onto the top of the grain bed, and then resume business as usual. From then on, we were golden. Really crystal clear wort.

I thought perhaps this was a one time problem, maybe related to the grain bill. (Recipe was a Leffe Blonde clone I found on HBT a while back.) Perhaps one of those grains is just particularly floaty. Going to give the method a few more tries before I commit to my next rig. Thanks again jkarp and everyone else.
 
Your mash tun have a copper / pvc manifold? I use a stainless braid so there's no way anything but flour-sized bits can get through and they recirculate easily. With a manifold, I'd suggest doing a normal vorlauf before beginning recirculation to get the grain bed set.
 
dflipse said:
I'm a huge fan of this idea, this thread, and others related to it. My preliminary plans are to go all-electric with two 2000W heating elements, but I realized that I'd be able to slightly modify my current system to try out the process.

I've got a 10 gallon brew pot, a 10 gallon cooler with false bottom, and a single pump. I typically do some variety of batch sparge. All I had to do was hook up the hoses in a different order and set my mash tun up on a bucket, and I'd replicated the Countertop Brutus setup (albeit with my heat still my usual combination of 1500W heat stick and gas stove).

I thought it went really well. Dropped my efficiency a little bit from my usual in the low 70s to 67%, but was easy and simple. I ran into one problem. As I started circulating, some grain ended up in the kettle. This wasn't surprising. The problem was that a non-trivial amount of it wanted to just float around, and not get drained out (to get pumped back to the top of the grain bed in the mash tun). I tried to let the water level in the kettle get lower, so the floaters would get sucked into the dip tube, but that just resulted in me losing pump function.

My solution was ultimately to stop the pump, dump the kettle contents onto the top of the grain bed, and then resume business as usual. From then on, we were golden. Really crystal clear wort.

I thought perhaps this was a one time problem, maybe related to the grain bill. (Recipe was a Leffe Blonde clone I found on HBT a while back.) Perhaps one of those grains is just particularly floaty. Going to give the method a few more tries before I commit to my next rig. Thanks again jkarp and everyone else.
Click to expand...

We are noticing a big swing in electric brewing based on our element vs. burner sales. We have switched to a combonation element/ induction burner system ourselves.
 
dflipse said:
I'm a huge fan of this idea, this thread, and others related to it. My preliminary plans are to go all-electric with two 2000W heating elements, but I realized that I'd be able to slightly modify my current system to try out the process.

I've got a 10 gallon brew pot, a 10 gallon cooler with false bottom, and a single pump. I typically do some variety of batch sparge. All I had to do was hook up the hoses in a different order and set my mash tun up on a bucket, and I'd replicated the Countertop Brutus setup (albeit with my heat still my usual combination of 1500W heat stick and gas stove).

I thought it went really well. Dropped my efficiency a little bit from my usual in the low 70s to 67%, but was easy and simple. I ran into one problem. As I started circulating, some grain ended up in the kettle. This wasn't surprising. The problem was that a non-trivial amount of it wanted to just float around, and not get drained out (to get pumped back to the top of the grain bed in the mash tun). I tried to let the water level in the kettle get lower, so the floaters would get sucked into the dip tube, but that just resulted in me losing pump function.

My solution was ultimately to stop the pump, dump the kettle contents onto the top of the grain bed, and then resume business as usual. From then on, we were golden. Really crystal clear wort.

I thought perhaps this was a one time problem, maybe related to the grain bill. (Recipe was a Leffe Blonde clone I found on HBT a while back.) Perhaps one of those grains is just particularly floaty. Going to give the method a few more tries before I commit to my next rig. Thanks again jkarp and everyone else.
Click to expand...

In my original Brutus 2.0 design, I recirculate the pots back to themselves. This clears the wort crystal clear. Then I switch the lids when all has cleared.

Kegcowboy, I have been meaning to come see your shop. Several members from my brewclub (Mashtronauts) say it's real nice. I don't need much of nothing, but just to say hi, a beer, and maybe a refill...

Sorry for the :off:
 
jkarp said:
Your mash tun have a copper / pvc manifold? I use a stainless braid so there's no way anything but flour-sized bits can get through and they recirculate easily. With a manifold, I'd suggest doing a normal vorlauf before beginning recirculation to get the grain bed set.
Click to expand...

There's the problem. I actually have a full false bottom in my mash tun. I'd hoped the relatively small amount of grain would be able to circulate through the whole system, but my first try showed that doesn't work, at least the way my dip tube/boil kettle is set up. Going forward, then, I'd either switch to a stainless braid or just do a quick initial vorlauf like you said. Appreciate the info.
 
Lonnie Mac said:
In my original Brutus 2.0 design, I recirculate the pots back to themselves. This clears the wort crystal clear. Then I switch the lids when all has cleared.

Kegcowboy, I have been meaning to come see your shop. Several members from my brewclub (Mashtronauts) say it's real nice. I don't need much of nothing, but just to say hi, a beer, and maybe a refill...

Sorry for the :off:
Click to expand...

Lonnie, It would be an honor to finally meet you in person. If you are able to give us some warning I'll make sure that I am there when you get there. It seems internet Christmas sales have already started with lots of wifes calling in for gift hints so..............don't be surprised if at certain times of the day if it looks more like a distrubition warehouse more than a homebrew equipment shop. -Jeff
 
jkarp,

I hate to ask but is it possible for you to take a picture of the inside or your controller? I thought I had it figured until I realized you have both your element and your pump hooked up to it.
 
JKarp - Great system... I like the idea of all electric and have put together a 5 gallon, 2 element, 120v (2-20amp circuits) version. Every thing else in my system is pretty much as you detailed. I have a Chugger pump in my bucket CFC to transfer liquid. I've read numerous threads about difficulty bleeding air out of the March/Chugger pumps...

My question - Has anyone had problems (with the bucket CFC configuration) getting air bled out of the pump, CFC coil? If so, how did you overcome?
 
sawdsm said:
My question - Has anyone had problems (with the bucket CFC configuration) getting air bled out of the pump, CFC coil? If so, how did you overcome?
Click to expand...

As long as the kettle is full when you start the pump (as it should be when you push strike water to the MLT), there should be plenty of back-pressure to force the pump to prime instantly. From then on during the brew session, the pump always has liquid in it so never looses prime.

I do have to give it a little help during cleaning to get the hot PBW solution circulating - I just use my mouth then to suck solution into the pump. Once it catches, you'll know and it'll take off.
 
I've been planning a single tier version of this for at 10G size rig. Now I'm planning a replica for indoor brewing during the winter. Damn you jkarp.

I just entered your parts list into a spread sheet that I can now carry with me in my wallet and pick up the system peice by piece at lowes and check them off as I get them. My wife will be thrilled at the idea of having outdoor AND indoor brew systems :D
 
IrregularPulse said:
I've been planning a single tier version of this for at 10G size rig. Now I'm planning a replica for indoor brewing during the winter. Damn you jkarp.

I just entered your parts list into a spread sheet that I can now carry with me in my wallet and pick up the system peice by piece at lowes and check them off as I get them. My wife will be thrilled at the idea of having outdoor AND indoor brew systems :D
Click to expand...

Any chance you want to share the spreadsheet?
 
IrregularPulse said:
Definitely. I added a HAVE field to be able to check stuff off as I accumulate it. PM me or post here you email address and I'll send it. This goes for anyone else that wants it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the sheet IR, you the man!! :rockin:

Here is a link to download the spreadsheet for anyone else that may want it...


http://tinyurl.com/2dhn6ph
:mug:
 
I was inspired by this thread, and have nearly collected all the required parts. I keep stumbling onto sporadic posts that mention efficiency issues with higher than 1.050 OG. Even google turned up what looked to be Lonnie saying something to that effect back in 2008.

Granted, I really don't care what my efficiency is. As long as I can plan properly and use enough grain to hit my OG. Were these posts from before there was much actual use of the 2.0 system?
 
mschrock said:
Granted, I really don't care what my efficiency is. As long as I can plan properly and use enough grain to hit my OG. Were these posts from before there was much actual use of the 2.0 system?
Click to expand...

As long as you plan for efficiency in the 70% range, you'll be golden. High adjunct beers seem to take a bigger efficiency hit than high gravity, in my experience.
 
Thanks jkarp for this awesome idea. I have been throwing around ideas in my head to convert from extract brewing to all grain, but living in an apartment really limits my options. Once I saw your thread, I knew this was the solution for me. Sadly, Christmas drained the funds, so it'll be a few weeks to assemble the parts. Looking forward to it though!
 
Out of curiosity, how do you handle filtering hops coming out of the kettle after boil?

Do you do this after the CFC, before fermenter? have you modified the pickup in the kettle to handle a hob sock or filter of some sort?
 
So when you say you wait for gravity to equalize between the two pots, are you using a refractometer or taking hydro samples and taking the time to chill them?
 
FWIW, I built this system, and it works wonders. BUT my effiency is ~55%. I think it has to do with my cooler being square, but I am not too worried about it.
 

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