How much better is partial mashing?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Cos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
136
Reaction score
0
My first couple batches of extract brewing are good, but not exactly what I'm looking for.

Will partial mashing make a big difference?

If I have an extract recipe with grains for steeping, do I just use the same amount of grain for a partial mash?

Can I substitute a certain amount of grain for liquid malt or do I need to look for partial mash recipes?
 
PM can make a difference but it is hard to say for sure without knowing exactly what you didn't like about the extract recipes you made. What is it that you don't like?

In its most basic form a PM will replace some of the extract with 2-row and keep the specialty grains about the same. Then you mash all the grain rather than just steeping it. I would recommend finding a PM recipe at first rather than trying to alter an extract recipe. Once you have a feel for the mechanics you can start experimenting.
 
PMing has made all the difference for me. I did a 5 gal converted cooler that can hold up to 11-12 pounds of grain. I actually mash a lot more than a regular partial mash, but it's cheaper and I have the capability to. My extract Nut Brown is good, but has the "twang." My American Wheat is full flavoured with a much better mouthfeel (mashed 5.5 lbs grain, added 3 lbs WDME).

I also like the challenge of the mash: will I hit my O.G.? Oh no, my temp's not hitting, what can I do? What if I mashed at 148 rather than 154? What if I decocted? It's a tool for me to become a better brewer. I would think extract would get boring after a while.
 
Yes, doing a PM batch will make a difference. Some kits have you steep 1 pound or so of grains before adding extract, but with a PM you maybe steeping up to 2 or 3 times the amount of grain, which contribute to a better tasting beer without that extract 'twang'.
 
Honestly, though, if you're going to go through all the steps of partial mash, you might as well go all grain. It's the same procedure, except you get ALL your sugars from mashing, not just some of them
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Honestly, though, if you're going to go through all the steps of partial mash, you might as well go all grain. It's the same procedure, except you get ALL your sugars from mashing, not just some of them

Except you might need more equipment, a bigger brew pot, and for many of us, a new burner if your stove isn't power full enough for AG. If you want to go AG, fine, but brew how you want and don't let people convince you that there is only one way to brew. I, like many who brew from extract or PM, used to explain that I use partial mash because I don't have the equipment or space for AG- it's almost like a knee-jerk reaction to explain why I prefer my method. But then I realized that I am an adult who can do whatever I want and shouldn't feel obligated to explain myself to people and neither should anyone. Sorry if I went off, but it is really frustrating that whenever someone asks about PM over extract, people inevitably answer the question "niether," which was not the question asked. This might be hard for many to swallow, but AG is not for everyone, and it is not the only way to brew. I used to want to eventually go AG, but then wonder if I'll act like an elitist if I do. I am seriously not trying to troll here, but I feel on this and many forums, that if I even mention PM, so one will tell me that I'm wrong and I should go AG, despite that I did not ask that question, which makes me hesitant to even bring the subject up. It's even happened a lot at the LHBS, and I'm to the point that I will be downright rude when another customer chimes in with advice I never asked for.
 
If I move into a small apartment, I am going PM. No way is the equipment size worth the loss of space.

Right now I have a lot of space though, so AG it is. But that can change....


As for PM vs Extract, it's a no brainer. PM teaches you recipe formulation. It's almost as good as AG. It takes up less space.
 
Hi, Cos.

>>Will partial mashing make a big difference?<<

It will make some improvement to body and fullness.

>>If I have an extract recipe with grains for steeping, do I just use the same amount of grain for a partial mash?<<

Not really. Most of the time, the steeping grains are "specialty" grains used to add flavour.

>>Can I substitute a certain amount of grain for liquid malt or do I need to look for partial mash recipes?<<

You may if you wish. Extracts generally have 46 sacc points, and grains center-up at about 37 sacc points. Figuring your PM mashing effticiency to be ~70%, then you could use about 1.75 lb grain to replace 1 lb of extract in the recipe, or you may look for PM recipes.

As you can see, if grain costs most of us ~ 1.50 a pound, and extract costs ~2.25 a pound, extract brewing is actually cheaper at 70% eff.

The reason we do it is flavour and control.
****************************************

I read your post,Michael, and I know your frustration when it seems like someone is offering an unsolicited opinion. But, really, eveyone here is just wanting to help, and they offer as best they can. Most AG brewers do not look at extract brewing as being less than just brewing. Extract, PM, AG it's all part of the same package. I've been brewing since 1974, Yet, I don't think I am any more elitist than a guy doing his first extract brew, and if he or she has a question, I'll give my best answer, or just say "i don't know, let's find out", because "oldtimers" want to advance the hobby and help if they can. This BB has a lot of experienced, kind, helpfull members.

Cheers! ..........
 
newell456 said:
Except you might need more equipment, a bigger brew pot, and for many of us, a new burner if your stove isn't power full enough for AG. If you want to go AG, fine, but brew how you want and don't let people convince you that there is only one way to brew. I, like many who brew from extract or PM, used to explain that I use partial mash because I don't have the equipment or space for AG- it's almost like a knee-jerk reaction to explain why I prefer my method. But then I realized that I am an adult who can do whatever I want and shouldn't feel obligated to explain myself to people and neither should anyone. Sorry if I went off, but it is really frustrating that whenever someone asks about PM over extract, people inevitably answer the question "niether," which was not the question asked. This might be hard for many to swallow, but AG is not for everyone, and it is not the only way to brew. I used to want to eventually go AG, but then wonder if I'll act like an elitist if I do. I am seriously not trying to troll here, but I feel on this and many forums, that if I even mention PM, so one will tell me that I'm wrong and I should go AG, despite that I did not ask that question, which makes me hesitant to even bring the subject up. It's even happened a lot at the LHBS, and I'm to the point that I will be downright rude when another customer chimes in with advice I never asked for.


Sorry I blew up. Have a homebrew and chill out.
 
I think the biggest factor I have experienced in making better homebrew is full boils. The first full boil I ever did was an extract with steeping grains and I noticed a big difference.
 
newell456 get a grip! I think that after we start the homebrewing ang get hooked no matter what method we use we all become beer snobs. Be proud beer snob!
 
What would be the maximum amount of grain I could PM and limit the boil size to 4 gallons? (I have a 22 qt. pan, don't think I can boil over 4 gal. without boilover).

If it takes 1.25 quarts of water per lb of grain to mash and another 2 quarts per lb to sparge, that's 3.25 quarts/lb. or .8 gallons/lb.

That comes out to 4 gallons of water per 5 lb of grain.
 
I have been doing some partial mashes lately and doing 3.75 gallon boils. I end up with about 3 gallons of wort at the end, and I did notice a big difference in taste. I am also using liquid yeasts. All together, I notice a crisper taste and cleaner finish. I still have on really good extract recipe that I plan to keep making though.

greg
 
I have been doing PM's for the last 4 batches.

I mash in a 3 gallon beverage cooler, and use 6 lbs of grains. I typically end up with 3 gallons of wort.

I do a gravity reading of the wort contributed by the grains, and then do some fairly simple calculations to determine how much extract I need to add to hit my target gravity exactly.

I make sure that I have more extract on hand than my recipe conversion indicated in case my mash efficiency is considerbly off.

I have found a significant improvement in the quality of my beer since moving to PM and will move to AG in the next couple of months. I just need to work out some logistics as I am living in an apartment. I can make it work though as I have a 400 sf deck. I just need to find a way to plumb my immersion chiller to my roof top deck!
 
I too want to say that PM beer does taste better. I don't know what it is, maybe I just got lucky, but so far all my PM's have been excellent. I have tried some small AG brews (as I don't have the full capacity of a AG brewer) and they taste great too! So far I can tell little difference between PM and AG, but maybe I am just not experienced enough!

Doing two more small AG's this weekend, then beginning in October, I'll be back to full 5.25 gallon PM brews. Fall is here and I am excited!!!

edit: oh, I forgot to say, in the PM brews, I use DME and not LME. Somehow it confirms to a lot I have read here on this site: that DME doesn't seem to have that twang.
 
I've only done 3 PM batches, but I do think they were better than my 3 extract batches.

Look for AG and PM recipes. AG recipes are fairly easy to convert to PM recipes - you just substitute extract for most (not all) of the base malt. Software like BrewSmith (which is what I use - its only $20), can help with recipe formuation and figuring out how much water to use.

Go for it! You'll like it. :mug:
 
Before giving you another opinion on PM vs Extract/w grains, I would rather know what you have brewed and what you didn't like about it?
 
My first 2 batches of extra w/grain both have that "twang" My Brewers best kit for old english ale had a noticable twang after 2 weeks in the bottle. Now at 5 weeks, it is better, but still quite noticable.

My second batch was supposed to be a sam adams clone. I It has been bottled at room temp 2 weeks and now in the frig at 34 for a week. It has that same twang and really lacks the hop flavor of the boston lager.

I have an octoberfest which I just moved to secondary and when I sampled it, I noticed the twang again. Still have a ways to go on it though.

My main goal is to get rid of the twang. If I can do that by going to DME instead of liquid, that would be easier than doing a PM.
 
From reading the forum it does seem that the twang is more present in LME so it might help to some degree to switch to DME.
 
Cos said:
My first 2 batches of extra w/grain both have that "twang" My Brewers best kit for old english ale had a noticable twang after 2 weeks in the bottle. Now at 5 weeks, it is better, but still quite noticable.

My second batch was supposed to be a sam adams clone. I It has been bottled at room temp 2 weeks and now in the frig at 34 for a week. It has that same twang and really lacks the hop flavor of the boston lager.

I have an octoberfest which I just moved to secondary and when I sampled it, I noticed the twang again. Still have a ways to go on it though.

My main goal is to get rid of the twang. If I can do that by going to DME instead of liquid, that would be easier than doing a PM.

Personally, I think a lot of this twang association with LME is coming more from using stale extract or folks scortching the LME than an inherent trait. When I used extract, the late addition method improved my brews.

Sure, try using DME and try a PM brew...try everything you can and see what works best. Having other brewers sample your beer and discuss your process can offer lots of good feedback too.
 
I've never run across the extract twang, so I can't address it.

PM lets you work with specialty grains that cannot be steeped, opening more options. This is probably of more value on the Dark Side.
 
As a trial I'm going to do a PM with my brewers best english brown ale recipe.
So, what kind of grain should I use to substitute for the liquid malt for a brown ale?

Also, rather than include the specialty grains with the base grains, why not always do 4 lb of base grain, and steep the specialty grains separate?
 
I am skeptical of lme, so I always use DME now. I have not had a twang from my extract batches, but I do notice a cleaner, crisper finish in my PM batches, even when I use liquid yeast starters in both. That being said, I still like extract batches every now and then for ease of brewing, and have a few recipes that I really like. I am brewing a high gravity IPA from extract right now, but started doing late extract additions and have gone to 4 gallon boils to help the end result as well.

Greg
 
Back
Top