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mrkstel

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First, let me preface this by saying that I am NOT doing this, nor am I planning on doing this. The question arose during a conversation with a co-worker and I just thought I would get a few other opinions.

The question is: Would it be legal to provide homebrewing services for a fee? For example, imagine you had a buddy who loved your latest Coors Light Clone :D and he would like you to brew him a batch using your equipment. He would purchase all the ingredients and you would brew it, ferment it and keg/bottle it. In return, would it be legal to charge him a service fee for "general labor" or "storage space" or "carboy rental"? Another approach would be to sell him supplies (grain, hops, yeast) from your inventory at a marked up price. Then you brew the beer for him. I think you see where I'm going with this. It is his beer. He owns it. You would just be providing a service or selling him unregulated supplies.

My gut tells me that it would still be considered selling alcohol in the eyes of the BATF. Am I right?

Again, I'm not planning on doing this. Just making conversation.
 
Once the yeast hits the wort I don't think it's legal anymore. I bet you could skirt the rules by charging for finished wort then let your client pitch the yeast, but I'm not a lawyer nor do I have any understanding of the alcohol laws in any state.
 
I think the issue (ATF) would come in once you pitched the yeast. IANAL, but the LHBS mentioned that they could do everything in their shop, but they could not pitch yeast, at that point it falls under different regs.

If I remember correctly there is a company on one of the brewing tv episodes that does something similar to this, where they have a brewmaster helping people out to make up a recipe, etc.
 
I could be completely wrong here, And if i am..I know i will be corrected.

General idea here is, No you cant "sell" your beer outright.

If someone wants your beer, and you are willing to make it for them...Great.

Hand them the list of what you need, Send them down to the local homebrew store or have them get it online and you make it.

You can Not make ANY profit from beer.
Basicly, Profit = someone wants there tax $$$$
No Profit = no worries :mug:
 
For legality I would sell him wort. Then give him the wort along with an optional carboy renting fee. It's up to him what he wants to do with his Malt koolaid you just sold him. If he decides to ferment it, that's up to him, Then you could always help him bottle it for free at his place as a friendly gesture (the price is just inflated into the price of the malt koolaid you sold him of course.

That being said, if it's just a buddy that wants to buy an occasional batch, I would just brew it bottle it and charge him whatever you agreed on. I wouldn't go making it a company or doing it all the time to make thousands of dollars. Yes, technically you're selling beer without a license, but c'mon.
 
finley said:
I think the issue (ATF) would come in once you pitched the yeast. IANAL, but the LHBS mentioned that they could do everything in their shop, but they could not pitch yeast, at that point it falls under different regs.
Click to expand...

Huh, I never thought of that. So, maybe you could sell him finished wort, have him pitch the yeast and then charge a storage fee to store the wort while it ferments.
 
Here we go again, people trying to circumvent a very clear cut set of laws...

Any form of EXCHANGE for homebrew is considered illegal under the 1978 repeal of the ban on homebrewing, H.R. 1337...unless of course you become licensed to do so, and pay taxes.

That's the bottom line, folks.

In fact Bartering of alcohol of any type is illegal, period, even for licensed retailers.

Trading or Bartering

The trading or bartering of alcoholic beverages for cash or in exchange for different alcoholic beverages by and between retail liquor dealers, in order that they may take advantage of special deals involving quantity discounts or free goods offered by wholesale liquor dealers, is not a bona fide loan of liquors described in Revenue Ruling 54-509 which outlines transactions constituting bona fide loans. Such trading or bartering constitutes sales for purpose of resale and engaging in this practice would subject the retail dealers to liability for special tax as wholesale liquor dealers and would necessitate the acquiring of basic permits as wholesale liquor dealers. This ruling relates only to the trading or bartering of merchandise between retailers after purchase thereof by one or more retailers individually, and not to the cooperative purchasing of alcoholic beverages by several retailers, dealt with in Revenue Ruling 56-204.

26 U.S.C. 5111; 27 CFR 194.28
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And if you are planning to do so, I wouldn't be discussing it on the largest homebrewing site on the web......

Whenever a thread like this, or someone trying to make money off homebrew for whatever reason, charity or otherwise, all these "armchair lawyers," come up with all the ways they think could be "get arounds" the law. Sorry kids, you can hypothesize all you want, but do you notice ever any actually attorneys with knowledge of the law ever coming up with some of this stuff? No.

Whether we agree with the laws or not. You can't loophole your way through this. The laws are pretty specific in regards to homebrewing- any medium of exchange, be it money or barter involving homebrew is illegal.

Remember homebrewing wasn't re-legalized after the Volstead act was repealed in 1933, it wasn't legalized until 1978, and it took a lot of work in those 45 years to get it to happen....and despite it's federal legalization, it is STILL on a State by State basis.

Wasn't it legalized in Utah JUST this very year?

Do a little reading on the history of prohibition and the legalizing of homebrewing, and maybe you'll quit the idiotic hypothisizing about trying to get around the law, and realize what a fine razors edge this hobby sits on to many folks.

Some folks still think you can go blind drinking homebrew.
Other's can't distinguish what we're doing with making meth.

Hell even some cops look on what we're doing with suspicion.

Don't believe me? Check out this Cops episode if you haven't already....look at what "John Law" has to say about our little hobby. "The concotion he was making could be deadly..." :rolleyes:



Hell, if MADD gets ever gets their way the oldschool version of prohibition may be like a picnic, compared to what it would be like in modern times. You think they'd let us make anything? (HomeWine making was sort of legal during prohibition as long as you didn't sell)

Look what may be happening in Canada; DUI legislation may expand to allow random breathalyzer tests

No probable cause would be necessary to be forced to breath into a tube.

Quit thinking you can run around the law....if you really want to help, then try to change the laws....Write your congress people, better yet become a congressperson. But quit thinking you can scheme your way through this.

That's what doesn't help give us a good name.

Read this for some enlightenment...It was one of our members https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/ohio-university-homebrew-festival-shut-down-140105/#post1590903

And this from just a couple weeks ago https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alabama-homebrewer-arrested-194144/?highlight=alabama

This thread has all of the links covering the bill that legalized Homebrewing...it is a good resource and a very good read.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/history-home-brewing-legalization-u-s-seeking-info-194974/


If you want to do this, contact the local liquor control commission, find out the laws, and follow the legal process and do it. Plenty of people have. All it It takes time and money.....
 
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mrkstel said:
Huh, I never thought of that. So, maybe you could sell him finished wort, have him pitch the yeast and then charge a storage fee to store the wort while it ferments.
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I doubt it. If you are charging a fee and delivering an end product that is alcoholic then it's illegal. Your end product would have to be the wort. Client takes it home and pitches the yeast. Plastic buckets are cheap so if you have to tack on an extra $15 for the bucket then I doubt it's an issue. I'm not sure how you get around the bottling issue though.

And after reading Revvy's note I guess I'll gracefully bow out of this discussion. Like I said in my first post I'm not a lawyer and don't have any knowledge of alcohol laws in any of our lovely states :)
 
Let me ask an analogous question.

If I assault you with a baseball bat and say I've played a game of softball, and knowing that playing softball is legal, have I broken the law?
 
Revvy,

I was serious when I said this was just a question that came from a co-worker. It was just a curiosity. I have NO intention of doing this. I'm sorry if it came off as a tongue in cheek question. I enjoy the hobby too much to risk jeopordizing it for everyone. And frankly, if a buddy does want a batch of my coors light clone, I would gladly brew if for him, no charge. I will gladly remove the thread if you think it will cause problems.

Sorry,

mrkstel
 
By the way, it's not the atf that deals with this stuff anymore, hasn't been since 9-11. after 9-11 they don't care about a bunch of monshiners and homebrewers these days...it's all fertilizer bombs and "crotch rockets" now.

The beer/wine/spirits have been handed over to the TTB...The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau

It's ALL about the taxes now....

So if you are going to break any laws you might as well know which branch is going to come after you.
 
You could give your client a 5 gallon sample of your homebrew.

If your client was inclined to tip the brewer, i do believe that would be legal. Just sayin.
 
remilard said:
Let me ask an analogous question.

If I assault you with a baseball bat and say I've played a game of softball, and knowing that playing softball is legal, have I broken the law?
Click to expand...

Point taken. This would be illegal and I have no interest in doing it.

Anyone know how to delete a thread?
 
Here in Jersey there are two places I believe that you can go there and make your own wine using their facilities and equipment and of course they provide direction and grapes, yeast, bottles etc I assume. I don't know if they have a liquor license though, but wouldn't that kind of be the same thing? I guess the difference is you are making your own wine instead of someone making it for you.
 
Yes. It is leagal to do this. So long as you,

Get a license, pay taxes, go through a distributor (regional) and establish your self AS A BREWERY!

It is as simple as that. ;)
 
I think you might be hitting the distinction between a brewery that does custom batches, and a homebrew.
 
why not just have them buy the ingredients and come over and use your equipment and do it themselves.
they get to learn something new, they get homebrew that they made and there's no money involved.

granted, its going to tie up a fermenter, but when you can get a bucket for 20 bucks, why not have them get their own bucket
 
jgln said:
Here in Jersey there are two places I believe that you can go there and make your own wine using their facilities and equipment and of course they provide direction and grapes, yeast, bottles etc I assume. I don't know if they have a liquor license though, but wouldn't that kind of be the same thing? I guess the difference is you are making your own wine instead of someone making it for you.
Click to expand...

The TTB governs Brew On Premises alongside state and local laws.

Revised: 2/21/03

B1: What are the guidelines if I want to use brew-on-premises facilities that are not connected to a brewery?
Federal Guidelines For Brew-On-Premises Facilities
These guidelines apply to a Brew-on-Premises facility that is not connected to a brewery.

1. A person may operate a "Brew-on-Premises" (BOP) business without qualifying as a brewery or paying excise tax on beer produced at the BOP by adults under the conditions outlined below. No Federal regulations currently apply to the operation of a BOP business.

2. Adults may produce beer at a BOP for personal or family use. Adults who use BOP facilities to make beer are governed by existing regulations in 27 CFR §§ 25.205 - 25.206, as follows:

* Adults must be 18 years of age (or other age required for the purchase of beer in the locality).
* Adults may jointly produce beer at a BOP provided other conditions are met. Adults may produce beer must for personal or family use only.
* Personal and family beer is not subject to Federal excise tax. A home brewer may produce, without payment of tax, per household, up to 100 gallons per calendar year if there is one adult residing in the household, or 200 gallons of beer per year if there are two or more adults residing in the household.
* Home brewers may remove their beer from the BOP for personal or family use, including use in organized affairs, exhibitions, or competitions (such as homemaker's contests or tastings).
* Home brewers may not produce beer for sale or offer their beer for sale.

3. Proprietors and employees of Brew-on-Premises facilities: May furnish space, brewing equipment, ingredients, bottling supplies, and advice and expertise to customers. They may also furnish unfermented wort to BOP customers. May provide certain assistance to customers including: Moving containers of beer between storage areas. Cleaning, maintenance, and repair of equipment. Climate and temperature control. Disposal of spent grains and wastes. Quality control (including laboratory analysis and tasting of beer for quality control purposes). May not provide physical assistance to, or on behalf of, customers in the production, storage, or bottling of beer; for example, employees may not ferment mash, filter or bottle beer, add sugar or other ingredients to beer, or provide other physical assistance in producing or bottling beer. May not provide non-tax paid beer to customers or prospective customers for sampling purposes.

4. You must operate Brew-on-Premises business in compliance with State and local laws. The ability to produce beer for personal or family use and without payment of tax at a BOP under Federal law does not authorize production of beer by adults, or operation of a BOP business, in violation of state or local law.

5. Operation of a BOP business in a manner contrary to the conditions outlined may cause the facility to be considered a brewery, subject to all statutory and regulatory provisions relating to brewery operation (see item # 6).

6. Under some circumstances, a TTB qualified brewery may operate a Brew-on-Premises business. All beer produced at a BOP business on brewery premises is taxable under Federal law, must be labeled with information under 27 CFR Part 25 and with the Government Warning Statement, and is subject to record keeping and other requirements. For further information regarding qualification of a brewery or operation of a BOP at a brewery, contact the National Revenue Center, Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, 550 Main Street, Room 8002 Cincinnati, OH 45202 or call toll-free at (800) 398-2282.
Click to expand...

Mighty interesting reading on brewing laws on the ttb website http://www.ttb.gov/beer/faqs.shtml#b1
 
I say if he wants your beer, you can brew at his place and he can pitch the yeast. He buys the basic equipment needed to ferment in and bottle. Give him specific instructions on how to manage the fermentation (temps and process) and then come back and help him bottle. I'm sure you guys could arrange to meet at a brewpub and discuss the brewing process further (hint hint).

And after a couple of these, he will know enough about the brewing process to do it himself if he still wants the beer.

It may be more work than brewing in your own home, but there is simply no way around transporting fermented beer around without breaking the law. In Michigan there is a 20 gallon cap on giving out homebrew.
 
Revvy...I've always wondered why you post the bartering law as it only applies to retailers that have already purchased from a distributor. It has no connection to what anyone here is asking about. Trades, samples, etc are a fact of life within the alcohol business. Of course that is producer to producer, producer to wholesaler, producer to retailer, or wholesaler to retailer. That statute is for retailer to retailer bartering.
 
mrkstel said:
Revvy,

I was serious when I said this was just a question that came from a co-worker. It was just a curiosity. I have NO intention of doing this. I'm sorry if it came off as a tongue in cheek question. I enjoy the hobby too much to risk jeopordizing it for everyone. And frankly, if a buddy does want a batch of my coors light clone, I would gladly brew if for him, no charge. I will gladly remove the thread if you think it will cause problems.

Sorry,

mrkstel
Click to expand...

I put a post like this up last month and said the same thing. That I wasn't going to do it but I was just curious about it. I got the same response...

I feel if you are brewing in his house with his ingredients you are fine. He will be paying you to "cook". Whats so wrong about that?? You are brewing in his house with his ingredients and hes paying you to do it for him. I don't see the problem. Maybe there is a law out there in regards to selling or bartering beer but I don't think it has anything to do with this. Especially if you arn't doing it on a large scale and it's just between you and your co worker.
 
There is a place in Saint Paul that does "make your own home brew" parties.

http://www.vinepark.com/

I don't know what their licensing is, but I know that they cannot serve any alcholic beverages.
How can anyone brew beer without sampling and RDWHAHBing???
 
ShortSnoutBrewing said:
Revvy...I've always wondered why you post the bartering law as it only applies to retailers that have already purchased from a distributor. It has no connection to what anyone here is asking about. Trades, samples, etc are a fact of life within the alcohol business. Of course that is producer to producer, producer to wholesaler, producer to retailer, or wholesaler to retailer. That statute is for retailer to retailer bartering.
Click to expand...

I do believe I make pretty clear in the sentence above the statute...

Revvy said:
In fact Bartering of alcohol of any type is illegal, period, even for licensed retailers.
Click to expand...

I think it relates perfectly...that BATERING for hooch is illegal no matter whether it is for a homebrewer OR in the retail industry. You may not see how it pertains, but to illustrate my point, I sure as heck do.
 
Ok, I think my question was pretty thoroughly answered. No you cannot, by any means of bartering or payment, legally charge for a home brew "service" without proper licensing and paying taxes on the produced product. Thanks for the input.
 
jonbomb said:
I feel if you are brewing in his house with his ingredients you are fine. He will be paying you to "cook". Whats so wrong about that?? You are brewing in his house with his ingredients and hes paying you to do it for him. I don't see the problem. Maybe there is a law out there in regards to selling or bartering beer but I don't think it has anything to do with this. Especially if you arn't doing it on a large scale and it's just between you and your co worker.
Click to expand...

Because you are being paid to produce beer. You can try to redefine or narrowly define what is happening, but it doesn't change how law enforcement or (more importantly) a court is going to define it. Brewing is regulated both in process and in distribution under both federal tax laws and various state regulations.

Any arrangement in which you obtain compensation -- money, goods, services, or any other monetary substitute -- for producing or distributing alcoholic beverages falls under federal excise tax rules, as well as any applicable state/local rules, which generally bans you from any activity that produces such compensation, unless you are appropriately licensed.

It doesn't matter how large or small your arrangement is; it is still illegal. Although a quiet arrangement between two people may not draw the attention of law enforcement, that does not change the legality.
 
It's only illegal if you get caught.










It's also REALLY expensive and sucky if you get caught...

It's been hinted at in the above responses, but each state has different clauses in their homebrewing laws. My state doesn't allow me to give any homebrew away, it specifically states that it must be consumed on premises, which I've posted here several times, pointing out that they also seem to allow homebrew competitions which directly violates that clause...so I reiterate, it's only illegal if you get caught...
 
I realize people are pretty touchy about the subject and the strictness of laws varies state to state. Its a delicate subject and bottom line is DONT BREAK THE LAW WHEN IT COMES TO HOMEBREWING! WE LOVE THIS HOBBY, DONT KILL THE HOBBY DUDE!

That being said, its very unlikely that you are ever going to get in trouble for brewing, bottling, and giving someone a batch of beer and them leaving cash on your table (in a state where you can give your beer away at least)... Here in WA, you can transport up to 20 gallons for tastings or competitions... although I would never ever do it, and dont make nearly enough to do so, but you could easily make a 5gallon batch, take it to your friends place, have a few, and leave with cash instead of beer.

As for the original question, again, DONT DO IT! But someone could theoretically concoct a 5 gallon "malt extract" to sell to your buddy for him to do whatever he wishes. would it be legal?, seems like it should be, you can buy hopped malt extract online, just add water and yeast! it probably is not for some stupid reason or another though... therefore DONT DO IT!

Bottom line, it is illegal and stupid to do anything that I have suggested... if people jeopardize our beloved hobby by trying to cash in on their homebrew... I'll freak the #&*% out!

There is a lot that you can probably do and get away with... but its likely illegal... dont do it...
 
I think you have muddied the water by adding in charging for services you are providing.

I am going to contradict what a lot of people are saying and say you absolutely CAN sell wort IN MOST STATES. A popular product up here in Canada are "Brewhouse Kits" (which I know are available in many states as well). The Brewhouse Kits are a giant bag of wort, you add 8L of water and pitch the yeast. The seller is selling wort with the marketing and clear intention that YOU will make it into beer however its not taxed or regulated as beer because it's not beer. Now if you sell him wort then volunteer to add yeast, watch the fermentation etc. etc. you probably transformed this into selling beer and are now illegal.

SO If you were to produce wort and sell it to a friend who took it home and pitched yeast, fermented and bottled I think you're in the clear.
IF however you "sold" it to him he pitched the yeast but kept it at your place and you "helped" bottle you've created a much stickier situation, part of the cost is now going to your labour which is producing beer.

As most of said I wouldn't make it into a business without a clear explanation and OK from legal counsel and the powers that be in your state.
 
Veinman said:
I am going to contradict what a lot of people are saying and say you absolutely CAN sell wort IN MOST STATES. A popular product up here in Canada are "Brewhouse Kits" (which I know are available in many states as well). The Brewhouse Kits are a giant bag of wort, you add 8L of water and pitch the yeast. The seller is selling wort with the marketing and clear intention that YOU will make it into beer however its not taxed or regulated as beer because it's not beer. Now if you sell him wort then volunteer to add yeast, watch the fermentation etc. etc. you probably transformed this into selling beer and are now illegal.

SO If you were to produce wort and sell it to a friend who took it home and pitched yeast, fermented and bottled I think you're in the clear.
Click to expand...

Gee, really?
You don't think that they companies that make brewhouse kits aren't bound by all manner of tax, and health and safety laws, like any food purveyor is? You don't think they have to produce it in regularly inspected facilities, and that they aren't licensed businesses, who pay taxes and license fees regularly?

It's not some guy in his basement filling 2 liter pepsi bottles with wort and taping yeast on the top and sticking a label on it. He's bound by all matter of legalities even beyond the alcohol production aspect, if it's being produced for human consumption and money is changing hands then there are LAWS to be followed.

Just like I can't get away with making tamales in by kitchen and walking down the street selling them...it's only going to be so long before the government puts a stop to it, or demands that I have regularly inspected kitchen, get business licenses, and pay taxes.

:rolleyes:
 
Gotta love the armchair lawyers. Revvy's posts are spot on. Anyone who thinks they're being clever and has found a loophole should ask themselves two things.

1: If I'm so clever and have found a loophole, how come no one else is doing it?

2: Does my clever idea make sure the appropriate taxes and whatnot are paid?

Because really, #2 is the most important thing. If I may give a little example from my practice as a defense lawyer. I had a potential client call me a while back wanting to fight a traffic ticket. It was a city that I don't practice in, but the person asked me if I had a few minutes to answer a few questions. This person had been doing a lot of his own legal research and had a whole list of bat**** crazy ideas about how speeding tickets are unconstitutional and all sorts of other crap that will never stand up in court. Whenever I tried to tell the caller why they were wrong, they would just move on to another and equally wrong point.

Finally, to end the conversation, I asked my caller, "Even if everything you told me is 100% gospel truth, where are you going to find a judge that is going to rule in your favor and end the flow of traffic ticket money to their city?" That actually got him to be quiet for a minute and think about it.

Realistically, unless you basically turned your homebrew set up into an unlicensed brewery, the chances of getting caught are pretty slim. But if you do, do you really want to be explaining to the IRS and TTB why they haven't been getting their cut?
 
winstonofbeer said:
If someone wants your beer, and you are willing to make it for them...Great.

Hand them the list of what you need, Send them down to the local homebrew
Click to expand...

cruckin78 said:
You could give your client a 5 gallon sample of your homebrew.

If your client was inclined to tip the brewer, i do believe that would be legal. Just sayin.
Click to expand...

mb2696 said:
Unfortunately, even that may be technically illegal. In VA, it is illegal to GIVE AWAY more than a six-pack to one person in one year. In NE, homebrew must be "made solely for the use of the maker and his or her family and guests."

Info about each state here: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes
Click to expand...

As was mentioned, in some states it's even illegal to take homebrew out of your home. You can't take it even to a campground with your tent because you're out of your "home". In some states, you can't even give it away to friends. In some states, you can give away one six pack per person per year as a gift. In some states, you can give away alot, as long as you don't go over your yearly allowed amount- in most states that's 200 gallons per year per household.

In some states, homebrewing is still illegal.

It's understandable to want to circumvent the rules, but keep in mind that a forum like this cannot and will not condone doing anything illegal.

Selling/bartering/donating/accepting donations/etc for homebrew is usually illegal.
 
Revvy said:
Gee, really?
Just like I can't get away with making tamales in by kitchen and walking down the street selling them...it's only going to be so long before the government puts a stop to it, or demands that I have regularly inspected kitchen, get business licenses, and pay taxes.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Crap, crap, crap. I'm about to contradict revvy. Forgive me, sir.

First of all, trying to accomplish this with something obviously intended to become alcoholic is retarded and stupid (sorry I'm not PC).

However, old ladies do this a lot around here. It's usually burritos instead of tamales, but they go to work sites and sell their food out of Coleman coolers in the back of their cars. I know for a fact that the ones I'm aware of pay no tax (not even sales tax!), because they are viewed as little old ladies selling their food (at a notable profit, no less). I felt compelled to point that out.

I felt the need to say that. BUT! I know that ANY law enforcement officer would look much more suspicion and rigor at someone selling something in the alcohol realm. Even us homebrewers and wine makers are viewed in the same light as "Moonshiners" by much of the population, and every single legal scrutiny possible would be projected upon us, so don't bother selling your "wort", or "yeast samples", or bottles with "free beer", lest you invoke the full wrath of your over-religious population!

If you want to sell your beer, look into your LOCAL laws involving microbrewing. In some states, it's a small fee, an inspection from TBB and no minimum. I'm working on it here, but have to deal with a 100 bbl minimum. Look into it. If it's not feasible, give your buddy beer. And let him buy you dinner tomorrow. IF that's all legal in your local.
 
Totally. Here in Chicago, the Tamale Guy goes around to different bars throughout the night and sells Tamales out of a cooler. And crap, they're good.

Still, what I got from this thread is this, "Don't sell your homebrew. It's illegal. Also, don't try to rationalize why it SHOULD be legal. Cause Revvy ain't having none of your sh*t."
 
curlyfat said:
C
However, old ladies do this a lot around here. It's usually burritos instead of tamales, but they go to work sites and sell their food out of Coleman coolers in the back of their cars. I know for a fact that the ones I'm aware of pay no tax (not even sales tax!), because they are viewed as little old ladies selling their food (at a notable profit, no less). I felt compelled to point that out.
Click to expand...

But they are not legal, and if someone had a bug up their assess to press the issue, and want to get rid of them, the fact that they were unlicensed, un-inspectied and untaxed, would be the lynchpin to take them down. Especially if someone got sick.

Just because their doing it in the underground economy also doesn't meant that if I started to do it more mainstream, I wouldn't be busted...some folks are better a getting away with stuff than others...But my analogy still stands.

They've been trying to do that with taco carts in LA for quite some time, because the resteraunt owners are complaining. But most of those are licensed and inspected, so that doesn't always work.

But it doesn't matter, change the food metaphor to something else if it makes you happy then, baking cookies for chrissakes, the point is to conduct business where food is concerned there is all manner of state, local and even federal laws that have to be followed in order to do it legitimately. And if it's not legit, then it's illegal,

The Canadian wort guy is a fool is he thinks that business isn't regulated. Was all that I was saying.
 
I should have added in my post that you needed to conform to health and safety laws I figured that was a given, clearly it wasn't. Obviously Revvy is right your state would likely classify this as food and you'd need to pass health inspections etc. And of course you'd have to pay business tax that is a given every state has their own business tax laws.

However the debate was not about that, it was about the legality of selling homebrew in different stages of production. I was simply making the argument that selling pre-made yet unfermented wort would not violate the law with regards to selling alcohol and giving a similar yet commercial example of a company doing it.
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with these conversations. They are fun.

If you let him pitch the yeast then I can't see anything in the law that would make it illegal. If it were, then homebrew supply shops would be breaking the law in selling you extract and the other supplies. Obviously they aren't. If YOU pitch the yeast then you are potentially opening yourself up to prosecution. It could still be arguable but you would have to be prepared to put up a defense.
 

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