I brew quite regularly and almost always use dry yeasts. Now that I have brewed with Windsor a several times I have seen a reliable trend. Fast and hard for about 24 hours then it gives up before intended gravity has been reached. But when swirled or agitated and/or energizer is added, it will finish making the beer. It tastes good but I no longer trust it. Do you agree? Nottingham is way better it seems.
I think I don't trust Windsor...
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BuffaloSabresBrewer
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Never used it before but I can say Ive never had bad results with Nottingham.
I hate notty...especially the never flocculating "krauzen kurdels"....To me it never clears.....I had so much crap come through my autosiphon when bottling...luckily I have a dip tube in the bottling bucket, so it kept most of it from getting in my bottles.
I just brewed with Windsor for the first time (that porter turned out fine), then I washed and harvest the yeast and just pitched some of it into an ordinary bitter...just to see what it would do...I had only about 6 hours lag time (but even during that time I could see a layer of krauzen forming) then it took off fine. But I will say it has to be one of the ugliest a$$ krauzens I have ever seen......
Now I aerate with an o2 stone for 2 solid minutes. SO that might overcome any tendency to stall...we'll see.
I just brewed with Windsor for the first time (that porter turned out fine), then I washed and harvest the yeast and just pitched some of it into an ordinary bitter...just to see what it would do...I had only about 6 hours lag time (but even during that time I could see a layer of krauzen forming) then it took off fine. But I will say it has to be one of the ugliest a$$ krauzens I have ever seen......
Now I aerate with an o2 stone for 2 solid minutes. SO that might overcome any tendency to stall...we'll see.
Mutilated1
Beer Drenched Executioner
There is nothing wrong with Windsor, its not supposed to finish as dry as Nottingham. If you're wanting it to finish dry and you're using Windsor then you're using the wrong yeast. Now if you want to leave behind some sweetness and gravity in the finished beer Windsor is the right choice.
agreed...and revvy, my nottingham has ALWAYS finished very clear. it is just that, a highly attenuative yeast that finishes clear and flocculates well.
There are always chunks on the top that get sucked up into the secondary, tho, but they settle out quickly. perhaps you are only using a primary? it seems to always leave a layer from the krausen so perhaps a secondary (or more time) is necessary for complete flocculation with notty.
Yeah, remember I am the king of month long primaries
So if I had racked it over it would have been better then?If I recall I have only used it twice...once back when I was a noob and I always secondaried (and I remember the cottage cheese krauzen, but not taking it with me)....and on an experimental 2.5 gallon batch a couple weeks ago....that was the one that surprised me with so many curdles on top, that went with me to the bottling bucket, as opposed to on the yeastcake...but being that it was an experiment, I only left it in primary for an extra 3-4 days after fermentation had ceased....
yeah, i know the curdles you're talking about. i've only kegged a couple of times without the secondary when using nottingham, and it had sat for well over a month. i think if you used a secondary, anything sucked up would settle out and you wouldn't have a problem.
look at that, i found a reason you MUST use a secondary!
(i'm sure a longer primary would EVENTUALLY fix that, too)
look at that, i found a reason you MUST use a secondary!
(i'm sure a longer primary would EVENTUALLY fix that, too
)
I like using Windsor for some of my mild ale recipes since it attenuates less and I usually want that residual sweetness. I found that I needed to include a bit of yeast nutrient in my brews with that yeast as I had the same problems you did. I add it in at pitching time, after I started doing that it would rock on through to the end just like Notty.
Oh and Notty FTW! That particular yeast army rocks and it's in probably 75% of my brews!
Oh and Notty FTW! That particular yeast army rocks and it's in probably 75% of my brews!
earlytimes
Well-Known Member
My first few batches using windsor all finished high - about 1.020 or maybe a little lower, although one finished at 1.022. I hesitated to bottle that one, but it turned out fine. My last batch with windsor finished at 1.010! I couldn't believe it, but like the OP said, I was swirling the fermenter just about every day to keep that yeast working. I'm ok with it and will be using it again, but not on a regular basis.
uglygoat
Well-Known Member
mine are clear after two weeks in primary with notty. it forms a solid yeast cake on the bottom that you really have to swirl to break up.
point being, if you are getting hazy beer with not. then check out your chilling process post boil and get it cool faster. irish moss works wonders too. those big clumps are synonymous with a highly flocculating yeast, one that clears, especially if you chill it bulk.
point being, if you are getting hazy beer with not. then check out your chilling process post boil and get it cool faster. irish moss works wonders too. those big clumps are synonymous with a highly flocculating yeast, one that clears, especially if you chill it bulk.
wolfboy
Active Member
I also found Windsor worked really fast, within 24 hours in warm summer room-temperature. I brewed an 6.5% IPA with it and the yeast gave decent results:the beer still have some residual body and very slight sweetness to it, which is appealing. Will use it again, but I will also use Nottingham.
My job is done before I even arrive:
You have been advised well.
You have been advised well.
Tonedef131
Well-Known Member
You guys are all scaring me. I am brewing up a 10 gallon batch of an English style IPA this saturday and I am planning on using S-04 in 5 gal and Windsor in the other 5 to see which I like better. But with you guys getting FG like 1.020 I am scared!
You should never be scared...especially of experimenting...isn't that the point of doing it, to see which you like better? So if it comes out at 1.020...It will still be beer. ANd comparing it to the s-04 you might like it better.
ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
I have a couple packs of Windsor and Munich but haven't used either of them yet. I've neter had any of the problems with Nottingham brought up by others in this thread. Nottingham is the king of dry yeast, IMO.
Tonedef131
Well-Known Member
Oh I am doing it, experimentation is the reason I brew. But 1.020 seems awfully high to bottle.
ohiobrewtus
Well-Known Member
I've bottled beer that finished at 1.020 before and didn't have any problems. If you get much higher than that you could be asking for bottle bombs though.
I trust Windsor to do exactly what it is advertised to do.
Brewing Properties
• Quick start to fermentation, which can be completed in 3 days above 17°C.
• Moderate attenuation, which will leave a relatively high gravity.
• Fermentation rate, fermentation time and degree of attenuation is dependent on inoculation density, yeast handling, fermentation temperature and the nutritional quality of the wort.
• Non-flocculent strain, but some settling can be promoted by cooling and use of fining agents and isinglass.
It sounds like you're looking for a Safale S-04 or Danstar's Nottingham.
Brewing Properties
• Quick start to fermentation, which can be completed in 3 days above 17°C.
• Moderate attenuation, which will leave a relatively high gravity.
• Fermentation rate, fermentation time and degree of attenuation is dependent on inoculation density, yeast handling, fermentation temperature and the nutritional quality of the wort.
• Non-flocculent strain, but some settling can be promoted by cooling and use of fining agents and isinglass.
It sounds like you're looking for a Safale S-04 or Danstar's Nottingham.
I wouldn't use Windsor in an IPA, I doubt it will give you the results you're hoping for. In an English style IPA you can't go wrong with Nottingham, it will dry it out sufficiently and also give you the esters you're looking for in an English ale.
Tonedef131
Well-Known Member
I can't find Nottingham anywhere presently.
Is there a shortage in the US right now or something? I don't have any trouble up here. S-04 would be an excellent substitute from what I've heard, I've never used it though.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
S-04 is a great yeast- I use it for my English brews, since I had the same issues with Windsor crapping out on me, and S-04 attenuates more (which is what I wanted). A better sub for Nottingham might be the US-05, a bit cleaner and still highly attenuative.
US-05 is an American ale yeast, it would be lacking in the yeast characteristics you actually want in an English ale.
Big10Seaner
Well-Known Member
Yep, I've been patiently waiting for some Nottingham for a month or so now. I don't know what's going on.
elkdog
Well-Known Member
It is, but my thinking was that Nottingham is so clean that it might be closer to the Chico strain than to a "classic" English yeast. I use the 04 more myself.
Nottingham is well suited to English ales. I use it almost exclusively.
wildwest450
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There is around my area, my far away LHBS said they don't no when they'll have it again. AHS is sold out also, their site say's August 8th I believe.
Csuho
Well-Known Member
the time i used windsor i think i didn't have too but i got more to try. as for the notty shortage i think it was something to do with danstar changing the place where its made from canada to austria or something like that.
wildwest450 if u go to louisville at all the liquor barn up there has some well they did a week ago.
wildwest450 if u go to louisville at all the liquor barn up there has some well they did a week ago.
