Nelson Sauvin IPA?

Help me build a recipe.

I'd like to do a Nelson Sauvin IPA, but I have limited access to malts. There is only one home brew shop in Vienna, and it's more of a bottle store than anything. At this point I'd rather just go with what he has than to order things online and pay for the shipping.

For the base malt I'll be using Pils. I also have the only two caramel malts offered by the local shop, but I'm not really sure which ones they are. The guy at the store didn't know, so he made a few calls and came back and told me that the one has an SRM of 10 and the other an SRM of 150. Beyond that, he couldn't really tell me anything.

I'd also like to use oats in this like Mikkeller did because I liked what it did for the mouth-feel. I suppose I could just get those at the grocery store.

I also have a bag of carabelge, but I'm not sure if I should use it in this batch.

In the end, I'll use only nelson sauvin hops and US-05.

So for a 6.6 gal batch, what would do?

Given those malts available,

80% pilsener,
10% crystal-10
3% oats
3% carabelge
3% table sugar
1% crystal 150 (Or maybe ditch this entirely).

1oz NS @ 90min
.5oz NS @ 45min
.5oz NS @ 1min
1oz NS @ dryhop for 7 days.

Ferment with WLP001/Wyeast 1056/Safale US-05.

Cheers.

Make an IPA

80-85% pilsener
5-10% carabelge (which will sort of be like a tame crystal 15)
5-10% aromatic honey @ mid-whirlpool (160-180 F)

90-15-0 Hop Schedule

Really focus on those late additions.

Dryhop for 10 days with 3-4 oz. for a 6.6 gallon batch.

You guys really think that the 150 is a bad idea?

I'd also like to note that I'm worried that the malts are old. I really don't think they sell much to homebrewers.

150 will contribute a lot to color, so if you do use it, use it sparingly.

The idea of using table sugar or honey is a little strange for me right now. This will be my first all grain, and I'd really rather not do anything too special with this one. Is there a way to do without those two things?

This was the Mikkeller recipe that I was trying to copy if it helps anything:

11.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) UK (1.0 SRM) Grain 68.05 %
1.80 lb Cara-Munich Malt II (45.0 SRM) Grain 10.65 %
1.80 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 10.65 %
1.80 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.65 %
2.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 44.5 IBU
2.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [11.00 %] (20 min) Hops 36.0 IBU

loetz said:

The idea of using table sugar or honey is a little strange for me right now. This will be my first all grain, and I'd really rather not do anything too special with this one. Is there a way to do without those two things?

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those are used to help dry out the beer - you can mash low and go easy on the crystal malts and other non fermentables and you'll be just fine

Nelson is a very potent hop IME and usually has a fairly high AA% - i'd run the numbers before adding 1oz for 90min, you'll likely have a very high IBU

90min boil is advised for pils malt but i usually still start with a 60min addition when doing longer boils - of course everyone has their own methods

i personally would go something like
~30-40 IBU at 60min (whatever you need to make up for rest of IBU needed to reach your target)
1oz at 20min
1oz at 10min
1oz at flameout
1-2oz dry hop

this should give you a very potent hop flavor and aroma - you can scale down the 20 and 10min additions if you want something more subtle

try to target the IBU:GU ratio around 1:1 for IPAs

as long as the grains in the store are uncrushed and kept in a somewhat sealed container you are probably ok on freshness

pericles said:

Given those malts available,
80% pilsener,
10% crystal-10
3% oats
3% carabelge
3% table sugar
1% crystal 150 (Or maybe ditch this entirely).

1oz NS @ 90min
.5oz NS @ 45min
.5oz NS @ 1min
1oz NS @ dryhop for 7 days.

Click to expand...

If I went with this and used the table sugar, when would I add it to the wort? During the boil?

terrapinj said:

as long as the grains in the store are uncrushed and kept in a somewhat sealed container you are probably ok on freshness

Click to expand...

Yea, they had the malts in fermentation buckets, but the hops were just sitting out on a shelf! Lucky for me I ordered the hops off the internet in advance.

Yes add the table sugar to the boil...15 mins before the end should do.

If I went with this and used the table sugar, when would I add it to the wort? During the boil?

Click to expand...

I like to add table sugar by making a simple syrup 5 days into fermentation (in a sanitized container with pre-boiled water) and then adding it to the fermenter. The reason I do that is because brewing yeast can lose its ability to ferment maltose (the sugar we make with grains) in just a few generations if it is exposed to simple sugars like dextrose, fructose, or glucose. By waiting a few days to add the table sugar, you ensure that your yeast has time to ferment the the majority of the malt sugars before it goes to town on the simple sugars.

Also, I looked at your Mikkeller recipe, and I strongly recommend that you use a 90-minute boil. Pilsener malt is notorious for producing DMS, and homebrewers often avoid that by increasing their boil time.

Yes add the table sugar to the boil...15 mins before the end should do.

Click to expand...

I should clarify that Smiller's advice isn't bad; adding table sugar during the boil, exactly when he recommends, is completely standard. My own procedure is a little out-of-the-ordinary, but it works for me.

Cool! I'm going to do this.

Im going to use regular oats from the grocery store. I need to cook these before I put them in the mash, right?

10.25 lb 2 row
1 lb crystal 60
mash at 150

1.5 oz Nelson Sauvin at 60 min
.5 oz Nelson Sauvin at 15 min
.5 oz Nelson Sauvin at 5 min
dry hop with 1 oz Nelson Sauvin

Ferment with 1056/001

jbsg02 said:

10.25 lb 2 row
1 lb crystal 60
mash at 150

1.5 oz Nelson Sauvin at 60 min
.5 oz Nelson Sauvin at 15 min
.5 oz Nelson Sauvin at 5 min
dry hop with 1 oz Nelson Sauvin

Ferment with 1056/001

Click to expand...

Thanks for the recipe, but that's not really helpful considering what I said about the caramel malts in the original post.

So, about those oats. You have to cook them before you put them in the mash, right? They're normal oats from the grocery store. Not flaked oats from a brew shop.

Hey Loetz,

How did this turn out? Am interested in a single hop NS IPA myself so am interested to hear how it went.

I was very unimpressed with the Nelson IPA from Widmer.

Not sure if that speaks to the hop or the brewery (which routinely brews sub-par beers, at least for Portland standards)

joelireland said:

Hey Loetz,

How did this turn out? Am interested in a single hop NS IPA myself so am interested to hear how it went.

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I went with:

Pils - 11.11 pounds
CaraHell - 1.6 pounds
CaraBelge - 1.6 pounds
Oats - 1.6 pounds

.5oz Nelson Sauvin 60 min.
.7oz Nelson Sauvin 20 min.
.7oz Nelson Sauvin 10 min.
.7oz Nelson Sauvin 5 min.


It was OK. I should have bumped up the late hop additions. It would have had more of the fruity flavor.

Honestly if the dude had to make a call to see which crystal malts he had and had the hops sitting at room temp, I would try to find ingredients elsewhere. I know that's not helpful if you don't have much around but it sounds like you're not getting anything close to fresh.

At worst, if you had to order online you could buy in larger amounts and probably save in the long run.

Edit: Bah, old thread for the lose.

JesperX said:

Honestly if the dude had to make a call to see which crystal malts he had and had the hops sitting at room temp, I would try to find ingredients elsewhere. I know that's not helpful if you don't have much around but it sounds like you're not getting anything close to fresh.

At worst, if you had to order online you could buy in larger amounts and probably save in the long run.

Edit: Bah, old thread for the lose.

Click to expand...

Well, it's old but not irrelevant.

The last time I didn't have the option to order online since I didn't have time to wait around for things to be shipped. I don't have a fermentation chamber, so I rely on my apartment keeping an ambient temperature of 18C. If I'd waited much longer, I would have missed my window.

I'm about to buy some malts for my next batch and I will not be going back to him. I'll just have to pay for shipping.

loetz said:

I went with:

Pils - 11.11 pounds
CaraHell - 1.6 pounds
CaraBelge - 1.6 pounds
Oats - 1.6 pounds

.5oz Nelson Sauvin 60 min.
.7oz Nelson Sauvin 20 min.
.7oz Nelson Sauvin 10 min.
.7oz Nelson Sauvin 5 min.


It was OK. I should have bumped up the late hop additions. It would have had more of the fruity flavor.

Click to expand...

if you re-brew this i would cut down on the crystal malts. you're slightly over 20%, which is the max you want in most brews. since you want to be featuring the hops here, i would have cut them down to 10% and used more base malt. also, 10% oats is a little on the high side. i would have aimed for 5% max.