idea for yeast profiles

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Thanlin

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Background: I was trying to look up the operational ranges for particular yeast strains from given labs. I have a few homebrew shops in the area so I have plenty of options when it comes to yeast. However there was nothing talking about operational efficiencies at various temperatures and pitching rates. Even on this forum I got an answer of it could and not how it would turn out. I want a more scientific solution and answer to make better beer.

Proposal: to get profiles for each strain of yeast from each major lab and create a speadsheet showing the performance of each yeast strain.

Problem: It would take around a hundred data points for all yeast strains meaning over several thousand batches of beer to test them all. Impossible in just about anyone's lifetime for all strains. I highly doub't that even the labs have been able to do a live test like this.(I sent an e-mail to a lab two nights ago and have yet to hear back)

Solution: have as many homebrewers as possible look back at their brew logs and submit their OG, FG, Pitch temp, Primary High Temp, Primary Low Temp, secondary high/low and any off flavors on a scale from one to ten.

Need: Buy in from you guys to collect enough data points.

How: I would post a yeast and people would look back through their brew sheets to profile each yeast.

Product: I would make the sheet available on this forum.

What do you guys think?
 
So much more goes into flavor/off flavor and final gravity than just yeast...wort composition, wort nutrient levels, wort pH, brewing/mash water chemistry, pitching rates, yeast health, wort O2 levels. All of the above and more affect the final product, so focusing on yeast alone isn't very helpful. I say pitch the yeast in the wort and if you get good beer then don't worry too much about it. The information available on the yeast labs' websites are usually enough to let you know attenuation and a fermentation temperature range.
 
True, while I keep a lot of data on my brews(not the first dozen batches) I do not expect every brewer to do so, but the listed data points are ones that most would have. By getting the extreame data points an different end results you can control statistically for wort composition and other factors keeping in mind most people don't brew a lager with a weizen yeast and the like you would end up with most data points falling in the optimal range but the extremes would lend onsite to the everyday homebrewers available tools.
 
On a side note, do the Amish drink? I can only assume there are Amish in Amish county.
 
Im going to send the Amish Mafia after them
Wheres Levi's number I got it around here somewhere
 
Background: I was trying to look up the operational ranges for particular yeast strains from given labs. I have a few homebrew shops in the area so I have plenty of options when it comes to yeast. However there was nothing talking about operational efficiencies at various temperatures and pitching rates. Even on this forum I got an answer of it could and not how it would turn out. I want a more scientific solution and answer to make better beer.

Proposal: to get profiles for each strain of yeast from each major lab and create a speadsheet showing the performance of each yeast strain.

Problem: It would take around a hundred data points for all yeast strains meaning over several thousand batches of beer to test them all. Impossible in just about anyone's lifetime for all strains. I highly doub't that even the labs have been able to do a live test like this.(I sent an e-mail to a lab two nights ago and have yet to hear back)

Solution: have as many homebrewers as possible look back at their brew logs and submit their OG, FG, Pitch temp, Primary High Temp, Primary Low Temp, secondary high/low and any off flavors on a scale from one to ten.

Need: Buy in from you guys to collect enough data points.

How: I would post a yeast and people would look back through their brew sheets to profile each yeast.

Product: I would make the sheet available on this forum.

What do you guys think?

I think that's a great idea, and an enterprising one. I have a feeling, though, that it will be a tough one to carry out.
There are so many variables that go into how a beer turns out as mentioned above, along with the skills of the respective brewer, that your data would be unreliable.
If you read Chris White's book about yeast you will see that the labs have done that kind of testing with controlled conditions, both in their own labs and in conjunction with commercial brewers to get their data points.
Another option for you would be to use the search function on HBT and insert different yeast strains and find results. There is a thread about S-04, for example, with tons of individuals' information about performance, and one about 3711 too.
Or, have at it and try a test with something common, like Wy1056.
 
Yeah, as interesting as it is, you have no control over the other brewers. You'd need to do it all yourself, controlling things as tightly as possible, for it to have any real validity.
 
White Labs and Wyeast have collected the flavor-temperature relationships of Begium yeasts and it is in two tables in Brew Like a monk.

It's here: Brew Like a Monk

If any one is interested I have a spread sheet that is a culmination of information from White Labs, Wyeast, Fermentalist, and a few others. However, it's just attenuation and temperature range.

Once I have narrowed down my yeast selection I can search this site and find a wealth of information. I've always been able to mine enough information from threads here, and piece that together with experience and the manufactures information to figure out a fermentation schedule.
 
The Belgian yeasts are especially problematic to get data for. Attenuation is way off the mark when used in real world scenarios. Flavors are so different in high gravity vs low gravity, low temp vs high temp.

A few examples.

Wyeast 1388. Published attenuation 74-78%. When used in a typical golden strong with 10-20% simple sugar, attenuation can exceed 90%. Published flocclation "low." In reality, it is the lowest of any yeast I've tried. I'd put it at one notch above "none." Underpitching this yeast leads to horrifying solventy character.

BLAM has a nice chart in it for profile vs temp, but you could make a better chart with a radar diagram. Its much more involved to make however.

I applaud the effort. Its quite an undertaking.
 
The Belgian yeasts are especially problematic to get data for. Attenuation is way off the mark when used in real world scenarios. Flavors are so different in high gravity vs low gravity, low temp vs high temp.

A few examples...

BLAM has a nice chart in it for profile vs temp, but you could make a better chart with a radar diagram. Its much more involved to make however.

I applaud the effort. Its quite an undertaking.

I was given as a gift for my birthday last year "Brew Like a Monk" mostly because it was the only brewing book that was explicitly catholic that my mother in law could find. (A really good book I recommend it for every brewer as well as over every other book she has given me.) In many ways I found these tables enlightening and interesting because they have tables from the manufacturers that they themselves do not publish on their website.

This is my inspiration but I think it should be expanded. Many people seem to be worried about wort composition. while I feel that acidity and fermentable sugars would be important the ability for the average home brewer to test and/or record such data would be ridiculous. however I believe that if the wort compensation where similar like how most yeast are tested they only produce data for that match and not the yeast itself. the power in the data(downside you have to collect significantly more data to come up with an accurate conclusion let alone a graph) would be to identify the property of the strain not of the strain in limited conditions. It would still leave artistic license to the brewer but give him another option with which to brew.

more to follow in a separate post...
 
I've been doing research into this to try and discover the thresholds of the genus Saccharomyces. and have yet to find it. there is more knowledge and data regarding Saccharomyces Cerevisiae and yet more on Saccharomyces uvarum.(carlesberga/pastuersomething or other) and yet while there is data on how low a temp a single e. Coli cell cal live there is no general temp range in which Saccharomyces Cerevisiae can work effectively. we have optimum temp ranges that have been tested and the experiments running those have been constructed around known norms. however it would be helpful to know what these yeast would do in the conditions the brewer has present for both the home brewer and the constrained micro-brewer.

That being said I only see tepid response from the forum and I would need buy in from about 40% of the brewers in this forum(complete guess) to even come close to figuring out a profile from the most common yeast strain.
 
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