using a trash bag on my primary

GoldenShowerGladiator · Nov 8, 2011

so i brewed up what will hopefully be a delicious imperial stout this last sunday. my wife's step-dad has been homebrewing for about 15 years. i knew fermentation was going to be strong and i didn't want my primary buckets lid to shoot off like it did a few years ago when i did a big stout. i've gotten in the habit of using a blow off tube which always does the trick. well, he told me that he didn't think a blow off tube would be able to sustain the fermentation with this one so he told me to throw a trash bag over the top of the bucket and put a rubber band around it (not too tight so gas could escape). i don't normally doubt what he says but i feel ill about this. i know the krausen has to be touching the top of the bag. am i looking at a good chance of having an infected beer when all is said and done?

BetterSense · Nov 8, 2011

You could sanitize the bag.

Really, I don't understand all these blowoff issues. If you are having blowoff, it sounds to me like you need a bigger fermenter. I never understood people who use blowoff hoses and routinely get massive blowoff. It's such a mess. Usually it's people fermenting 5 gallon batches in 6 gallon carboys. I ferment 4.5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon bucket and I've never had to use anything but an airlock on even the most vigorous fermentation.

audger · Nov 8, 2011

am i looking at a good chance of having an infected beer when all is said and done?

if you used proper sanitation, then its possible that the beer will be fine. you can make decent beer using a lot of... "uncommon" techniques. i would not get in the habbit of regularly using garbage bags though.

you probably would have been fine with a regular blow off tube.

shortyjacobs · Nov 8, 2011

How could a blowoff tube not "contain" it? I've used only siphon tubing as a blowoff with very vigorous fermentations, (for example, 5 gal wort in a 5 gal corny, fermenting STRONG), without issue...

bja · Nov 8, 2011

IMO, if you're getting a very vigorous fermentation, you're fermenting too warm.

wildwest450 · Nov 8, 2011

BetterSense said:
I ferment 4.5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon bucket and I've never had to use anything but an airlock on even the most vigorous fermentation.

I don't understand people who would take the time to brew and not make enough to fill a keg. That being said, I control my fermentation temps and ferment 5.5 gallons in a 6.5 gallon carboy, I rarely get blowoff, and if I do it's a very small amount.

_

BetterSense · Nov 8, 2011

I don't keg; I bottle, and my kettle is only 7.5 gallons so 4.5 gallon batches work out perfectly for me.

Seven · Nov 8, 2011

BetterSense said:
Really, I don't understand all these blowoff issues. If you are having blowoff, it sounds to me like you need a bigger fermenter. I never understood people who use blowoff hoses and routinely get massive blowoff. It's such a mess. Usually it's people fermenting 5 gallon batches in 6 gallon carboys. I ferment 4.5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon bucket and I've never had to use anything but an airlock on even the most vigorous fermentation.

I get blow off regularly and yes it's probably because I fill my carboys and buckets too full. Is it an issue? Not at all when you plan for it and take the necessary precautions, i.e., use a blowoff tube.

Just because it hasn't happened to you (yet) doesn't mean it won't ever happen to you.

BetterSense said:
I don't keg; I bottle, and my kettle is only 7.5 gallons so 4.5 gallon batches work out perfectly for me.

Brew 5 or 5.5 gallon batches and you'll get some blowoff one day for sure.

Shockerengr · Nov 8, 2011

RDWHAHB.

As long as you practiced basic sanitation (and probably even if you didn't) you should be fine. Bacteria and such don't have legs, and the bag will do a good job of keep dust out.

Beer is remarkably resilient.

BetterSense · Nov 8, 2011

Don't people worry about what effect blowoff is having on the beer, though? I always assumed that the beer is supposed to stay in the fermenter. Does th stuff thst blows off into the catch jar just not matter in terms of taste or anything?

abarhan · Nov 8, 2011

I was under the impression that too much head space was bad, is this not accurate. I am about to brew my first batch and I planned on a 5gl batch with a 6.5gl carboy is this not big enough? What size is ideal for a primary and secondary?

BetterSense · Nov 8, 2011

I don't see how too much headspace could hurt anything. You can ferment in open vessels, and that would be "infinite" headspace.

day_trippr · Nov 8, 2011

abarhan said:
I was under the impression that too much head space was bad, is this not accurate. I am about to brew my first batch and I planned on a 5gl batch with a 6.5gl carboy is this not big enough? What size is ideal for a primary and secondary?

Head space isn't an issue during primary fermentation, as yeast need oxygen to propagate to numbers large enough to handle the work ahead, and then they fill the space with CO2.

Otoh, for secondary and storage vessels, head space filled with air is detrimental. You can get away with an oversized vessel if you purge it of oxygen, but otherwise the closer the "fit" between vessel volume and batch volume, the better.

Primary fermenting a five gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon vessel is a good fit. But if you rack the fermented brew to the same size vessel for secondary or aging, it's oversized and requires purging...

Cheers!

SixFoFalcon · Nov 9, 2011

BetterSense said:
Don't people worry about what effect blowoff is having on the beer, though? I always assumed that the beer is supposed to stay in the fermenter. Does th stuff thst blows off into the catch jar just not matter in terms of taste or anything?

The stuff that blows off is discarded. So the negative is that you lose some volume.

purple82 · Jun 8, 2014

GoldenShowerGladiator said:
so i brewed up what will hopefully be a delicious imperial stout this last sunday. my wife's step-dad has been homebrewing for about 15 years. i knew fermentation was going to be strong and i didn't want my primary buckets lid to shoot off like it did a few years ago when i did a big stout. i've gotten in the habit of using a blow off tube which always does the trick. well, he told me that he didn't think a blow off tube would be able to sustain the fermentation with this one so he told me to throw a trash bag over the top of the bucket and put a rubber band around it (not too tight so gas could escape). i don't normally doubt what he says but i feel ill about this. i know the krausen has to be touching the top of the bag. am i looking at a good chance of having an infected beer when all is said and done?

If you are able to secure the trash bag with a few rubber bands, that will help it be more secure. You don't want it too tight like you said but if you just get a few rubber bands that are loose enough, you'll have a stronger, more firm binding that isn't tight at the same time.

bja · Jun 9, 2014

purple82 said:
If you are able to secure the trash bag with a few rubber bands, that will help it be more secure. You don't want it too tight like you said but if you just get a few rubber bands that are loose enough, you'll have a stronger, more firm binding that isn't tight at the same time.

This happened 3 years ago.

Hello · Jun 9, 2014

bja said:
IMO, if you're getting a very vigorous fermentation, you're fermenting too warm.

That is incorrect. I've fermented at the correct temperature and had a great deal of blowoff. I had 1 gallon in a 2 gallon bucket and still had blow off. My yeast temp range was 64-72 and I was fermenting at 66. It was not too hot and I had blowoff. Ergo, this information on fermenting too hot if you're getting vigorous fermentation is wrong. My yeast were healthy, I had more than enough cells, I aerated well, and it was a 1.110 beer.

BetterSense said:
Don't people worry about what effect blowoff is having on the beer, though? I always assumed that the beer is supposed to stay in the fermenter. Does th stuff thst blows off into the catch jar just not matter in terms of taste or anything?

Nope. Krausen drops but really it's just a slight loss of volume. It would be nice not to have it happen but if I have 4.5-5 gallons in a 6.5 fermenter and it happens to push out through my airlock then I am glad it is something going out and not something going in.

OP: I assume you are okay as long as you sanitized the bag. At this point you just need to ride it out.

bja · Jun 9, 2014

Hello said:
That is incorrect. I've fermented at the correct temperature and had a great deal of blowoff. I had 1 gallon in a 2 gallon bucket and still had blow off. My yeast temp range was 64-72 and I was fermenting at 66. It was not too hot and I had blowoff. Ergo, this information on fermenting too hot if you're getting vigorous fermentation is wrong. My yeast were healthy, I had more than enough cells, I aerated well, and it was a 1.110 beer.

Try fermenting colder. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

OP: I assume you are okay as long as you sanitized the bag. At this point you just need to ride it out.

Wow, a 3 year fermentation.

hausofstrauss · Jun 9, 2014

Vessel size arguments aside, you could add a level of comfort and use some food safe trash can liners.

http://fermware.com/fermentation-bucket-liners/

Hello · Jun 9, 2014

bja said:
Try fermenting colder. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Wow, a 3 year fermentation.

You're not getting it. 64 would be the coldest for my yeast. Yeast has a temp range that I pay attention to. 64 was not going to do much more or less than 66 would. I've fermented on the coldest end and the warmest end. You specifically said that fermentation is too hot if you get blow off and I'm pretty sure you're wrong because I will get blow off even if I am in range, mid range or even low range. Show me data, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. I promise.

bja · Jun 9, 2014

Hello said:
You're not getting it. 64 would be the coldest for my yeast. Yeast has a temp range that I pay attention to. 64 was not going to do much more or less than 66 would. I've fermented on the coldest end and the warmest end. You specifically said that fermentation is too hot if you get blow off and I'm pretty sure you're wrong because I will get blow off even if I am in range, mid range or even low range. Show me data, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. I promise.

No, you're not getting it. That range is suggested by the manufacturer. Trust me, you can and should go lower. I typically ferment about 4-5 degrees colder than the low end of the range.

redshift76 · Jun 9, 2014

bja said:
No, you're not getting it. That range is suggested by the manufacturer. Trust me, you can and should go lower. I typically ferment about 4-5 degrees colder than the low end of the range.

Why? Because YOU say so? Do you work for a production brewery or White Labs/Wyeast? There are strains that will throw strange flavors if fermented too cold also...

using a trash bag on my primary

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