First All grain coming up, advice welcome.

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ahoym8e

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SO I broke down and bought a 10 gal mash/lauter tun today, plus some grain. I have about 12 (mini-mash + 6or more lbs of ME) brews under my belt, and figured I'd make the leap.

Soon (maybe tomorrow or next weekend) I will try to make ale out of the following

9.5 lb two row
1/2 lb Cara pils
1oz cascade hops
1 oz Liberty hops.

I will be pitching back onto the yeast cake of the AAPA that will be coming out of primary whenever I decide to brew (WL cali V, by the way).

I know this is a way simple ale, but I want to set myself up for success on this first one.

Any advice is very welcome.

questions I'd have are: how much water to use? I figured 11 qts of water for the mash, and then 3.75 gallons of liquor? (I figure some water will stay in the grain, right? half a gallon maybe?

How critical is the sparge temp? I don't have an insulated hot liquor tank at the moment, so i will start my liquor off at 170, but I might lose 10 degrees or so before it's all run out... BAD or just bad?

Anything else that I am forgetting? Thanks
 
First off is to preheat your mash tun. If you don't you will be fighting temperature loss throughout the mash. I also add the strike water to the tun at about 5 degrees higher than the target temp. I then let the temp drop to the strike temp before I add the grain. The mash stays at temp much better using this method. The first thing I learned doing all grain is that it is easier to lower the mash temp than it is trying to raise it.
You are using 10 pounds of grain so as a minimum use 1 quart per pound for the mash (2 1/2 gallons). Some folks like to use more than that but I have pretty good luck at this rate. The sparge will be 1/2 gallon per pound of grain and I like to add a bit extra just in case I don't extract all the sugars (5 gallons plus add a gallon just in case). The grain absorbs approximately .1 gallons per pound of grain so about 1 gallon will be absorbed.
You will be alright using 170 degree sparge water but you might think about adding some 180 degree water to bring your mash to as close to 170 degrees as possible for the mash out. This will stop the conversion process. Either way I think you will make good beer.
What method are you going to use for the sparge? My advice is based on fly sparging. Batch spargers will want to chime in as well.
:mug:
 
Rich said most of it... I would use only 10qts of water for the mash. If you pre-heat get your strike temp up to about 170. If you are using a mash/lauter tun put the water in FIRST then add the grain. This mix shouldn't get stuck easily but I've found that if you add the water first you get less chance of a stuck mash. If you do end up too high just add some ice or an icepack. everything will be boiled so you don't have to worry about sanitizing it at this stage of the game. Once you add the water for the mashout give it a good mix to make sure you don't have any hot spots.
For the sparge water. you want it to be between 170 and 180 so get it up to 180 so if it falls you are still over 170.
Make sure you recycle enough when lautering to get it nice and clean. The first few AG's I did I didn't recycle too much. But since I have had to recycle about 1.5 gallons of wort before it was really nice and clear. I used a white bowl as I found it to be the easiest way to see how clear it really was.
Also relax! It's not that difficult! It's a lot more relaxing than an extract brew IMO!!
 
thanks guys.

for sparging I have this wand-like contraption that goes on the top of my tun and rotates. It has a base made of PVC pipe, and then what looks like brass tubing with itty bitty tiny holes drilled in it. I was just going to use it, feed water as fast as it'll go (SLOW, the holes are smaller than pinholes) and regulate the outflow of the liquid to keep the grain submerged at most times.

Please keep the suggetions coming. Preheating the tun and adding water before grain are two things I would not have thought of on my own.
 
btw rich, just noticed your location.

I lived in colorado (Denver) for a little over a year. was the best place I've ever lived.

you are fortunate to live in such a beautiful and climatically favorable spot.
 
Okay another tip! (things I have learned the hard way) If you do not have a very sturdy stirring wand get a 3/4" or greater dowel for mixing the mash. A plastic spoon will bend and not work well! You need to mix it up to keep from getting hot and cold spots!

To test the temp I use a floating thermometer that I just jam into the mash and leave it there. I wait at least 10 minutes to check the temp. It's best to leave it so you can have an accurate temp of the mash on demand.

Also on the off chance you do get a stuck mash when lautering. Keep your primary bucket handy! I've had to dump the mash into it to clean out the false bottom then dump it back in. Might not be the best way but it worked! (Chances are yours will not be stuck)
 
Sephro said:
Okay another tip! (things I have learned the hard way) If you do not have a very sturdy stirring wand get a 3/4" or greater dowel for mixing the mash. A plastic spoon will bend and not work well! You need to mix it up to keep from getting hot and cold spots!

Want to see what happens to a plastic spoon... here you go....

2560-100_0480.jpg
 
Since your not planning to do this tomorrow, I'd get the demo version of ProMash. It's a real cool program and will help you greatly in your AG attempts.

www.promash.com
 
I make a similar cream ale
8.0 ounces Cara Pils
8.0 pounds Pale 2 Row

Saaz (Bittering) 0.75 ounces
Cascade (Finishing) 1.0 ounces


It's very good... For a light summer brew.
 
Beer Snob said:
Want to see what happens to a plastic spoon... here you go....
I had the same thing happen to me. I went out and purchased a long stainless steel spoon that works much better. I wonder how many of those spoons have broken like that?
 
Oh forgot to ask... how are you connecting the false bottom or manifold to the outside world? I used regular vnyle tubbing my first AG and it softened up and disconnected! I now have high temp stuff and SS clamps just to be on the safe side.
 
RichBrewer said:
I had the same thing happen to me. I went out and purchased a long stainless steel spoon that works much better. I wonder how many of those spoons have broken like that?

The plastic paddle did not snap on AG #2 but was bending :D I was wondering when it was going to snap (stupid me of course did not have a second one just in case). Dude's paddle is awsum!
 
Beer Snob said:
Want to see what happens to a plastic spoon... here you go....

2560-100_0480.jpg
A picture is worth.... I think they run about $4 ;)

I didn't snap mine but came damn close!!! My spoon is solid so I just had to bend it back so it was straight :)
 
this is what I use... I marked it so that when I sink it in my boil I can see exactly how much I have.
mash%20stick.jpg
 
Not a bad idea at all. I marked that on the pots themselves. Worked like a charm. I suppose thats another good tip... somehow in someway you need to know how much is in the boil pot. I estimated in my first AG and was WAY off. Then I put a gauge on the pot with a perm. marker for the second one and it turned out GREAT. So one way other another you need to know how much is in there. You'll be starting with a lot and boiling some down.
 
Good luck, AG isn't that difficult and it's good fun too. I haven't read through the thread but some points off the top of my head which have probably already been mentioned:

Use a good sturdy thermometer and have a back-up. Glass thermometers break easily and digital ones can be innacurate if you get them wet. Take extra care when taking temperature measurements and you'll be fine... I use a jam thermometer incased in metal which works a treat. Getting the mash temperature is the hardest part first time so you might want to do a trial run before brew-day. Ideally you want to get it right first time, software like promash will help you calculate your strike temperature. Obviously remember to aerate well if you're doing a full boil. Account for at least a gallon of evaporation during the boil, probably more. Prepare a couple of extra gallons of sparge water.

Good luck!
 
The couple extra gallons of sparge water is a good tip as you donot want to run your mash out of water prior to geting you boil volumeprobably close to 7 gal for a 5 gal batch. It is easier to lower th mash temp than raise it you can also lower the temp by sturing vigerously , and cold water or ice it won't take much. I use Beer Smith and pro mash for all of my all grain recipes and strike temps I tend to add a couple degrees to their recomendation.

I did 25 lbs of grain and to raise it from 152 to 168-170 it took 210-208 deg water to get it their. Keeping heat on the water waiting to sparge with helps keep it warm. Even if you need to catch your runnings in a 5 gal bucket untill you get the hot sparge water out of your brew kettle.
 
ahoym8e said:
How critical is the sparge temp? I don't have an insulated hot liquor tank at the moment, so i will start my liquor off at 170, but I might lose 10 degrees or so before it's all run out... BAD or just bad?

To sparge, you want to keep the temperature of the grist and sparge water at 165 - 170 degrees. Lower temperatures will reduce efficiency, and increase the probability of a stuck sparge; while higher temperatures will cause excess tannin extraction. According to Dave Miller, you can decrease the tannin extraction by acidifying the sparge water to a pH of 5.6 or less. With your grain bill, you are unlikely to get a stuck sparge, but if you add a pound of flaked barley, you might.

If you start sparging straight ofter the mash, then your mash temperature will probably be in the low 150's, and you will need some pretty hot water to raise this to 165 - 170.

I "mash out" by adding a 1.5g of 200 F acidified water, which raises the mash to about 170. I add the water before the grain, which helps to prevent the grain bed from getting compacted (which with my system is very likely to cause a stuck sparge). After 15 minutes, I recirculate a couple of gallons before starting the sparge. The recirculation cools things down a bit.

For the sparge, I heat acidified water to 190, and add it to a 5g cooler that had been pre-warmed with hot water from the tap (about 140). By the time it has meandered though the plastic tubing and out of the sparge arm, the temperature has dropped considerably, but the grist being sparged stays below 170.

Since I started the mash out and increasing the temperature of the sparge water, my efficiency has increased by about 10%.

I have an older version of the sparge arm that you described. It works great, but has a couple of idiosyncrasies.

First, there is a big temperature drop between the HLT and the exit from the sparge arm. You need to increase the temperature of the water in the HLT to allow for this.

Second, you need (at least, I need) a considerable head of water to force any water through the sparge arm. With my set up, I need at least 2g of water in the HLT to get anything out of the sparge arm. Your mileage may differ.

I'd do some experiments to determine the temperature drop between the original temperature of the sparge water, and the outlet from the arm; and to determine how much head of water you need to get any output from the sparge arm.

Good luck.

-a.
 
Man this is fantastic advice.

Had I not started this thread I would have put the grain in the tun first, not had enough sparge water, fouled up the strike temp and worked with not hot enough sparge water.

I read a number of books/websites about AG, and they never revealed any of these practical tips, just te science and what is chemically going on with the starches and sugars and enzymes etc...

Thanks!!!

Saturday AM is the day. the HBS told me to shoot for 1.052 OG. let's see if I can come close to that.

TimK
 
I'd throw in more hops, but that's just me.

Why not just Batch Sparge.

put that grain in a bucket with a false bottom, pour your 155 degree water in, stir, let it sit for an hour, drain, pour some back, with some more 155 water, drain, you done.

gonna need a few more gallons of water than yo uwant for beer.

and don't worry about OG.
 
tomorrow mornings the day! first AG!!!

Well, a phil's sparging rotating wand thinamajib came with my tun, so I supose I ought to use it.

am a little nervous on how it is going to turn out.

the last few beers I've fermented have had a real high FG. hopefully this one'll get nice and low.

and nitro, I may dry hop an ounce of real aromatic hops if the flavor calls for it when I rack to secondary.
 
Good luck. Oh I think we forgot the most important advice there is.... drink. Put enough in the fridge tonight!
 
well you got all kinds of great advice so the only two things i can add are

>don't get blitzed while doing your first ag - i noticed there were posts encouraging you to imbibe. :D
>don't get all paranoid and hung up on all these details. doing all grain is a fairly simple process. concentrate on and understand the basic process. there will be plenty of time to hone the details.
 
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