Citrus Wheat - recipe (please review)

hey all; obviously not brewing with the seasons here - but im getting ready to make a citrus/wheat beer (all grain - Ale);

here is a recipe i made after checking out a few other threads; Shooting for something mildly in the area of "Blue Moon". some of this is what i have on hand (2 row/saaz), and just hoping it works out;

curious to hear any input. grains/hops you may use instead? am i looking good on amounts of zest? any benefit/harm to tossing some orange/lemon slices in the boil too?

yeast: US-05

5lbs 2 row - pale
1lbs flaked wheat
1lb Carapils
2lb white wheat malt

1 oz cascade @ 60
1/2 oz saaz @ 20
1/2 oz saaz @5

also added at 5 mins:
1oz fresh orange zest
1oz fresh lemon zest
.75 oz ground coriander

mash @ 150 for 1 hr

thanks all - - let me know if you think this will be good/bad and any ideas to improve.

--Beermethatbeer

The grist looks fine. I wouldn't use 05 for the yeast. You'll be missing all the yeast character of a typical Belgian style wit like Blue Moon. I personally like Wyeast 3944 but a dry wheat yeast would be fine as well if you're trying to save a few bucks.

hey Gitmoe; good call. this is one of those weirdo brews where im not really trying to fit a certain style; not technically a Wit, American Wheat Beer, Citrus/Fruit beer.

i think i was looking for a clean Ale taste, with little input from the yeast, and more from the citrus/spice. something that my wife/friends might like without getting into Belgians. I know people generally like "blue moon" - so im hoping to be at least be within 50 miles of that - - and we should all be happy.

maybe i'll split the batch and use both yeasts and see what happens.

_bmtb

Yeah right on man. I like putting English ale yeasts in recipes it doesn't belong in just because I love the profile.

I would skip the lemon slices in the boil. While enjoyed by many on the rim of a pint of wheat beer, in the boil you won't get any benefit and are likely to extract bad bitterness from the rind.

Good luck!
--LexusChris

I'd skip the lemon, and add sweet orange peel if you really want it to be more like blue moon which I feel like is more of an orange flavor than lemon. Maybe even cut the coriander back to .5oz or less.

That said, this looks more like a hybrid wheat beer anyway. Doesn't seem like a lot of wheat and you're not using a wheat yeast. I've actually wanted to try something like this, although i would definitely be using less lemon and coriander because I have a thing against lemony/acidic taste in my beer(I had a bad experience with a budweiser lemon wheat beer). Also, I'd add a half pound or so of aromatic, special roast, buscuit or victory to darken it to around 5 srm.

hey mttfrog13 - thanks for the input; i kind of merged together several other posters "citrus beer recipes" - - so this ended up with lemon zest; but i agree - - could probably do without it.

i like adding victory or biscuit malt; do you think 1lb of either would be too much? (only because i like to buy in even pounds with no leftovers); or maybe up the flaked wheat a little bit - given that i'm skipping the typical "wheat yeast"?

looking forward to brewing/tasting this one; especially in the dead of winter - when it'll be ready. (btw - i live in Buffalo, NY!)

Just some things I would do:

- Flip the pale malt and wheat malt. Use 50% or more wheat malt. 1lb of flaked wheat is good, but I would use 2lbs. Flaked wheat adds the wheat characteristics that you don't get from wheat malt.

- Don't think you need the carapils or at least not 1lb. Maybe drop that to 8oz.

- I'd drop the lemon zest and just use orange zest and coriander (I use 1/2oz in my recipes with good results, but you may like more). You'll get the spicy, citrusy flavors from the coriander. I've found that zesting 3 large oranges adds a nice orange citrus flavor, but isn't over powering.

- Cascade for bittering is a waste of good hops if you ask me. Use noble hops the entire way or a neutral hop for bittering like Magnum and a 15minute addition of Saaz.

- I would also go with a more specific Wyeast strain.

Again, these are just my suggestions for my tastes. I've brewed several wheat beers to the style you're looking for and through trial and error, these are my recommendations.

50% or more Wheat malt
10-20% flaked wheat
10% munich (some victory like you mentioned sounds good hear too)
some carapils
some pils or pale malt to finish out the grain bill

60min addition magnum or other neutral hop
15min addition saaz or other nobel hope

EDITED: do to my stupidity and sloppy typing

Personally, I would still go with a half pound. I used to order from Northernbrewer, but I stopped because they only shipped whole pounds, then I started using midwest supplies, but they only do half pounds. My last recipe and from now on, I plan on ordering from austin homebrew supply which seems like the largest beer supplier that will allow you to order grains by the ounce. This helps since I don't have a scale. They even let me order my spices like orange peel and coriander in increments of quarter ounces.

As far as upping the flaked wheat, I'm not really sure. I'm not that experienced with brewing with wheat or flaked wheat. I've seen a lot of high gravity recipes that like to throw in a pound or two of wheat. But either way, I don't think adding more wheat will help make up for the lost characteristics from not using a wheat yeast.

And there's nothing wrong with a wheat beer during the middle of winter. I just graduated a couple years ago from Syracuse U. so I know a few people from Buffalo. Here's what I just brewed yesterday. I added a bit of aromatic and crystal 10L to give it some color and slight maltiness. :-D

Boil Time: 45 min
Batch Size: 5.25 gallons
Boil Size: 3 gallons
Est. Efficiency: 65%

ESTIMATED STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 5.23%
IBU (rager): 16.79
SRM (morey): 5.07

FERMENTABLES:
Extract
3 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Wheat
1 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Pilsen

Mash
2.5 lb - Belgian Pilsner
1 lb - Flaked Oats
1 lb - Flaked Wheat
4 oz - Caramel / Crystal 10L
4 oz - Aromatic

HOPS:
0.5 oz - German Tradition (AA 6.9) for 45 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Styrian Goldings (AA 2.6) for 45 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.25 oz - German Tradition (AA 6.9) for 10 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.25 oz - Styrian Goldings (AA 2.6) for 10 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil

MASH STEPS:
1) Temperature, Temp: 155 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 6.5 qt
2) Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Amount: 6.5 qt

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 oz - Bitter Orange Peel, Time: 10 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
0.25 oz - Sweet Orange Peel, Time: 10 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil
0.25 oz - Coriander, Time: 10 min, Type: Spice, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Belgian Witbier 3944

awesome input all! just the kind of help i was looking for;

some tweaks i plan on making after taking this all into account;
*less 2 row, more wheat malt
*less carapils, adding victory malt
*no lemon; just fresh orange zest - and cutting back the coriander a bit
*might go with saaz all the way ( have a bunch on hand); or like you said - a neutral bittering hop, and a little more saaz towards the end.
*keeping the ale yeast strain; curious to see how this will come out without the traditional 'belgian/wheat yeast'.

brewing this one in a few weeks - so i'll let you know how it all works out.
__beermethatbeer

FWIW, I brewed this 3 weeks back, just tried my first sample from the keg, and its pretty damn good. It was an attempt to clone Allagash White.

5 GAL - 3.6 SRM - 19.2 IBU's
OG - 1.053 FG - 1.012

6 lbs 4.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)
0.75 oz Tettnang [6.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.25 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Orange Zest (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz Grapefruit Zest (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz Ginger, Minced (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.2 oz Chamomile (Boil 5.0 mins) (4 tea bags)
0.25 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min
1.0 pkg Forbidden Fruit (Wyeast Labs #3463)