I have 2 batches of crabapple wine going. made 2 days apart. One of them I cored all of the apples and ran em through a grinder....the other I just smashed em ( busted the apples but didn't crush seeds or anything) other than that they were made exactly alike. The one I smashed has cleared up nicely.. the one I cored and ground up looks like it has had milk poured into it. It has a milky looking haze in it. Any idea what it is and how to get rid of it... I added gelatin finings today. these have been setting a while and both have fermented dry( .994-.996) and had sorbate and sulphite added.
wine clearing question
- Thread starter OHIOSTEVE
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If you ran the apples through the grinder, the wine may never clear.
If you haven't use pectic enzyme, you could try that.
Otherwise, I'd suggest some finings. I'd probably hit it with Super Kleer KC. Especially if you've already used gelatin.
From Jack Keller's website:
It is assumed the wine will fall clear on its own within six months and perhaps another three rackings. Almost all wines will, but some may need help. Help means either cold settling or fining. It does not mean filtering, as only clear wines should be filtered. Filtering a cloudy or hazy wine will almost always clog the filters prematurely and could burn out a filter's pump.
Generally, fining agents work because they possess one charge (positive or negative) and the cloudiness is caused by something that possesses the opposite charge. Opposites attract, creating larger (and heavier) particulates, which fall into the lees. If you use the wrong fining agent, it will repel the particulate and serve no purpose. Indeed, it could exacerbate the problem.
The best -- meaning the most useful -- general fining agents are (in my opinion) Bentonite, Kieselsol, Chitosan, and Gelatin. The first two are negatively charged particles that are useful in removing proteins and some metallic compounds. The latter two are positively charged and useful in removing tannin, phenols, anthrocyanins, yeast cells, and bacteria -- all of which are negatively charged. Casein and Sparkolloid are also useful and fairly common finings. Both are positively charged agents. There are at least a couple of products out there that are two-part clarifiers. They contain both positive and negative charged finings, so if you really aren't sure what is causing the problem and you've tried pectic enzyme without success, these products will usually work. In fact, I've never had one not work for me. The one I've used most often is a product is called Super Kleer K-C, a liquid, whose fining agents are Kieselsol and Chitosan (the "K-C" in the name). One 150-ml dose will treat 6 gallons of wine. Ten days later you rack the wine and, if desired, filter it at that time.
If you haven't use pectic enzyme, you could try that.
Otherwise, I'd suggest some finings. I'd probably hit it with Super Kleer KC. Especially if you've already used gelatin.
From Jack Keller's website:
It is assumed the wine will fall clear on its own within six months and perhaps another three rackings. Almost all wines will, but some may need help. Help means either cold settling or fining. It does not mean filtering, as only clear wines should be filtered. Filtering a cloudy or hazy wine will almost always clog the filters prematurely and could burn out a filter's pump.
Generally, fining agents work because they possess one charge (positive or negative) and the cloudiness is caused by something that possesses the opposite charge. Opposites attract, creating larger (and heavier) particulates, which fall into the lees. If you use the wrong fining agent, it will repel the particulate and serve no purpose. Indeed, it could exacerbate the problem.
The best -- meaning the most useful -- general fining agents are (in my opinion) Bentonite, Kieselsol, Chitosan, and Gelatin. The first two are negatively charged particles that are useful in removing proteins and some metallic compounds. The latter two are positively charged and useful in removing tannin, phenols, anthrocyanins, yeast cells, and bacteria -- all of which are negatively charged. Casein and Sparkolloid are also useful and fairly common finings. Both are positively charged agents. There are at least a couple of products out there that are two-part clarifiers. They contain both positive and negative charged finings, so if you really aren't sure what is causing the problem and you've tried pectic enzyme without success, these products will usually work. In fact, I've never had one not work for me. The one I've used most often is a product is called Super Kleer K-C, a liquid, whose fining agents are Kieselsol and Chitosan (the "K-C" in the name). One 150-ml dose will treat 6 gallons of wine. Ten days later you rack the wine and, if desired, filter it at that time.
bja
Well-Known Member
It's only been 3 or 4 days. I think you need to wait a little longer.
mmadmikes1
Well-Known Member
I would guess it is pectic haze. If PE does not fix it you will have to drink it cloudy. Apples have a ton of pectin in them
If you've got the powder, pull out a sample of the wine and mix the enzyme will (it'll clump a bit at first). Then you can gently add it to the entire carboy. I'd probably give the carboy a swirl after I re-airlocked it, just to make sure it's sort of evenly dispersed.
Or if you have any lees in the carboy, I'd recommending mixing up the enzyme with some of the wine as above, and then racking the wine into it in a new carboy.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
thanks
I haven't yet had reason to use it but I found a test for pectin haze spread fairly wildly around the net, here is one such link.
http://www.ehow.com/how_6008468_clear-pectin-haze.html
In general I think you are better off if you can identify exactly what is causing your cloudiness and treat it with an agent that can specifically target the identified problem. That said, this is the only test I have come across so far that can identify a specific cause for the cloudiness...maybe others have knowledge of other tests?
Cheers
HW
http://www.ehow.com/how_6008468_clear-pectin-haze.html
In general I think you are better off if you can identify exactly what is causing your cloudiness and treat it with an agent that can specifically target the identified problem. That said, this is the only test I have come across so far that can identify a specific cause for the cloudiness...maybe others have knowledge of other tests?
Cheers
HW
The milky aspect sounds like an infection -- any off smells?
Apple juice is loaded with proteins which will often fall out of solution with racking and time.
Failing that bentonite is the best application for fining.
With all of these apps bench trials should be preformed so you arent wasting $, time, cider, etc.
Just take a small amount and proportionally add the agent.
Different levels of application can also determine exactly how much is required. For instance .25 g/L, .5g/L, .75g/L, 1g/L trials might find that .25 is not enough but .5 is.
Note: If you are unfamiliar with preparing bentonite please follow instruction.
Apple juice is loaded with proteins which will often fall out of solution with racking and time.
Failing that bentonite is the best application for fining.
With all of these apps bench trials should be preformed so you arent wasting $, time, cider, etc.
Just take a small amount and proportionally add the agent.
Different levels of application can also determine exactly how much is required. For instance .25 g/L, .5g/L, .75g/L, 1g/L trials might find that .25 is not enough but .5 is.
Note: If you are unfamiliar with preparing bentonite please follow instruction.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
Just saw this..I racked it two days ago but did add the kmeta....as I said this looks like it has milk poured into it. The other that I did NOT run through the grinder is nice and clear and has been sweetend a touch to ready it for bottling this week sometime.
does it smell okay. the milkiness is suspect.
But is probably a protein issue since it did get pressed/ground more aggressively than the clear one.
You could also try sticking it outside (obviously not below -3 C) for kicks to see if that does anything.
But is probably a protein issue since it did get pressed/ground more aggressively than the clear one.
You could also try sticking it outside (obviously not below -3 C) for kicks to see if that does anything.
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
Smells fine and tastes just like the one that is clear. I have a big enough beer fridge that I could cold crash it near freezing for a while if that might be helpful?
I may get a pic of it tomorrow so you guys can see what I am talking about.
whatever is in solution may develop into a problem so it would be best to have it fallout before bottling.
Chilling cant hurt and could initiate a precipate.
Has there been any developments?
clearing at the top -- that sort of thing
picture sounds great
Chilling cant hurt and could initiate a precipate.
Has there been any developments?
clearing at the top -- that sort of thing
picture sounds great
OHIOSTEVE
Well-Known Member
stuck this in the big beer fridge a few days ago.. Started looking like a snow globe with all of the stuff falling out of it. REALLY looks good now. THANKS for all of tha advice.. How long can I leave it in cold without bad effects?
Great to hear the positive progress.
The cold will preserve it better but when you go to rack it let it warm up so it wont be so prone to absorb oxygen as cold liquids do.
You may want to do 2 rackings as the lees sound like they will be rather fluffy. So if you do dont worry about any fluff getting into the next carboy as it will probably fall out faster and compact more readily in the last carboy.
The cold will preserve it better but when you go to rack it let it warm up so it wont be so prone to absorb oxygen as cold liquids do.
You may want to do 2 rackings as the lees sound like they will be rather fluffy. So if you do dont worry about any fluff getting into the next carboy as it will probably fall out faster and compact more readily in the last carboy.
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