10000w 220v dimmer for boil kettle

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I bought one of these to test before designing our own because it would have been easier to load these $20.00 assemblies into housings than to manufacture our controllers.

The dimmer worked great but the heat sink got hot and I believe the heat sink is under sized for a 4500 or 5500 watt heating element without some sort of forced air cooling. Set one up with a small fan and it should work great.
 
I find it amazing that the traces on that board can handle ~45 amps..... Or so they say.

I thought the same thing, but then I realized that there isn't really anything in the pics to establish scale.

Like... maybe that knob is 6" in diameter. :D
 
Here's a picture of the 10kW dimmer next to a 3.8kW dimmer and a computer fan. It looks pretty hefty.

compare10K3.8K.jpg


The traces on the back look reasonably chunky to me. I'm not sure what gauge wire you can get in the terminals.
 
Has anyone ever tried to actually control 3, 5, or 10kW with these? Are the numbers inflated perhaps, just like "1000W sound amps" are?

You need very sizable wiring to conduct 40-50A. Even the MOSFET ICs look smallish for that purpose.

Why not use a PID?
 
Why not use a PID?

I think people are just looking for cost optimized solutions with simplistic features. A manual mode PID and SSR will certainly work to control a boil, but will cost at least twice as much and provides more than they really need. a PWM with an SSR is closer in cost to this thing and gives the same functionality, though.
 
Actually... I was going to ask what size the fan was.

20mm?
80mm?

I'm pretty sure it's a 50mm fan. The ebay ad says the 10 kW dimmer module is 86 x 49 x 54mm. The heat sink must be about 50mm x 75mm with 20mm fins. Let's do the maths. We'll plug some numbers into a heatsink design calculator.

Power dissipated 41.7W (assume triac has voltage drop of 1.0 V @ 10000 / 240 = 41.7 A)
Max ambient temperature 25 °C
Max junction temperature 125 °C
Thermal Resistance - Junction to Case 0.6 °C/Watt (based on BTA40 triac data sheet)

=> Calculated thermal resistance required of heatsink = 0.8 °C/W or lower.

Now let's calculate the thermal resistance of the heatsink under forced convection (i.e. fan blowing on heatsink) using another calculator.

Volumetric Flow Rate 0.0075 m^3/s (50mm PC fan @ 12 V)
Number of Fins 10
Fin Width 0.002 m
Fin Length 0.05 m
Fin Height 0.02 m
Sink Width 0.075 m
Fin Thermal Conductivity 215 W/m·°K (Aluminium @ 125 °C)

=> Calculated thermal resistance of heatsink = 0.73 °C/W

which is just below the required limit of 0.8 °C/W. So at 10 kW with a 50 mm PC fan blowing on it continuously the heatsink is just barely OK to keep the triac below its rated temperature of 125 °C. So the heatsink is sized adequately to do its job - it's just going to get very very hot doing it.

Going back to the first calculator, if we plug in the numbers for one 5500 W element (need to dissipate 21.9 W), it turns out that the heatsink is adequate to hold the triac at 78 °C. So even with a fan on it the heatsink will still get hot to the touch running one element, and should not contact e.g. the exterior of a PVC enclosure.

I think it's fair to say that 10 kW is right on the limit of what this dimmer is usable for, but 5.5 kW is probably OK with suitable care and attention. Either way you'll need a fan on the heatsink and a mesh guard or something around to keep your fingers from getting burned.
 
I think people are just looking for cost optimized solutions with simplistic features. A manual mode PID and SSR will certainly work to control a boil, but will cost at least twice as much and provides more than they really need. a PWM with an SSR is closer in cost to this thing and gives the same functionality, though.

OK, cheaper and easier, just 2 wires in and 2 wires out.

How about the voltage difference. 220V vs our domestic 240V (nominal). Any documentation that tells us what exact voltage range can be handled?

If this all works I guess one could double-up the current-carrying traces with heavier duty wire.
 
...So the heatsink is just about OK for 10 kW with a 50mm PC fan blowing on it continuously, to keep the triac at 125°C which is probably its rated temperature. So the heatsink is sized adequately do do it's job - it's just going to get very hot doing it.

Here is a note from the ebay ad:
the load cannot exceed the specified maximum power, please pay attention to the temperature at first use. if the temperature too hot exceed 80 °c, please enhance heatsink, or would burn out module and load.

Freely translated, its working temp is 80°C.

It needs a bigger heat sink too as well as a (bigger) fan.
 
The rated temperature of the part that the heatsink is protecting is certainly greater than 80 °C. Whether it is prudent to run it hotter is another question.

With an 80 °C limit this module is good for 5.5 kW with a 50 mm fan, by my calculations above and in the experience of the person who took the photo that I posted.

By the way, an SSR drops the same voltage as a triac so you would need an equivalently large heatsink and fan if you built your own PWM controller, unless I'm missing something.
 
Anybody try one yet? I was thinking about using one to control a 5,500w element while i gradually build my control panel.
 
I bought one, but decided to throw it away rather than use it.

I know only know enough about electricity to be dangerous and I wasnt confident that I could use it safely, especially after having a few beers.
 
I just got mine today, right after finishing my PID control box. Looks ok. Hopefully tomorrow i'll get a chance to run the electric for my new setup. I'll throw this controller in a box with a mc switch and see how it works for a boil kettle
 
Greetings I'm kind of in the same boat as far as looking for a dimmer type setup.

I was wondering would this http://tinyurl.com/cye7wys work for a 1500W heating element and if so how would I go about it.

Thank you

-Z
 
I may be wrong, but i think that just plugs into small electric appliances, such as a griddle. My electric griddle has a very similar thermostat on it.
 
I may be wrong, but i think that just plugs into small electric appliances, such as a griddle. My electric griddle has a very similar thermostat on it.

Mikey,

While I understand that it plugs into small appliances they are still rated at 1500W so that makes me wonder if it could be used as a controller for a 1500W heating element. And if so how would one go about it.

Cheers
-Z
 
You'd need to take it apart and check out how its wired. If you're a tinkerer and own a voltage tester, i would think it could be figured out.
 
I bought one after seeing the post and have used on one 10 gal brew and a couple trial runs with water. I have it hooked up to a 5500 watt Camco, brings 12 gallon of wort to a boil in about 50 min. Then I back it down about half to 3/4 and it boils consistent for an hour. I have a 120 mm case fan on the heat sink. Im satisfied with it.
 
I bought one after seeing the post and have used on one 10 gal brew and a couple trial runs with water. I have it hooked up to a 5500 watt Camco, brings 12 gallon of wort to a boil in about 50 min. Then I back it down about half to 3/4 and it boils consistent for an hour. I have a 120 mm case fan on the heat sink. Im satisfied with it.

I have what appears to be the 6500W version of this and am not sure how to wire it up? Did you run both hot legs through AC IN? and take both out on the other side? Any help on mine?
 
I bought one after seeing the post and have used on one 10 gal brew and a couple trial runs with water. I have it hooked up to a 5500 watt Camco, brings 12 gallon of wort to a boil in about 50 min. Then I back it down about half to 3/4 and it boils consistent for an hour. I have a 120 mm case fan on the heat sink. Im satisfied with it.

Thanks for the first hand experience. Couple questions:

1) Was the 50 min from room temp to boil or from mash out temp to boil?
2) Is your kettle insulated?
3) Did you feel the case fan was required or you just did it as a precaution?

Thanks!
 
maybe i dont understand but does this realy save that much money? I only ask because I am planning my own eBIAB. The "dimmer" control is a little less expensive but you still need the GFCI and all the other parts required to make a safe kettle correct?
 
maybe i dont understand but does this realy save that much money? I only ask because I am planning my own eBIAB. The "dimmer" control is a little less expensive but you still need the GFCI and all the other parts required to make a safe kettle correct?

Some people want an analog dial for their boil kettle. A PID with manual mode accomplishes the same function with digital controls.

For single-vessel brewing, you are better off with the PID with manual mode. You get automated temperature control during the mash, then you can digitally "dial in" the power you want for the boil.
 
Gfci protection is the one thing in this equation that you shouldn't even consider being without. Proper grounding and protection could save your life.

Other than that, there are parts you could do without. This system here is sort of a barebones system. Theres no automated temp control or digital temp readouts. Much cheaper, but much more hands on.
 
Thanks for the reply Jeff and P-J. I have other questions but they are not directly related to this thread so I have started on of my own. I think I am going to go with the pid anyhow.
 
Thanks for the first hand experience. Couple questions:

1) Was the 50 min from room temp to boil or from mash out temp to boil?
2) Is your kettle insulated?
3) Did you feel the case fan was required or you just did it as a precaution?

Thanks!

50 was from mash temp to boil, tap temp to boil was about 15 min longer.
Kettle is not insulated
I was afraid not to use the fan, did want to burn it up.

Hope this helps, thanks.
 
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