Small Batch Homebrewer Trying to Maximize Primary

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Thunder_Chicken

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
2,099
Reaction score
666
Location
The Hinterland of the South Shore
I'm brewing using my stovetop and pots and pans in my kitchen, and I don't have plans to upgrade too much. The SWMBO has signed off on my having a 5-gallon primary (actually a 6 gallon ale pail) in the kitchen for temperature control, but my real problem is actually filling it.

With both of the big kettles that I have I can do partial mashes, with grains in one pot and reconstituted DME or LME in the other. Best I can do on my stovetop is about 3 gallons of wort per day. I can cool my mash down quickly in an ice bath in the sink, and I do the same with the reconstituted DME (which I just quickly boil to sanitize). But even after this it is all too warm to pitch yeast into until the next day. I let everything cool to room temp while covered, then dump it all in the fermenter and pitch.

What I was thinking of doing was doing this process on sequential days, in order to fill up my fermenter. Do my partial mash 3 gallon boil, cool it overnight, put it in the primary and pitch yeast, and then boil an additional 3 gallons, cool that to room temperature, and then adding that to the already-pitched primary 24 hours later.

Can anyone poke any holes in this idea? Obviously I need to make sure everything is at or very near room temperature before it goes into the fermenter to avoid shocking the yeast. Will this screw up the yeast development? My guess is if I do this within a day or so the yeast will not really care, and mixing oxygen in probably still won't be a worry.
 
Have you considered making a high gravity wort and just topping off with cold water
 
Your idea would probably work fine but I think you're making it harder Than it has to be
 
Have you considered making a high gravity wort and just topping off with cold water

My concern was with how high I can drive the gravity before I start making syrup or burning. But yes, that would be a really attractive option if I could do a small boil and top off with chilled water.

I have a 1.5 gallon pot and a 2.5 gallon pot, but those volumes are filled to the rim, which I am hesitant to do. I usually do my BIAB mash in the 1.5 gallon (producing about 1 gallon) and reconstitute the DME in the larger pot (probably could get 2+ gallons but I usually limit it to 1.5 gallons to produce a total of 2.5 gallons of wort).

The last couple of batches I have had about 1 lb of grains in the bag and 3 lbs of DME in the other pot. 2 lbs of grains is probably not a huge stretch, though I would probably have to sparge to make up some of the wort volume. 6 lbs of DME in 2 gallons of water might go - again I just sweat about burning sugar.
 
It should work fine. It takes a lot of pro breweries multiple batches to fill their fermentors. I would, however, suggest that you get your wort to pitching temperature immediately instead of letting it sit over night.
 
Why can't you get a 20 quart aluminum stock pot from a restaurant supply shop and do a standard partial boil like almost everyone else?
 
Have you considered just doing small batches? 2.5-3 gal? I'll brew 2 gallon partial mashes and top off to 3.

What's your true need for 5-6 gal? Brewing a kit? drinking and serving that much?

(I love me my 3 gallon better bottle with the rotating spigot.)

an option could be to do hops boil in pot with the specialty grains, then use other pot to just quick boil the extract in only as much water you can fit, then top off the ale pale with jugs of store bought RO water.
 
It should work fine. It takes a lot of pro breweries multiple batches to fill their fermentors. I would, however, suggest that you get your wort to pitching temperature immediately instead of letting it sit over night.

I chill the mash wort down below 90F and then chill it it in the refrigerator overnight with the lid sealed in plastic wrap. The bigger kettle with the DME wort I seal with wrap but leave in on the stove overnight (no room in the fridge). In the morning the mash wort is ~45F and the DME wort is in the 70s, so when I toss them in the fermenter the mix is generally in the low 60s and ready to take yeast.

I put a lid on both kettles immediately at the end of the boils to keep air exposure to a minimum while they are hot/warm. They don't get opened until they are at pitch temp.
 
Have you considered just doing small batches? 2.5-3 gal? I'll brew 2 gallon partial mashes and top off to 3.

What's your true need for 5-6 gal? Brewing a kit? drinking and serving that much?

(I love me my 3 gallon better bottle with the rotating spigot.)

an option could be to do hops boil in pot with the specialty grains, then use other pot to just quick boil the extract in only as much water you can fit, then top off the ale pale with jugs of store bought RO water.

Well, I don't really need more beer, but I have half of a 5 gallon primary doing nothing but occupying space and holding CO2 now. If I can make more beer without occupying more real estate and needing more kitchen assets, then I get more beer to drink. Practically I might just be able to let it sit longer in primary to clean up and age and still get more (and better) beer.
 
I chill the mash wort down below 90F and then chill it it in the refrigerator overnight with the lid sealed in plastic wrap. The bigger kettle with the DME wort I seal with wrap but leave in on the stove overnight (no room in the fridge). In the morning the mash wort is ~45F and the DME wort is in the 70s, so when I toss them in the fermenter the mix is generally in the low 60s and ready to take yeast.

I put a lid on both kettles immediately at the end of the boils to keep air exposure to a minimum while they are hot/warm. They don't get opened until they are at pitch temp.
Are you using ice to get down to 90? If so, save it for when you are at 90 to bring yourself to pitching temps. Back when I did ice baths, I'd dump the warmed water from the sink into the garbage disposal and refill with cold tap water. I'm lucky though, my cold tap water is 45°
 
Are you using ice to get down to 90? If so, save it for when you are at 90 to bring yourself to pitching temps. Back when I did ice baths, I'd dump the warmed water from the sink into the garbage disposal and refill with cold tap water. I'm lucky though, my cold tap water is 45°

Nope; my tap water is in the 40s as well this time of year. I just fill the sink and plunk the grain kettle in and swirl the covered kettle around to facilitate heat transfer. It gets to 90 in less than 10 minutes. I keep the lid on and then wrap it with plastic wrap and put it in the fridge at that point. Works nice - I get a nice cold break, especially using Irish moss.

The DME pot I usually just put in the filled sink after I have cooled the grain wort and put it to bed in the fridge. I'll leave it sit in the sink for a while. Sometimes I just leave it there all night and fill my fermenter in the morning, but sometimes (if SWMBO needs the sink) I'll pull it out and put it on the counter or stove until morning. Either way it is just about room temperature by morning.

Yeah, I could work harder to cool all the way down to pitch temperatures that night, but I save a lot of water and ice by just being patient for about 8-10 hours. It works and there is no worry about stressing yeast by rushing it into too-warm wort. I'm usually bottling my latest batch that evening anyway to free up the primary, and having a chance to breathe and make sure everything is cleaned up and ready for the morning saves a lot of headaches and mistakes.
 
Nope; my tap water is in the 40s as well this time of year. I just fill the sink and plunk the grain kettle in and swirl the covered kettle around to facilitate heat transfer. It gets to 90 in less than 10 minutes. I keep the lid on and then wrap it with plastic wrap and put it in the fridge at that point. Works nice - I get a nice cold break, especially using Irish moss.

The DME pot I usually just put in the filled sink after I have cooled the grain wort and put it to bed in the fridge. I'll leave it sit in the sink for a while. Sometimes I just leave it there all night and fill my fermenter in the morning, but sometimes (if SWMBO needs the sink) I'll pull it out and put it on the counter or stove until morning. Either way it is just about room temperature by morning.
OK, but with tap water that cold, you can get it to pitching temp really easily, no ice needed. The sooner you get your yeast working, the better.

edit-see your edit, still think you'll be better off just getting it chilled, you're not going to waste too much extra water, and you can always just use it for washing things up afterwards.
 
OK, but with tap water that cold, you can get it to pitching temp really easily, no ice needed. The sooner you get your yeast working, the better.

edit-see your edit, still think you'll be better off just getting it chilled, you're not going to waste too much extra water, and you can always just use it for washing things up afterwards.

I know that I assume a bit of a risk by leaving wort uninnoculated for a few hours. If I screwed up and the lids came off for any reason I would probably push it and get it all in the fermenter that night with the yeast. All I can say is that is how I roll in my kitchen on brew night.

After having sanitized a case of bottles; racking, priming, filling, and capping said bottles, then doing a orchestrated boil while cleaning and sanitizing all my equipment and primary - I'm just happier to slow the pace down to prevent any late night stumbles and fumbles that might screw up my next batch. The next morning I can put properly cooled wort into the fermenter (which has been soaking in Starsan solution all night) and pitch the yeast into my fermenter while having my coffee. The break in the wort is also well settled and is easy to keep out of the primary. It's a pretty mellow and productive way to start the day.
 
Build a collar out of wood at least as high as your airlock or blowoff tube and stack a second fermenter on top. Boom, same real estate, double the beer. Case closed!
 
Because my stove can barely get 8 quarts to a boil. Read the original post.

Nothing in your original post indicates you had issues with boiling more than 8 quarts of water. IMO, if you can't boil more than 8 quarts of water, I'd be sticking to small batch brewing or investing in a heat stick and a larger pot to brew larger batches.
 
I'd be more worried about why you can't get more than 2 gallons boiling than anything else. Read some of the posts on here about insulating your pot and consider keeping the lid on until the boil starts. I start boiling my first running immediately while I sparge and its boiling in 10 minutes max.

You really should consider trying 2.5 gallon batches or smaller. Considering you are suggesting doing multiple batches in a week you can have more styles of beer instead of just more beer. I do 1 gallon and love it. Also consider that you don't need to have 5+ gallons in the carboy, the fermentation will produce a layer that will protect your beer. Granted, I would not want that little of beer in that big of a carboy but you should be okay.

Finally, you really need to get to a brew shop and grab some smaller carboys or buckets. The emporium in Weymouth should get the job done. Your idea could work but you're avoiding your two actual issues: something is amiss with your stove and you don't have the proper vessel for fermentation.
 
No-Chill would be an easy solution. It's worth trying.

Basically:

Get a HDPE water jerry can of the appropriate size, throw your hot wort into it. Squeeze the air out and seal it TIGHT. Leave some where to cool overnight, couple of days or whatever until its convenient to pitch it into the fermenter with yeast.

Sometimes I've done 2 batches in a day thrown them in my no-chill cubes and leave them until I'm ready, one of them will usually sit around for a couple if weeks. Never had any of the DMS problems or infections that naysayers go on about. Highly recommend it as worth looking into, you can then chuck 2 or more cubes together as one batch when they're all cooled, don't even have to brew them all on the same day.
 
Thunder_Chicken said:
You're missing the point. I am just trying to fill a fermenter that I already have.

You can do what you are looking to do. I have done something similar with high gravity beer. Adding wort as it ferments down. I like my other idea better though.
 
I'd be more worried about why you can't get more than 2 gallons boiling than anything else. Read some of the posts on here about insulating your pot and consider keeping the lid on until the boil starts. I start boiling my first running immediately while I sparge and its boiling in 10 minutes max.

You really should consider trying 2.5 gallon batches or smaller. Considering you are suggesting doing multiple batches in a week you can have more styles of beer instead of just more beer. I do 1 gallon and love it. Also consider that you don't need to have 5+ gallons in the carboy, the fermentation will produce a layer that will protect your beer. Granted, I would not want that little of beer in that big of a carboy but you should be okay.

Finally, you really need to get to a brew shop and grab some smaller carboys or buckets. The emporium in Weymouth should get the job done. Your idea could work but you're avoiding your two actual issues: something is amiss with your stove and you don't have the proper vessel for fermentation.

I am doing 2.5 gallon batches in my pail now, and I have a couple 1-gal glass carboys that I keep busy. I'm working in a very cramped kitchen and I don't have storage space for a special kit of kettles and other stuff for beermaking. I am trying to do the best I can with what I already have in the kitchen, that's all.

The stove can probably boil more, 2-gallon boils are rolling but are weak. I try to do the grains in the smaller volume pot so I can get a good and vigorous boil. I'm less concerned with the DME pot as I am just trying to sanitize it.

As an aside, it seems that there are lot of people in the forums that assume that everyone has plenty of space and/or disposable income for all sorts of beer making equipment. Lucky them - some of us do not and need to work with what we have, but are still trying to enjoy some aspects of the hobby. Yes, it's limited and maybe far from ideal, but it is what it is. It would be a help if people would consider this before they post. I am not trying to be deliberately difficult, I am just asking a question based on my personal circumstances.
 
I have a couple of thoughts.

One is that I don't see the need to do the second boil with the DME. What I would do is make the beer in the bigger kettle, and at flame out add the DME to that kettle and turn off the heat. Cool that in the sink to under 90 degrees, and then pour that into your fermenter. Top up with cold water to 5 gallons, and you'd be done.

I don't see why the second boil is going on, so if I'm missing something then I take back that advice. :cross:

The other thought I had is to do two 1/2 batches, cooled properly, and then mixed together the second day.

If you make a 1/2 batch, and cool it to under 70 degrees in the sink (totally possible), then pitch the yeast, and make the second batch the next day the same way and add it to the fermenter, it's a 5 gallon batch.
 
The other thought I had is to do two 1/2 batches, cooled properly, and then mixed together the second day.

If you make a 1/2 batch, and cool it to under 70 degrees in the sink (totally possible), then pitch the yeast, and make the second batch the next day the same way and add it to the fermenter, it's a 5 gallon batch.

That was what I was thinking - that was my plan so long as it doesn't bother the yeast or do anything else bad that I didn't consider.
 
Thunder_Chicken said:
My concern was with how high I can drive the gravity before I start making syrup or burning. But yes, that would be a really attractive option if I could do a small boil and top off with chilled water.

I have a 1.5 gallon pot and a 2.5 gallon pot, but those volumes are filled to the rim, which I am hesitant to do. I usually do my BIAB mash in the 1.5 gallon (producing about 1 gallon) and reconstitute the DME in the larger pot (probably could get 2+ gallons but I usually limit it to 1.5 gallons to produce a total of 2.5 gallons of wort).

The last couple of batches I have had about 1 lb of grains in the bag and 3 lbs of DME in the other pot. 2 lbs of grains is probably not a huge stretch, though I would probably have to sparge to make up some of the wort volume. 6 lbs of DME in 2 gallons of water might go - again I just sweat about burning sugar.

I think you would be fine to add some DME when you're done boiling to up the gravity. This would likely ease your worries of contamination as the liquid will still be hot enough but you won't have to worry about burning it.
If you add enough extract it will be a bit syrupy bit that's ok as long as it's nit burned, chill it down a bit and then top if with cold water and you're done.
I have made plentyIOC 5 gallon extract batches with only a 2 gallon boil and it must have worked ok because while doing this I developed my obsession with brewing.
But to be as helpful as I can, i will say that your plan should work.
 
That was what I was thinking - that was my plan so long as it doesn't bother the yeast or do anything else bad that I didn't consider.

No, that would be fine. But it'd be much quicker and easier to make it up in the one pot, add the DME at flame out, chill, and then top it up to 5 gallons. That would take the half the amount of time as doing it in two batches, but give you the same result.
 
Mongrel said:
Are you using ice to get down to 90? If so, save it for when you are at 90 to bring yourself to pitching temps. Back when I did ice baths, I'd dump the warmed water from the sink into the garbage disposal and refill with cold tap water. I'm lucky though, my cold tap water is 45°

I did this the other night and within 45 minutes the wort was cool enough that when I mixed it in 2.5 gal of water in the primary it read 85 degrees. I pitched the starter before bed and its vigorous in fermentation!
 
No, that would be fine. But it'd be much quicker and easier to make it up in the one pot, add the DME at flame out, chill, and then top it up to 5 gallons. That would take the half the amount of time as doing it in two batches, but give you the same result.

How much DME can I stuff in 1.5 to 2 gallons? If I can do a partial mash with about 2 lbs of grains, then reconstitute ~ 6 lbs of DME at flameout in that same pot and makeup the volume with bottled water, that would rock.

I guess I am just being paranoid about boiling everything, and since I am boiling everything I am concerned about burning high gravity wort. If just adding DME to hot (but not boiling) wort is OK with minimal infection risk, then everything else will be fine.
 
Thunder_Chicken said:
These are not answers to my question.

I get that sometimes TChicken! People wanna argue rather than help a member. Oh well.

I think you should be able to do a higher gravity wort of 2.5-3 gal and top off the fermenter to get to 5. I actually do that all the time!

image-1922546689.jpg
 
How much DME can I stuff in 1.5 to 2 gallons? If I can do a partial mash with about 2 lbs of grains, then reconstitute ~ 6 lbs of DME at flameout in that same pot and makeup the volume with bottled water, that would rock.

I guess I am just being paranoid about boiling everything, and since I am boiling everything I am concerned about burning high gravity wort. If just adding DME to hot (but not boiling) wort is OK with minimal infection risk, then everything else will be fine.

I don't know how much you can fit in there- but you can probably get all of it, or darn near, depending on the recipe. Boil as much as you can, then add the DME at flame out. That would totally pasteurize the DME. There is no reason DME has to boil, as it's been processed already by the manufacturer but I know people want to make sure it's pasteurized before using.
 
OK, sounds like a plan. I'll shoot for a 2 gallon boil with my grain bag in my bigger pot, reconstitute all the DME at flameout, and dump it right into the fermenter with 3 gallons of chilled water. If the wort were still boiling and the make up water was chilled to about 40F, the mixture would still be 100F, but I assume that the 6 lbs of DME will drop the wort temperature. If I can get the wort down to 150F that will get the mixture to 85F in the fermenter. I should be able to do that with a quick water bath.

I'll give this a shot next week when my fermenter opens up. Thanks all!
 
I get that sometimes TChicken! People wanna argue rather than help a member. Oh well.

If you want answers to a question it helps to provide all the information up front. If you get snippy when a valid response is given (taking into account the partially formulated question), you deserve to deal with half ass answers...

That being said, it's already been pointed out that you can get a huge amount of DME into the brew pot without worrying about scorching. Just make sure you take it off the burner (especially if you are working with an electric range). I've made a 5 gallon batch of a 1.100 smoked porter by adding nearly all the extract to what amounted to about 2.5 gallons of water. The only thing you need to be aware of if you go this route is that you will dramatically increase the volume of the wort when you add the extract.
 
I'm brewing using my stovetop and pots and pans in my kitchen, and I don't have plans to upgrade too much.

I know you say this, but I wonder what your definition of "too much" is?

For $60 you can have this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002HEL5QA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It solves several of your issues -- need to boil grain & DME in two different pots, need to do multiple boils, and being stuck in the kitchen. I would assume it's hard to really estimate hop utilization if you spread 5 gallons across 4 different boil pots of different gravities. You can still ferment in the kitchen, of course...

Granted I don't know if other reasons preclude you from moving the operation outside...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wouldn't NOT chill that wort! chill the wort before putting into the fermenter- otherwise you'll have 5 gallons of too-warm wort.

You want to turn off the flame, and then add the DME. Use a whisk, because it clumps. Whisk until it's not clumpy, then chill the wort in the sink in an ice bath. Once it's below 80 degrees, then pour into your fermenter and add cool water to top up to 5 gallons. Check the temperature (should be in the 50s or 60s) and pitch the yeast if it's under 70 degrees.

That's it.
 
I wouldn't NOT chill that wort! chill the wort before putting into the fermenter- otherwise you'll have 5 gallons of too-warm wort.

You want to turn off the flame, and then add the DME. Use a whisk, because it clumps. Whisk until it's not clumpy, then chill the wort in the sink in an ice bath. Once it's below 80 degrees, then pour into your fermenter and add cool water to top up to 5 gallons. Check the temperature (should be in the 50s or 60s) and pitch the yeast if it's under 70 degrees.

That's it.

Got it! :mug:
 
Back
Top