Will my sweet mead conitnue to dry out a bit??

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ErinRae

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For my very first mead I made a blueberry melomel. I followed this recipe that I found to a T except with blueberries instead:

Sweet Raspberry Mead (Makes 1 Gallon)

Yeast: EC-1118 (1 packet)
1 Gallon Spring Water
4.5 pounds wildflower honey
1.5 pounds red raspberries
The juice from 1 lemon
The juice from 1 lime
3 Tablespoons of strong english tea
1 teaspoon of yeast nutrient

I started this mead on July 16...and the OG was off the charts...so I'm assuming that it started around 1.145-1.15. Now that I've been reading up on meadmaking I can see that this is very very high and is gonna be crazy sweet. Today, 22 days later, the SG is around 1.072. I've sampled it and it tastes amazing like blueberry syrup. But I'd def like to try and dry it up a bit more. Should I add some more nutrient to help the yeast? Does an addition of water help with drying it up a bit? Also when should I move it to secondary and rack it
off the blueberries?

I love this forum! Thanks:)
 
It wouldn't hurt to add some nutrient again and rouse the yeast. It'll likely foam over, so be prepared for that.
 
The SG is really high because I think you use to much honey for a 1 gallon Recipe. When you rack it to a secondary top it off with some water. This might help.
 
Next time for a dry mead I would use 2lbs of honey for a 1 gallon recipe.
 
I've noticed that the longer my blueberry melomel ages, the more mellow the sweetness is becoming... it takes a long while though as I understand it (still a newbie myself).

I would add some nutrients to see if your yeast has any more mojo. As far as racking goes, I would wait until any yeast activity dies down.

If you want the blueberry flavor to be the star of the show, rack it onto some more fruit into a secondary. This is based on many posts by seasoned members of this forum.
 
Did you add 4.5 lbs of honey into a full 1 gal of water, or did you have a total final volume of 1 gal? If you used a full gallon of water, plus the honey, you will have a very different OG than if you had a total final volume of 1 gal. With 4.5 lbs of honey being about 1/3 of a gal volume by itself, even if you assume a very conservative value for the honey (say, 1.036 pppg), you're going to have at *least* 1.130 (1 gal of water plus the honey giving a final total volume of ~ 1.3 gal), and potentially well over 1.160 (if the total final volume was 1 gal).

There are also other factors that lead to a very high risk of a stuck fermentation, including the additions of acid (lemon/lime/raspberry), and perhaps not enough nutrients as it seems (up to this point) you only added them at the very beginning rather than in a staggered fashion over the first few days of fermentation.

Aggressive aeration (or ideally even oxygenation) and degassing would be important for a mead of this octane...

Additionally, you may not have had enough yeast from the start. If the OG really was on the high side of my estimations, optimal pitching would require more than one packet of dry yeast. Further, did you rehydrate the yeast? If you added the yeast dry to a must like that, you certainly killed off a significant portion of the yeast from the packet, even further reducing your pitch rate.

I would definitely start with gently stirring to try and fully degas the mead...just getting the CO2 out can significantly affect the pH...and then adding additional nutrients, aerate the crap out of it, and perhaps even adding some fresh, rehydrated yeast. Consider even getting some pH test strips, and adjusting the pH if it's really low... As mentioned before, racking off the fruit and topping off to dilute it out a bit could also help. Give it some more time, and hope for the best! Keep us posted...
 
The SG is really high because I think you use to much honey for a 1 gallon Recipe. When you rack it to a secondary top it off with some water. This might help.

I don't think the honey is to much... I thought when I made this I went for 17 pounds for 5 gallons....

I found that 12 pounds (a gallon) produce a very very dry mead. (but I could be wrong...review some recipies to confirm)

Also: I think you need time... Mead takes a while to ferment... try putting it in a warmer place and see if after a day or so you see any activity.

I don't like screwing with stuff once aI start it so what I do is brew another batch and "BLEND" this might be appropreate if you have syrup... NOT TO SAY I HAVE NOT:

Removed a gallon, brought near or to a boil, added yeast nutrient, returned it to the fermenter (a little warm to restart the yeast) OR cast additional yeast (a Dry White Wine one...)

Good luck...
 
Did you add 4.5 lbs of honey into a full 1 gal of water, or did you have a total final volume of 1 gal? If you used a full gallon of water, plus the honey, you will have a very different OG than if you had a total final volume of 1 gal. With 4.5 lbs of honey being about 1/3 of a gal volume by itself, even if you assume a very conservative value for the honey (say, 1.036 pppg), you're going to have at *least* 1.130 (1 gal of water plus the honey giving a final total volume of ~ 1.3 gal), and potentially well over 1.160 (if the total final volume was 1 gal).

There are also other factors that lead to a very high risk of a stuck fermentation, including the additions of acid (lemon/lime/raspberry), and perhaps not enough nutrients as it seems (up to this point) you only added them at the very beginning rather than in a staggered fashion over the first few days of fermentation.

Aggressive aeration (or ideally even oxygenation) and degassing would be important for a mead of this octane...

Additionally, you may not have had enough yeast from the start. If the OG really was on the high side of my estimations, optimal pitching would require more than one packet of dry yeast. Further, did you rehydrate the yeast? If you added the yeast dry to a must like that, you certainly killed off a significant portion of the yeast from the packet, even further reducing your pitch rate.

I would definitely start with gently stirring to try and fully degas the mead...just getting the CO2 out can significantly affect the pH...and then adding additional nutrients, aerate the crap out of it, and perhaps even adding some fresh, rehydrated yeast. Consider even getting some pH test strips, and adjusting the pH if it's really low... As mentioned before, racking off the fruit and topping off to dilute it out a bit could also help. Give it some more time, and hope for the best! Keep us posted...

OH and another good suggestion... less of a SWAG than my method.

AND OPPS Did I miss the total amount???? I assumed 5 gallons sorry...
 
I heated the honey in some water and then added it to the carboy...mixed it to death. Then added my yeast nutrient topped off with water and squeezed a lemon in it. While I was making the must I was rehydrating the yeast which i added in last. The must originally foamed over and went nuts in the first couple days of fermenting. I had to remove a little liquid because it kept pushing the air lock out. Everyday for the first week I took the airlock out and shook the carboy. About 7 days ago I added in some nutrient and gave it a shake. Every day I shake the carboy a little to make sure the berries stay wet. There is minimal bubbles around the berries moving now and I dont think the airlock is bubbling anymore.

I think I'll aerate the crap out of it and add some more nutrients and see if I can ge the yeast going a bit more. I'm worried about adding more yeast as it's already possibly at 10% alcohol and I don't want this one to get crazy high in % and taste bad.
 
So this is a 1 gal container? Sounds like you are indeed on the high end of my estimation scenarios, and your OG was easily 1.160, if not higher. I don't think adding extra yeast will cause it to be overly dry/high ABV. What you are trying to prevent is having syrup, as you said, and I would do everything you can to keep this from getting stuck. Unless you can get this down to at least 1.040, I don't think it will be really drinkable, and even then, way to sweet for my tastes personally. You might buy yourself a little leeway with your residual acidity tempering some of the sweetness, but I think this would be better if you can get it down to 1.030 or even a little lower...Even if you max out the yeast to it's theoretical tolerance of 18%, I should put you somewhere around 1.025, and that's still plenty sweet enough for a mead this big.

Oh, and don't worry so much about the airlock, rely on your gravity readings to determine if you're still fermenting or not...
 
I heated the honey in some water and then added it to the carboy...mixed it to death. Then added my yeast nutrient topped off with water and squeezed a lemon in it. While I was making the must I was rehydrating the yeast which i added in last. The must originally foamed over and went nuts in the first couple days of fermenting. I had to remove a little liquid because it kept pushing the air lock out. Everyday for the first week I took the airlock out and shook the carboy. About 7 days ago I added in some nutrient and gave it a shake. Every day I shake the carboy a little to make sure the berries stay wet. There is minimal bubbles around the berries moving now and I dont think the airlock is bubbling anymore.

I think I'll aerate the crap out of it and add some more nutrients and see if I can ge the yeast going a bit more. I'm worried about adding more yeast as it's already possibly at 10% alcohol and I don't want this one to get crazy high in % and taste bad.



Question: at some point don't we start worring about Oxi-da-tion (speeling challanged)
 
Wow I'm not sure 12lbs will fit into a gallon container.

Please see the link below it actually has some good info on how much honey you should use depending on what type of mead you're making.

For a 5 gallon recipe:
9-12 pounds of honey = a dry Mead
13-14 pounds of honey = an off-dry Mead
15-16 pounds of honey = a semi-sweet Mead
17-22 pounds of honey = a sweet to very sweet Mead

http://traditionalmead.blogspot.com/p/way.html
 
I calculate that you had a O.G. of about 1.215, I'm surprised that the yeast was able to survive in this syrup without succumbing to osmotic shock. This includes the 4.5lbs of honey and the 1.5lbs of red raspberries. Now if you're down to 1.072 then you've got an alcohol content of just over 18% which is the rated limit of EC-1118. It's probably done, or close to it at this point and still very sweet. Folks usually shoot for somewhere between 1.0 (dry) to 1.020 (quite sweet) and you're way over that.

I think I would get a second 1 gallon jug and split the current batch between the two to make something a little less sweet/ potent. Think it over for a couple days but I wouldn't take too long because you may risk oxidation given that it's been aerated lately. Honey has a lot of antioxidants but to be sure it'll start tasting like sweet wet cardboard before much longer.

Cheers, it'll probably turn out alright :mug:
 
I used blueberries instead of rasperries...not sure if this makes a difference in the OG. I ended up repitching some 1118 after my second reading of 1.072 within a week or two period. I used a yeast starter in the must and topped off with some water. The yeast is def working...not super actively...but is still bubbling all around the berries. My plan is to see if I can get this down to 1.03-1.02 and then rack it off the fruit..maybe add a touch of water to make up the space the berries took. Then maybe see if it will mellow out with age. I quite liked the taste when I tried it at 1.072..but you wouldnt be able to drink a whole glass:) If I can't get the gravity down then I'll look into making a second batch that is drier and blend. I'd also, for experiment purposes, be curious to see how this tastes in a year or so if I leave it.

3 questions:
1) When you make a mead with a fruit cap when can you stop punching it down or at least shaking the container to wet the fruit?
2) Illuveatar..what are you using to make your calculations?
3) How long can mead be aged for (generally)

Thanks everyone for your feedback!
 
I used blueberries instead of rasperries...not sure if this makes a difference in the OG. I ended up repitching some 1118 after my second reading of 1.072 within a week or two period. I used a yeast starter in the must and topped off with some water. The yeast is def working...not super actively...but is still bubbling all around the berries. My plan is to see if I can get this down to 1.03-1.02 and then rack it off the fruit..maybe add a touch of water to make up the space the berries took. Then maybe see if it will mellow out with age. I quite liked the taste when I tried it at 1.072..but you wouldnt be able to drink a whole glass:) If I can't get the gravity down then I'll look into making a second batch that is drier and blend. I'd also, for experiment purposes, be curious to see how this tastes in a year or so if I leave it.

3 questions:
1) When you make a mead with a fruit cap when can you stop punching it down or at least shaking the container to wet the fruit?
2) Illuveatar..what are you using to make your calculations?
3) How long can mead be aged for (generally)

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

3 answers:
1) I'd keep doing it periodically until you rack off of it...
2) Regardless of what was used to calculate, it's got to be off. Even with a freakish honey that had a sugar content *way* on the high end, it's just NOT possible to get an OG over 1.200 with 4.5 lbs of honey in a gallon. The type of fruit doesn't matter, you are getting very little gravity contribution from the fruit anyhow.
3) A long time...several years certainly, and probably longer. Charlie Papazian wrote a travel book where he talks about drinking 50+ year old mead from a stash in a Scottish castle...his descriptions make it sound amazing...

Question for you: What do you mean by "I used a yeast starter in the must and topped off with some water." Can you describe exactly what you did? If you used some of the current mead to rehydrate the yeast, then I think you may have added a little more yeast nutrient (dead yeast) and perhaps a few viable cells...
 
So since I'm in the learning process...from all the info I've absorbed and randomly retained lol this is what I did for my starter:

I took about 1/2 cup of must and 1/2 cup of warm water, 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp of nutrient/engergizer, squirt of lemon juice and added yeast. I let it sit for about an hour or more...until it started getting active and doubling..tripling. Then I dumped it into the 1 gallon must and gave it a little shake. I didn't know if the same rules applied to letting O2 in again to get the yeast going...so I put a paper towel with an elastic around the top of the 1 G over night. For the first 2 days for sure the airlock started bubbling maybe around 1 bubble per 15-20 secs. Not sure if it's still bubbling but I can see some activity in the must still.

What do you think? Is my starter okay?
 
Well I was using the mead calculator over at GotMead.com but I must have missed a decimal place when entering the fruit content. 1.168 is probably closer to the actual OG, my bad. :drunk:
 
So since I'm in the learning process...from all the info I've absorbed and randomly retained lol this is what I did for my starter:

I took about 1/2 cup of must and 1/2 cup of warm water, 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp of nutrient/engergizer, squirt of lemon juice and added yeast. I let it sit for about an hour or more...until it started getting active and doubling..tripling. Then I dumped it into the 1 gallon must and gave it a little shake. I didn't know if the same rules applied to letting O2 in again to get the yeast going...so I put a paper towel with an elastic around the top of the 1 G over night. For the first 2 days for sure the airlock started bubbling maybe around 1 bubble per 15-20 secs. Not sure if it's still bubbling but I can see some activity in the must still.

What do you think? Is my starter okay?

Actually, yes, it sounds like you're OK. Inadvertently, you made about a proper starter. A starter should have an OG of about 1.040, so by halving a quantity of your 1.07x must, you've made a weak starter, in terms of OG. As it turns out, the fact you were on the weaker side with gravity is probably a very good thing (see below). Now there is the issue of the alcohol content, but EC-1118 being what it is, and being known for restarting fermentations with a pre-existing alcohol content... At any rate, the fact you saw good activity is a solid indicator things worked.

That being said, in general, you don't need to make a starter with dry yeast. It's best to simply rehydrate the yeast; it's ready to go with just rehydration. There's some data to suggest you should *not* rehydrate in must. We've had pretty long discussions on other threads regarding the necessity of rehydration, how to best rehydrate; ie, should you add some fermentable, what kinds of nutrients, etc.

Here's my take on the summarized knowledge regarding hydration of dry yeast. This comes from reading a wide variety of sources:
1) rehydration is very important - adding dry yeast to normal or high gravity must will significantly reduce the cell count
2) rehydration is probably best done in a relatively hard water (read: don't use distilled/deionized water, generally your tap water is fine), with the addition of some yeast hulls/nutrient. A small amount of fermentable, or a very dilute wort/must, is probably OK.
3) with dry yeast, you really don't need to make a starter; ie, allow the yeast to metabolize and reproduce before pitching. Yeast from the packet has a lot of stored energy and is ready to go as soon as it is rehydrated. A dry yeast packet should be pitched within 30 min of rehydrating.
4) recommendations for the temperature of rehydration water vary by strain, so it's best to check the packet, or look it up online.

Regardless, it sounds like you're process was just fine, and in this case may have been even beneficial, as it may have allowed the yeast a chance to acclimate to your must in a lower gravity environment.

BTW, yes, a starter should have access to oxygen...best practices are to actually use a stir plate, which provides continuous aeration/oxygenation to the sample... Personally, I'd leave out the lemon juice...I just can't see any beneficial role it would play, and lowering the pH could be harmful to the yeast.
 
Today is day 28 of primary. I checked the gravity and it's now 1.062....0.01 down from last week :) only 0.03 at least to go lol. I added some nutrient and gave the carboy a shake for a few minutes to degas. I was thinking late next week I might
move it to secondary...as I'm going to be away for a few weeks and might as well get the must off the fruit. Is there an ideal time to rack off of fruit?
 
So it's been a month since the last gravity reading of my sweet blueberry mead. I reracked today and it's sitting at 1.04. I ended up adding some water to top it off as its so sweet that I can't see it making a difference. It tastes like really sweet honey wine with a bit of blueberry..hurts your teeth a bit.

I'm not sure what I'll do at this point as its a little too sweet for me...if it was ice cold or on the rocks i think it could work lol maybe. was thinking about adding some more blueberries to see if this could balance out the honey taste a bit...and then bottling it eventually and giving it to ppl who like desert wine?!

How long do ppl usually rack onto fruit for?
 
You could certainly consider adding some more fruit in secondary....

What I would recommend doing is brewing a traditional mead (just honey, yeast, water and nutrients)...don't start with a super high gravity, just 3 lbs of honey per gallon, and let it go completely dry. You can then use this to blend with your blueberry...it will allow you to dilute out the sweetness considerably without adding any more water. If you plan on doing this, it may provide another good reason to add more blueberries to secondary to boost the blueberry character, and the intensity of the color, knowing that you will be then diluting it out again later before bottling...
 
I think I will try this...I'll make 2 gallons of tradional dry mead then throw the blueberry in as the 3rd gallon and rack all of it onto more blueberries. I guess it would be best to wait until the tradional mead was totally dryed out before I mix the two right?

This poor blueberry mead has been through so much!! I hope no one else tries the original recipe that I found!!!

On a side note...do you know what SWMBO means..lots of ppl here use it?
 
I agree with biochemedic on this on. given recipe stated my calculations come up with an ABV of 20.54. 1118 maxes out at about 18 percent unless you carefully make a starter. Actually I never tried to make a starter with this yeast since it plows through anything. 4.5 pounds is about a little less then 1/3 of a gallon. Also the lemon and lime juice if used to to access would stall the ferment. I know, because I have made that mistake on one of my gallon experiments. When using lemon and lime juice, or anything high in acidity it might be useful to check the acidity with ph strips and adjust accordingly before pitching yeast. Adjusting acidity is accomplished with chemicals depending if its to acidic, or to basic. I think the chemical to balance out the acidity is calcium carbonate. To increase the acidity there are chemicals for that, but for me, I would use lime or lemon juice. If Camden tablets were used in the middle, or at the start when pitching the yeast of the ferment then this would also stall a ferment. The possibility for problems here is too much honey, too much lemon and lime juice, not enough nutrient and energizer and the staggered additions. One or a combination of these factors could have resulted in a high FG, but I don't think the staggered additions would play so much into this equation.

Simple rule for me is one gallon/12 lbs honey to 5 gallons of must. I like 71b and use it often when making meads. My results are anywhere from 13-14.5 depending on SNA (staggered nutrient additions) and fruits used. I like my meads dry and let them to to below 1.000

Possible remedy to this solution is simple, but possibly not so desirable. First add vodka or gain alcohol to taste and or water. 1118 is extremely difficult to unstuck. In fact 1118 is what is used to un-stick stuck ferments. Since its only a one gallon batch I would say that its not a loose, but simply look at it as a learning experience. I think its still drinkable but maybe not what had been anticipated as the final outcome.

Also I use fruit in my primaries. I guess that is a personal preference though.
 
I have a bottle of brandy left over from an event...a little less than 750 ml. Do ppl fortify mead?
 
So out of nowhere the fermentation in my sweet blueberry mead started up again..or at least became noticebly active. There's bubbles rising to the top and creating a layer and the airlock even lets a bubble out every min or so.
Heres hoping that it dries up a bit more!!

E
 
There's still bubbles rising to top...no airlock activity but a constant ring of bubbles in the jug. I hope this means its still fermenting. 3 months this mead has been fermenting...it's pretty clear now too. Maybe I'll take another reading in a day or two
 
This blueberry mead was still fermenting at 1.015 so I decided to cold crash it to keep it a bit sweet. I have no clue about the alcohol content but I'm guessing it's at it's threshold of 18% if not higher. Anyways tastes great!!! Even had a few friends that really liked it. Just goes to show how a disaster of a start can really turn out great!. I think I'll try this recipe again just tone down the initial honey at the beginning!!
 
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