How simple of a box can I build?

I was looking at a few Son of instructions and I don't understand the baffles or how the flow works.

What would happen if I built a simple box with something like a ledge on top for ice blocks? Like an old school pre electricity "ice box" concept. Would cold from the ice blocks migrate "down" into the rest of the box?

Obviously it's not very automated but I'm wondering if it would work with a temp probe in the fermentation chamber and altering the amount of ice blocks for a general temp control. I figure many people have ~74 - ~78 degree rooms in the summer so a simple cooled box to get to a target of approx 60 degrees... is that doable with a simple ice box idea?

I've decided I'm not going to bother building a son of just because it would be easier to get a small freezer and a temp control and call it done but before I spend $250 on that stuff I can't help but wonder if I could get away with $40 worth of foam board and stuff to make something as simple as this idea and forget about the computer fan, baffles, and so on.

You jump in talking about a "Box" Are you talking about a fermentation chamber? Look up Ghetto Chiller if you want a cheap alternitive, remember you will have to keep paying for ice almost every day...

I just built a very simple box using foamboard I bought at lowes. The foamboard is 1 inch thick and fastened with little nails and liquid nail. I think the whole thing cost about 12 bucks and took maybe an hour to build. I have some Gatorade bottles with water that I freeze and place in there. It's holding 68 degrees easily which is my target. I could get it colder of I added more ice.

This is exactly what I'm thinking...

I could freeze a few milk jugs and rotate them out as needed. I'd like to be a little bit cooler than 68 but it's incredibly low tech and straightforward.

tripkings said:

This is exactly what I'm thinking...

I could freeze a few milk jugs and rotate them out as needed. I'd like to be a little bit cooler than 68 but it's incredibly low tech and straightforward.

Click to expand...

I'm swapping out my ice every 24 hours or so. With more ice and more frequent changes you could hit 60. Tonight I had to open the top for a while because it was getting down too low. I'm trying to keep it at 68 +- 1 or 2 degrees.

Only swapping every 24 hours and you had to open the lid because it was getting too cold.....I'm building it tomorrow.


I'll test it with a carboy full of water and take temps in the chamber as well as on a strip.

Thanks!

Once you get the temp of the liquid in the carboy down to where you want it, it's fairly easy to maintain. You might need to ice more at first

don't forget that fermenting beer will create its own heat

baddad said:

don't forget that fermenting beer will create its own heat

Click to expand...

I use a lot of US-05. I'm thinking of making the box about 62-64. I've had this yeast ferment in the mid 70's and not get fruity so hopefully at `63 ambient the heat it generates on it's own won't be an issue.

If you're looking to maintain temperature, the method I use works pretty well.

I place the whole fermenter in a water bath. It doesn't have to be deep....maybe 5-6 inches deep. Then I place a tshirt over the fermenter so that it's dipping down into the water. This wicks the water up around the fermenter, and effectively "sweats" the fermenter. I turn on a fan in the room so that the air circulates nicely around the fermenter.

My room temperature ranges from 70-73 F or so, and the fermenter has not gone above 66 F. This method is super cheap and very easy.

I also add 2-3 frozen deer park water bottles (small ones) every day or two.

i don't understand why you would want to go through all of the trouble. Just find a low cost fridge, install a Love Dual Stage Controller ($70 or so) and get a utility light from Home depot. There you have relatively low cost and MUCH more precise temperature control.

Not only that, but you can lager with it and cold crash too.

Right now I'm in an apartment and space is an issue.

I can't do a full sized fridge but I might do a small chest freezer. I do have space for that but didn't see anything on craigslist.. I expect $175 or so for a new freezer and $70 for the controller. I'm not against it because I'm in an overall brewery upgrade mode but a sheet of foam and a tube of liquid nails is a pretty easy thing worth testing.

The water bath thing is what I've always done and too often I go above 70.

I doubt I could have made it any more ghetto than hacking at it with a box cutter using nothing but eyesight measurements and slapping it together with duct tape but hey....it's pretty damn solid believe it or not.

I used 1.5" foam and if I'd have thought ahead to freeze some bottles last night I'd be temp testing it now.

Looks like hell, feels really solid, and if it keeps temps ~65 it might just be a great little $15 project.


IMAG2440 by waxteeth, on Flickr

A testing update..

I wanted to test this box and because I did not think ahead to freeze any bottles I filled 4 mason jars with ice cubes and stuck one in each corner or the box.

It held at 60 degrees overnight.

My ice cubes are mostly melted and there is 4 mason jars of ice water in there right now but still....60 degrees.

Now I'm thinking I will stick some dowels through the box to make a way to set bottles in the corners on the bottom as well as place them close to the top on the dowel ledges.

I will test it with a live fermentation next week to see ho it goes and report back my temp measurements but I'm pretty happy with this simple foam box so far.

tripkings said:

A testing update..

I wanted to test this box and because I did not think ahead to freeze any bottles I filled 4 mason jars with ice cubes and stuck one in each corner or the box.

It held at 60 degrees overnight.

My ice cubes are mostly melted and there is 4 mason jars of ice water in there right now but still....60 degrees.

Now I'm thinking I will stick some dowels through the box to make a way to set bottles in the corners on the bottom as well as place them close to the top on the dowel ledges.

I will test it with a live fermentation next week to see ho it goes and report back my temp measurements but I'm pretty happy with this simple foam box so far.

Click to expand...

You might try setting the whole thing on another piece of foam giving you 3" on the bottom.

You think a thicker bottom will help?

I'll do that for sure, hell maybe I could even built a better looking box around the thing if it performs well.

i never really understood the son of fermenation chiller either. for all that work/money you might as well just get a fridge. your idea seems pretty decent.

i saw a picture on here (yoopers?) of a cooler, then foam insulation up on top since a full carboy won't fit in a cooler. then fill the cooler with cold water, and it would maintain really well.

your method looks like it will work as well though, but i imagine opening the top basically lets out all the cold air.

Ive opened it up a few times and the cold appears to stay down in the box.

tripkings said:

Ive opened it up a few times and the cold appears to stay down in the box.

Click to expand...

I think what happens is you get the temp of your liquid down to the target. Then the box helps it hold that temp. So more ice at the beginning and less to maintain. I've found that opening it doesn't change the temp very quickly.

Wakadaka said:

i never really understood the son of fermenation chiller either. for all that work/money you might as well just get a fridge. your idea seems pretty decent.

i saw a picture on here (yoopers?) of a cooler, then foam insulation up on top since a full carboy won't fit in a cooler. then fill the cooler with cold water, and it would maintain really well.

your method looks like it will work as well though, but i imagine opening the top basically lets out all the cold air.

Click to expand...

Few reasons

1. Space, not everyone has the room
2. Electricity - another few bucks a year/brew session
3. Wife - against it for top two reasons plus more

Wakadaka said:

i never really understood the son of fermenation chiller either. for all that work/money you might as well just get a fridge. your idea seems pretty decent.

i saw a picture on here (yoopers?) of a cooler, then foam insulation up on top since a full carboy won't fit in a cooler. then fill the cooler with cold water, and it would maintain really well.

your method looks like it will work as well though, but i imagine opening the top basically lets out all the cold air.

Click to expand...

Cold air descends. Open your refrigerator on a humid day and watch where the fog develops. Opening the top of your chamber allows air currents to stir things up, and you may lose some of your cooling, but unless there is a wind it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I have found that the least costly course usually is doing things right the first time. I suggest thinking about the understanding with your wife. At the least, it it often easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. If you keep haunting CraigsList, and asking around, you may well find what you are looking for. Over the past 4 years I have gotten one fridge and one chest freezer for the cost of the gas to haul them away. I just bought another fridge for $60. Aquarium controllers are $25. The electrical costs of cooling to 62* can't be that great. You may come away with very fine temp control for less than the cost of a dinner out with your wife to negotiate it.

Try the T-shirt method and watch the magic happen!...and save money....check the link below.

http://***********/component/resource/article/1923-controlling-fermentation-temperature-techniques