DIPA - First Attempt

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thamajam

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Any thoughts?

OG: 1091

Grain:
14lbs Rahr 2-row
1lb White Wheat
1lb Corn Sugar
.5lb Crystal 40L

Hops:
2oz - Warrior - 90mins
2oz - Centennial - 60mins
1oz - Chinook - 45mins
1oz - Centennial - 30mins
2oz - Cascade - 5mins
1oz - Centennial - 0mins
3oz - Cascade - Dry
2oz - Centennial - Dry

Yeast:
2 packets of 1056

Mash:
150deg

Boil:
Full 90mins
Straining with a mesh bag after cooling/going into the fermenter

Just looking for any opinions or suggestions before I get this bad boy going on National Homebrew Day.
 
Boil size / Batch size / Kettle size?

Looks similar to the Pliny clone with wheat instead of carapils and a few hop subsitutions. I say give it more wheat / less 2-row to make it a little different. Try to lower the FG to .10 - .14.

A little heavy handed on the bittering as is I think. Get your bittering on point with one or two additions and then focus on blasting this with more late addition hops.
 
Boil size / Batch size / Kettle size?

Looks similar to the Pliny clone with wheat instead of carapils and a few hop subsitutions. I say give it more wheat / less 2-row to make it a little different. Try to lower the FG to .10 - .14.

A little heavy handed on the bittering as is I think. Get your bittering on point with one or two additions and then focus on blasting this with more late addition hops.

Agreed...spilt that warrior addition into the 90 and 60...move the centennial addition from 60 to 20. Centennial has such a good aroma/flavor, it really needs to be displayed!
 
This was initially based off a variation of the Pliny recipe and yes modified a little bit.

Alright I'll try to move some of those additions down. What do you think of moving half of the Warrior addition to First Wort (.5oz Warrior - FW, .5oz Warrior - 60min. It could differentiate it a bit by muting that sharp hop bite a bit (or so I understand).

Also, what would you think of swapping out the 1lb of corn sugar for 1lb of honey? I am looking to differentiate the beer as you said, but really also trying to get a better handle on hops. We tend to be pretty stout heavy in our "operation". I would reduce some 2-row and add more wheat if I could, but me being an idiot I mixed them together in the shop at grind (d'oh).

Boil: 7.7gal
Batch (final): 5gal
Kettle: 10gal capacity
 
This was initially based off a variation of the Pliny recipe and yes modified a little bit.
I am looking to differentiate the beer as you said, but really also trying to get a better handle on hops.
Just looking for any opinions or suggestions before I get this bad boy going on National Homebrew Day.

If you want to win a competition and get those points for uniqueness... a Pliny Clone will not get you there. Everyone and their mother brews a Pliny clone and very few hit the mark.

What do you think of moving half of the Warrior addition to First Wort (.5oz Warrior - FW, .5oz Warrior - 60min. It could differentiate it a bit by muting that sharp hop bite a bit (or so I understand).

It depends on what you want. If you want a potent and inherently bitter DIPA like Pliny, then I wouldn't bother with FWH. If you want a more mild, tameable, rounded bitterness then go for it. Some brewers do FWH and also add a seperate bittering addition... it's up to you. One thing I would do though is blast this beer with a good deal of mid-flameout and dryhop additions.

Also, what would you think of swapping out the 1lb of corn sugar for 1lb of honey?

Again, it depends if you want the honey flavor/sweetness or the dryness and floral character sans the sweetness and noticeable honey flavor. I would use 3-6% honey malt for the subtle sweet flavor and real honey for a drier, floral quality. If you're going the latter route, you'll need more honey. But the real trick is "how" you add the honey and what type of honey you use.
 
If you want to win a competition and get those points for uniqueness... a Pliny Clone will not get you there. Everyone and their mother brews a Pliny clone and very few hit the mark.



It depends on what you want. If you want a potent and inherently bitter DIPA like Pliny, then I wouldn't bother with FWH. If you want a more mild, tameable, rounded bitterness then go for it. Some brewers do FWH and also add a seperate bittering addition... it's up to you. One thing I would do though is blast this beer with a good deal of mid-flameout and dryhop additions.



Again, it depends if you want the honey flavor/sweetness or the dryness and floral character sans the sweetness and noticeable honey flavor. I would use 3-6% honey malt for the subtle sweet flavor and real honey for a drier, floral quality. If you're going the latter route, you'll need more honey. But the real trick is "how" you add the honey and what type of honey you use.

Ok so here is what I'm thinking. I would like a more rounded bitterness so I'm going to go the route of FWH. I'm going to drop the corn sugar in favor of 2lbs of fresh honey added to the boil (end?). I'm also going to add another .5lb of either flaked wheat or white wheat malt.

What do you think? Thanks much for the constructive criticism.
 
I'd keep the good quality honey between 8-15% of the grist and add it when the wort is approx. 150 F during whirlpool. Though some people add it during high krausen or secondary with no sanitiation issues. More white or red wheat is good.
 
Bottle with honey...you can get a nice initial flavor and aroma from it.

To get the standard 2.5 vols carb you want to use 3 tablespoons of honey PER GALLON. This is 1.5 ounces or about 63 grams. So for a 5 gallon batch you would use 7.5 ounces of honey or 15 tablespoons (slightly under a cup...liquid). I personally use 4 per gallon as I like them slightly more carbed.

They will take slightly longer to carb...I use 16oz bottles and found 4 weeks to be about right.

This will be subtle but it will allow you to use less honey malt and be able to open up your grain bill more
 
He wants to get dryness from it. You won't really get that with 6-7 oz. honey in the bottling bucket as opposed to 8-15% in the total recipe pre-fermentation. Also, 2.5 vol carb is kinda high for an IPA. I go 1.8-2.1 vol carb with corn sugar at 2-1/2 weeks and I still get a good deal of carbonation. The hop aromas aren't washed away as much by the CO2 bubbles when you stay on the low to moderate side of carbonation. Plus, you get an improved mouthfeel that isn't to thin for a DIPA.
 
Alright here are my revisions (note I reduced the amount of 2-row because it's mostly on top of the bag so I think I can get away with it).

Grains:
12lbs 2-row
1lb White Wheat
1lb Dark Wheat (7.5 srm)
1.5lbs Orange Blossom Honey (leaves a mild citrus-orange note and aroma, wanted to try something different)
.5lbs Crystal 40
.5lbs Crystal 60 (want to darken this up a tad, prior to this it was sitting around 6.5srm)

Hops:
1oz - Warrior - FWH
1oz - Warrior - 60mins
1oz - Centennial - 60mins
1oz - Chinook - 30mins
1oz - Centennial - 15mins
1oz - Centennial - 10mins
2oz - Cascade - 5mins
1oz - Centennial - 0mins
3oz - Cascade - Dry
2oz - Centennial - Dry
 
Use 3-6% CaraAroma, which is probably 1/2# and nix the crystal 40 and 60. That will satisfy your color issues without being overly sweet.

You could try toasting a portion of the white wheat instead of using dark wheat. Pretty sure Lagunitas A Little Sumpin Sumpin has a portion of toasted wheat along with torrified wheat and basic wheat malt.

I would like to see 1 oz. of the dryhop moved to flameout.

You can nix this altogether:

1oz - Centennial - 60mins
1oz - Chinook - 30mins
1oz - Centennial - 15mins
1oz - Centennial - 10mins

...or combine/bolster the 15 or 0 minute additions with it.
 
Use 3-6% CaraAroma, which is probably 1/2# and nix the crystal 40 and 60. That will satisfy your color issues without being overly sweet.

You could try toasting a portion of the white wheat instead of using dark wheat. Pretty sure Lagunitas A Little Sumpin Sumpin has a portion of toasted wheat along with torrified wheat and basic wheat malt.

I would like to see 1 oz. of the dryhop moved to flameout.

You can nix this altogether:

1oz - Centennial - 60mins
1oz - Chinook - 30mins
1oz - Centennial - 15mins
1oz - Centennial - 10mins

...or combine/bolster the 15 or 0 minute additions with it.

So because of my lack of forethought, the Crystal 40 is pretty well mixed at the bottom of my already purchased bag already. How about just adding .25lbs of CaraAroma instead of the .5lb of Crystal 60 and leaving the 40?

So you're thinking more like?:

1oz - Warrior - FWH
1oz - Warrior - 60mins
1oz - Centennial - 15mins
2oz - Centennial - 10mins
2oz - Cascade - 5mins
2oz - Centennial - 0mins
3oz - Cascade - Dry
1oz - Centennial - Dry

Eliminated the Chinook, moved the 60min Centennial addition into the last 10mins, moved a Centennial dry hop into the last 10mins.
 
I would do everything possible (for my tastes at least) to keep the total cara- malt content below 7-8% of the grist... and that's pushing it. Depending on your goal for this beer, that may differ. But flavor should supersede color in that regard. There are IPAs on the market with 15% crystal, but I don't like any of them... maybe you do.

Are you using the same oz. for FWH as bittering? Or are you adding a fresh oz. to bittering?

Combine the Centennial at 15. No need to space it out at 15 & 10.
 
I would do everything possible (for my tastes at least) to keep the total cara- malt content below 7-8% of the grist... and that's pushing it. Depending on your goal for this beer, that may differ. But flavor should supersede color in that regard. There are IPAs on the market with 15% crystal, but I don't like any of them... maybe you do.

Are you using the same oz. for FWH as bittering? Or are you adding a fresh oz. to bittering?

Combine the Centennial at 15. No need to space it out at 15 & 10.

As is I don't have anything at 90mins, so how about I move the 60min Warrior addition to 90mins, so my first two additions would be 1oz Warrior - FWH, 1oz Warrior - 90mins. Next addition would be at 15mins with the Centennial.

With .5lbs of Caramel/Crystal 40 and .25lbs of CaraAroma I'll be at 4.5% of the grist.
 
He wants to get dryness from it. You won't really get that with 6-7 oz. honey in the bottling bucket as opposed to 8-15% in the total recipe pre-fermentation. Also, 2.5 vol carb is kinda high for an IPA. I go 1.8-2.1 vol carb with corn sugar at 2-1/2 weeks and I still get a good deal of carbonation. The hop aromas aren't washed away as much by the CO2 bubbles when you stay on the low to moderate side of carbonation. Plus, you get an improved mouthfeel that isn't to thin for a DIPA.

Good point but not necessarily true. Think of hops, adding 1 oz at flameout is not going to get the aroma as 1 oz dry hopping. As for the carb...like I said, I like them higher. Great point about the co2 and aroma though
 
Good point but not necessarily true. Think of hops, adding 1 oz at flameout is not going to get the aroma as 1 oz dry hopping.

Not really sure what that retort was a result of me saying, but I'll bite anywa... If you bypass the traditional flameout addition, this would be a null issue. For example, try adding the pellet hops during mid flameout, when the wort is approx. 150 F, for a 30-60 minute hopstand. With this method, more of the volatile oils, particularly myrcene, are not rapidly boiled off, and thus hold up far better and lend more aroma than the typical addition added immediately after "flameout". Try it some time. The results are outstanding.
 
Not really sure what that retort was a result of me saying, but I'll bite anywa... If you bypass the traditional flameout addition, this would be a null issue. For example, try adding the pellet hops during mid flameout, when the wort is approx. 150 F, for a 30-60 minute hopstand. With this method, more of the volatile oils, particularly myrcene, are not rapidly boiled off, and thus hold up far better and lend more aroma than the typical addition added immediately after "flameout". Try it some time. The results are outstanding.

Lol! I misread your post...to many union jacks last night. I don't even know what I was trying to say
 

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